Cynism in China
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bleepingbleeper
Reacher
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 231
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
July 02, 2009 - 11:31 PM |
 
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| tihZ_hO wrote: |
Chinese have 5000 years of unbroken history. China is the only civilisation in the world that its history, language and its culture can be traced from its earliest beginnings straight through the present.
Yes, 5000 years is a long time to still be behind the rest of the world. This is something not to brag about.  |
ouch. very ouch.
| Kiwi wrote: |
The age of the writing system is closer to 3500 years. . .
So 5000 years of 'unbroken history' is clearly garbage. 'History' requires a written record. |
Nice to see someone who remembers stuff we were taught in school. |
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leidelaohu
Board Lord
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 5751
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July 03, 2009 - 12:39 AM |
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| ziccawei wrote: |
I pointed out to a Chinese person that Stonehenge is believed by scientists (using carbon testing) to be more than 4,000 years old. 'Impossible', came the reply.
Chinese people have been spoon-fed the notion that China has 5,000 years of history while the rest of the world is still in nappies/diapers and they believe it 100%. |
The first heiroglyphs (writing, aka history, whether we can understand it or not) date to somewhere before 3100 B.C. The more advanced early dynasties date from about 3,000 B.C. The Great Pyramid was built in 2600 B.C. Cleopatra was queen of Egypt in Roman times. Looks like Egypt kicks good ol' China's ass pretty hard in the history sweepstakes. They were carving a few letters on bones while the Egyptians were building the pyramids.
I keep wondering ... if paper originated in China, why does the word come from "papyrus" ?
What's the oldest Chinese thing still in existence ? The Rainbow Hotel out in Hongqiao ? They have all these "historic" buildings from 1935. San Francisco has more historic buildings than all China and it wasn't even started until 1849.
| ziccawei wrote: |
Out of curiosity - beyond the vast range of burger joints, violent policemen and ball-busting girls, what is good about America?
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Seriously ? I miss food. Recreation. Entertainment. Manners. Business. Outdoors. Water, air, health. Stores where you can return stuff without spending an entire day arguing. Ethnic restaurants with ethnic cooks. Wild animals. Sidewalks without motorcycles. Quality.
It's not that the US is so great. It isn't. It's just that living off the edge of the bell-shaped curve here has tempered my opinion of the good things about civilization. The Planet of the Apes is fun for a while but eventually you'd like to talk to a human being. |
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Andreas
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 9140
Location: s/v Waratah
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July 03, 2009 - 01:34 AM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
| ziccawei wrote: |
I pointed out to a Chinese person that Stonehenge is believed by scientists (using carbon testing) to be more than 4,000 years old. 'Impossible', came the reply.
Chinese people have been spoon-fed the notion that China has 5,000 years of history while the rest of the world is still in nappies/diapers and they believe it 100%. |
The first heiroglyphs (writing, aka history, whether we can understand it or not) date to somewhere before 3100 B.C. The more advanced early dynasties date from about 3,000 B.C. The Great Pyramid was built in 2600 B.C. Cleopatra was queen of Egypt in Roman times. Looks like Egypt kicks good ol' China's ass pretty hard in the history sweepstakes. They were carving a few letters on bones while the Egyptians were building the pyramids.
I keep wondering ... if paper originated in China, why does the word come from "papyrus" ?
What's the oldest Chinese thing still in existence ? The Rainbow Hotel out in Hongqiao ? They have all these "historic" buildings from 1935. San Francisco has more historic buildings than all China and it wasn't even started until 1849.
| ziccawei wrote: |
Out of curiosity - beyond the vast range of burger joints, violent policemen and ball-busting girls, what is good about America?
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Seriously ? I miss food. Recreation. Entertainment. Manners. Business. Outdoors. Water, air, health. Stores where you can return stuff without spending an entire day arguing. Ethnic restaurants with ethnic cooks. Wild animals. Sidewalks without motorcycles. Quality.
It's not that the US is so great. It isn't. It's just that living off the edge of the bell-shaped curve here has tempered my opinion of the good things about civilization. The Planet of the Apes is fun for a while but eventually you'd like to talk to a human being. |
100% |
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Marakanis
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 2941
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July 03, 2009 - 01:58 AM |
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Also agree. Sidewalks without motorcycles... Seems like a far away dream now. |
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victorinchina
Board Royalty
Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 7075
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 07:40 AM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
Seriously ? I miss food. Recreation. Entertainment. Manners. Business. Outdoors. Water, air, health. Stores where you can return stuff without spending an entire day arguing. Ethnic restaurants with ethnic cooks. Wild animals. Sidewalks without motorcycles. Quality.
It's not that the US is so great. It isn't. It's just that living off the edge of the bell-shaped curve here has tempered my opinion of the good things about civilization. The Planet of the Apes is fun for a while but eventually you'd like to talk to a human being. |
Exactly! |
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handage
Newbie
Joined: July 01, 2009
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 09:27 AM |
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you can start by stop referring to us local Chinese as "them". we're all people, we've just grown up with different society expectations and norms. |
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jess11
Newbie
Joined: July 01, 2009
Posts: 5
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:04 AM |
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I completely agree with all of the above. Sometimes it's painful to just walk down the street, and I also find myself wanting to push and shove back all the time. I think that while China is beating the rest of the world in what I like to call "hard skills" (brains, money, technology, etc.), it's still falling behind in the "soft skills". So while many claim that China is soon going to take over the world, so to speak, I don't think this will ever happen until we see a complete transformation in the people here. Maybe this won't happen for another hundred years, but for the sake of humanity, let's try to avoid adopting such crude behavior. |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:28 AM |
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Despite its many institutional forms, the function and structure of ideology is unchanging and present throughout history;[52] as Althusser states, "ideology has no history".[53] All ideologies constitute a subject, even though he or she may differ according to each particular ideology. Memorably, Althusser illustrates this with the concept of "hailing" or "interpellation".[54] He uses the example of an individual walking in a street: upon hearing a policeman shout "Hey you there!", the individual responds by turning around and in this simple movement of his body he is transformed into a subject.[55] The person being hailed recognizes himself as the subject of the hail, and knows to respond. Even though there was nothing suspicious about his walking in the street, he recognizes it is indeed he himself that is being hailed.[56] This recognition is a mis-recognition (méconnaissance)[57] in that it is working retroactively: a material individual is always-already an ideological subject, even before he is born.[58] The "transformation" of an individual into a subject has always-already happened; Althusser acknowledges here a debt toward Spinoza's theory of immanence.[59] To highlight this, Althusser offers the example of Christian religious ideology, embodied in the Voice of God, instructing a person on what his place in the world is and what he must do to be reconciled with Christ.[60] From this, Althusser draws the point that in order for that person to identify himself as a Christian, he must first already be a subject; that is to say, by responding to God's call, by following His rules, he is affirming himself as a free agent, the author of the acts for which he assumes responsibility.[61] For Althusser, we acquire our identities by seeing ourselves mirrored in ideologies,[62] and it is by being subjected ourselves that we become subjects.[63]
Lifted straight from Wikipedia...
Althusser was an interesting f*cker. |
_________________
Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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tomnoddy_uk
Wonder Wit
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 3509
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July 03, 2009 - 10:35 AM |
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| jess11 wrote: |
| I completely agree with all of the above. Sometimes it's painful to just walk down the street, and I also find myself wanting to push and shove back all the time. I think that while China is beating the rest of the world in what I like to call "hard skills" (brains, money, technology, etc.), it's still falling behind in the "soft skills". So while many claim that China is soon going to take over the world, so to speak, I don't think this will ever happen until we see a complete transformation in the people here. Maybe this won't happen for another hundred years, but for the sake of humanity, let's try to avoid adopting such crude behavior. |
I would think you would get the same impression of the UK, or any other country, if you walked around certain city centres. |
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Not everyone who chased the zebra caught it, but he who caught it, chased it. |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:39 AM |
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^ Precisely.
Good point, Tom. |
_________________
Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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victorinchina
Board Royalty
Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 7075
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:40 AM |
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| jess11 wrote: |
| I think that while China is beating the rest of the world in what I like to call "hard skills" (brains, money, technology, etc.), |
Completely disagree about the hard skills. Well, maybe money we can agree on.
If you replace, brains and technology with human resources, then it sounds more like it |
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victorinchina
Board Royalty
Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 7075
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:44 AM |
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@ Tom... You're right. I think we got 1 or 2 streets in DK that would give you that impression too |
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tomnoddy_uk
Wonder Wit
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 3509
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July 03, 2009 - 10:45 AM |
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I don't get why people get so frustrated here. For every thing one may find frustrating, there is something ridiculous going on that you cannot help but smile at. You don't get that in too many places. EG - some guy letting rip at a policeman because he got puilled over. Appreciate the good things as well as the bad. |
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Not everyone who chased the zebra caught it, but he who caught it, chased it. |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:48 AM |
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^ Precisely again.
There's a lot of good in Shanghai/China, but if you continue to look for the bad that may say more about you as a person than the country you are in. |
_________________
Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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victorinchina
Board Royalty
Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 7075
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 10:53 AM |
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^ You're right. For me it comes in waves... If I start getting annoyed about the little things, all of a sudden everything pisses me off. Then it's time for a reset. Luckily I found out years ago back home how to do that...
^^  Try that back home, and you'll get a 15" Maglite shoved up where the sun don't shine... |
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KarmaComa
Seeker
Joined: June 10, 2009
Posts: 41
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 11:22 AM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
Seriously ? I miss food. Recreation. Entertainment. Manners. Business. Outdoors. Water, air, health. Stores where you can return stuff without spending an entire day arguing. Ethnic restaurants with ethnic cooks. Wild animals. Sidewalks without motorcycles. Quality.
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Wow! zhilaohu waxes sentimental.
You know, the US is still great despite all the current problems. If you look around at your small circle of existence and ignore the political BS, the quality of life is still great.
Oh yeah, it must have been a long time since you went back home because it's hard to find ethnic restaurants that don't employ mexican cooks. My favorite Greek and Chinese restaurants back home have Mexicans doing all the cooking now. Sign o' the times. |
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Marakanis
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 2941
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July 03, 2009 - 11:30 AM |
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| KarmaComa wrote: |
Oh yeah, it must have been a long time since you went back home because it's hard to find ethnic restaurants that don't employ mexican cooks. My favorite Greek and Chinese restaurants back home have Mexicans doing all the cooking now. Sign o' the times. |
Sure, but back home at least the Mexican food is made by Mexicans. =P
Not to mention that if you want authentic cuisine, there's a Chinatown, little Tokyo, and any number of ethnically oriented areas you can go to find it. |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 11:33 AM |
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Mexican food is made by Mexicans here if you know where to go. |
_________________
Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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Andreas
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 9140
Location: s/v Waratah
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July 03, 2009 - 11:37 AM |
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| ziccawei wrote: |
| Mexican food is made by Mexicans here if you know where to go. |
Mate, they are all in quarantine. |
_________________
How do you make a small fortune? Start with a big fortune, and buy a boat. |
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Marakanis
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 2941
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July 03, 2009 - 11:40 AM |
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| Andreas wrote: |
| ziccawei wrote: |
| Mexican food is made by Mexicans here if you know where to go. |
Mate, they are all in quarantine. |
What do they do with the bodies?
Mexican food is Mexican PEOPLE!!! Aieee! |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 11:41 AM |
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So I guess the guys that were cooking in the place I was in the other night were Puerto Ricans or maybe Cubans.
Say hello to my little burrito... |
_________________
Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4693
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
July 03, 2009 - 11:43 AM |
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| jess11 wrote: |
| ... I think that while China is beating the rest of the world in what I like to call "hard skills" (brains, money, technology, etc.), it's still falling behind in the "soft skills".... |
That's some funny stuff right there. You think Chinese have more brains, more money and more tech than the rest of the world? Obviously you haven't met the same jokers that I've met. The advantage China has is that there are more people, and that most of them are dirt poor and so therefore have no-where to go but up.
Smarter, better, harder working ... hardly. |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 11:48 AM |
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hang on......
Did dfoo just dis China and Chinese people??
WTF?? |
_________________
Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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victorinchina
Board Royalty
Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 7075
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2009 - 12:05 PM |
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^ And yesterday Platty said "bitch"
We should enjoy the last few days now...... I hear horses coming.. |
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Andreas
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 9140
Location: s/v Waratah
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| Posted:
July 03, 2009 - 12:42 PM |
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| victorinchina wrote: |
| jess11 wrote: |
| I think that while China is beating the rest of the world in what I like to call "hard skills" (brains, money, technology, etc.), |
Completely disagree about the hard skills. Well, maybe money we can agree on.
If you replace, brains and technology with human resources, then it sounds more like it |
Churning out heaps of copied products with bad quality, with total disregard of environment or working conditions, only because there's an abundance of cheap labour, can hardly be seen as an achievement in the long run.
Other countries, like Japan and Korea, moved on from there. Here it will take a lot longer, if ever. |
_________________
How do you make a small fortune? Start with a big fortune, and buy a boat. |
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