Taiwan Vs China : Wow, what a difference.
Tags : property, business, travel, technology, nightlife, events, food, food, expat_services
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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 Posted:
Aug 22, 2009 - 09:44 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Taiwan Vs China : Wow, what a difference. |
So I've been in Taiwan for the past week. I pretty much expected it to be exactly the same as China. Holy crap was I ever wrong.
People are so helpful here. They really understand what service means. Generally speaking, just walking down the street you see people smiling or looking generally peaceful. In Shanghai everyone had this mean glower or this sideways stare where it looked like they were wondering how they could best cheat you out of money.
My first week in Shanghai they tried to scam me several times. In Taiwan I have yet to have someone even approach me unless they were helping me find what I was looking for.
The streets are cleaner, the water doesn't taste like swamp mud, the bathrooms have tissues, tp, soap and running water. The people are generally nice, you don't hear constant horn honking on the streets (though the driving isn't any better). The only people who stare at me are kids under the age of 5 and I've seen all of 2 other white people the entire week I've been here.
So, what the hell, Shanghai? You think mainland China is better than Taiwan? Not... even... close.
I'm job hunting in Taiwan now. Cross your fingers for me. ;D |
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ziccawei
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 6795
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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Aug 22, 2009 - 09:56 PM |
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Good. Piss off.
Haha! Not really.
I went to Taiwan (Taipei) years ago and it was a total dump. The most polluted place I've ever been to in my life.
I hear it's much better now. Got no intention of seeing for myself. |
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We had access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by little, we went insane. |
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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Aug 22, 2009 - 10:04 PM |
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I don't know what happened between your visit and mine, but Shanghai could sure use a bit of it. |
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ziccawei
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 6795
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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Aug 22, 2009 - 10:20 PM |
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Me making only a six-month visit?
I would walk down the street in Taipei and a whole group of people would follow me. They had these weird places called MTV hotels. And these two huge discoteques called Kiss and Buffalo Town. I met about six foreigners in total and they were all in the hostel I stayed at for six months. I thought Hong Kong was like a freak show zoo when I got there the first time, but it made Taipei look like a really good/bad acid trip.
McDonalds had just opened there and in each cheeseburger was a thin layer of rice. You could buy beer in vending machines on the street - how freakin' cool is that?
Shanghai is about as different or interesting as my blog. |
_________________
We had access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by little, we went insane. |
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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Aug 22, 2009 - 10:29 PM |
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They still have beer in vending machines. I get the distinct impression that they're imitating Japan... We'll see, since I'm heading out there soon too. =) |
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yinvincible
Talker
Joined: May 21, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Shanghai, Xu Jia Hui
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Aug 23, 2009 - 07:53 PM |
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It all depends on how you see it...when I was in Taipei, I've met with some very rude salespeople too (even when I'm all friendly and polite), whereas here in Shanghai, they've been quite customer oriented so far. It really depends on what you want to see... and don't forget Shanghai has a lot of migrants, and some aren't that educated, so just have to get used to it. |
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Seeking Originality In A Copycat World |
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WGZ
Squeeker
Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Posts: 12
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2009 - 09:59 PM |
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It really depend what part of Taipei you are in.
Some part of Taipei look like Pudong while some part look like the rural part of shanghai |
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bleepingbleeper
Ranter
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 504
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2009 - 05:34 PM |
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the taiwanese do take after japan b/c the island was occupied by the japanese for some time. so you'll see more japanese-friendly tendencies in the stuff you buy there.
taiwanese are also more traveled, and i'd dare say more educated as a whole. i mean, they live on a tiny island, so many people go abroad for vacations, schooling, and business. they're not as restricted in travel as the chinese are, so that's probably why they don't stare as much at foreigners.
plus, they see them all the time on TV - they have channels that exclusively show american TV programs like CSI, supernatural, etc, have discovery channel, hbo, cnn, etc - all in english.
the taiwanese are also very health-conscious (though safety sometimes still a problem - yes there's a difference) and they do help their neighbors.
i think taipei's air is still better than most places i've been in china. but in some places, due to the motorcycle traffic and the small streets and close buildings, the vehicle exhaust does get trapped sometimes and can get noxious.
the water - the government says the tap is okay to drink directly, but everyone still boils or filters their tap water for drinking. anyway, it makes me feel better about using it to brush my teeth.
the weather gets pretty bad sometimes though, particularly in the spring and summer - hot, very humid, and typhoons. if you're not used to humid weather, you will sweat your balls off walking outside in the summer, more b/c of the humidity than the heat.
the best thing about taipei, though, is the night market food. plenty of variety and i don't recall getting sick after eating any of it. a lot of taiwanese people in the states go back for vacations just for this. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4693
Status: Offline
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Aug 26, 2009 - 06:52 AM |
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What? Kiwi hasn't come on to go on and on about how great Taiwan is yet?! |
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fdupchek
Talker
Joined: Aug 24, 2009
Posts: 82
Status: Offline
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Aug 26, 2009 - 01:46 PM |
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I went to Taipei for a week last year and also noticed some striking differences. The subways were very quiet even at rush hour- there is propaganda on the subway walls reminding people to keep their voices down and cell phone use to a minimum. No matter how packed the subway was, noone dared to sit in the "handicapped" seats.
People stood on the right of the escalators and let people walk past on the left.
The salespeople I encountered were genuinely interested in proper customer service- even for a fast food meal. I would get my coffee every morning at some donut shop and the servers were all smiles and friendly.
Several of the chains- including Ding Tai Fung- were using alcohol to sanitize the tables and the restaurants in general were very clean.
As I walked the streets and subway with my map, I was approached by locals askng if I needed help or directions.
I was with a group waiting my turn in line to visit one of the sites when a group of tourists (mainlanders?) cut in front of me. Immediately the people behind me started harrassing them until they left and went to the back of the line. There is a sense of collective responsibility that you dont find on the mainland. The gentleman I was visiting scolded a teenager who had thrown a wrapper on the sidewalk. The kid turned around to pick up his trash.
Best of all, there is a massive island-wide smoking cessation campaign that is working very well. I encountered very few smokers, mostly old men.
Its a different world over there. |
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Mr Totomolo
FooJay
Joined: June 21, 2008
Posts: 1714
Location: Shanghai & Taipei
Status: Offline
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Aug 30, 2009 - 11:08 PM |
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| ziccawei wrote: |
Me making only a six-month visit?
I would walk down the street in Taipei and a whole group of people would follow me. They had these weird places called MTV hotels. And these two huge discoteques called Kiss and Buffalo Town. I met about six foreigners in total and they were all in the hostel I stayed at for six months. I thought Hong Kong was like a freak show zoo when I got there the first time, but it made Taipei look like a really good/bad acid trip.
McDonalds had just opened there and in each cheeseburger was a thin layer of rice. You could buy beer in vending machines on the street - how freakin' cool is that?
Shanghai is about as different or interesting as my blog. |
You know what, Zicca ? It is because you are an ancestor...
I have news for you : the kiss disco underground the huge crumbling Thai hotel : gone, and going to be replaced by a glittering Westin 5 ++ hotel.
Buffalo Town: ahhh, gosh, only the people who have been in Taipei before 1985 know this name... It was on the 12th floor of a run-down building in the middle of Lin sen north road.. one guy was checking on ground floor if the police were coming... then in last than one minute, they would fill the dancing place with tables anc hairs, like an inocent bar... and have you been at the corner of lin sen north road and minsheng east road ? waouww.. where the Gloria hotel stands now, there was a bar, down to the basement, 3 pool tables and mountain of beer cases...knock on the almost invisible door, and behind the door: waouww Macau and Vgeas united, 3 rows of slot machines "imported" piece by piece by the Taiching mafia
Buffalo Town went down after a foreigner took 2 knive stabs in the back for having tried to lure away the gf of a local gang boss
Nice memories... now, all is aspetized, and when I drive from my home to Hsinyi district, if not for the road signs written in chinese, I could be well driving on the circular boulevard outside Paris or in any other western city |
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Mr Totomolo
FooJay
Joined: June 21, 2008
Posts: 1714
Location: Shanghai & Taipei
Status: Offline
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Aug 30, 2009 - 11:26 PM |
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After the "back to the future" flash, some facts for the present:
Marakanis, the economy in Taiwan is not as good as you think; it is not for nothing that about 1 million Taiwanese people live and work in China
It is true that the government, specially during the 2 terms of the DPP president, have emphasized some "social progress" specially in minorities, women protection and environment.
But most Taiwanese still scoff at many superficial actions:
example: ok we have to sort our garbage, the plastic, metal, paper and then organic trash..It is started like a good idea, but for example if somebody buys a can of italian ravioli in sauce, he has to wash the can before discarding it...so we protect the environment by recycling the can, but we waste 2 liters of water to wash it first...
As for the remarks about politeness, order, in subway or elsewhere: you got it wrong...
Taiwanese "work" exactly with same principle as chinese: it is all about avoiding to pay money, in fines for example.
You ride your motorbike without helmet: 500 nt$ ticket.. You think taiwanese like to ride under 38C with helmet? nooo but they hate to pay (now go to Hualien and watch how many people ride without helmet)
same for subway: 5000 nt$ if you drink or eat inside the subway...same for the smoking ban now...
But mainland chinese people are same: 2 jiao for a plastic bag in supermarket, and everybody brings his recycled bag
The only thing where Taiwanese beat the chinese is the respect for the customer: tonight, I went to 85C shop behind my compound in Xizang lu; it is clean, bright, stocked with expensive cakes and full of people 24/7.... 24/7 : I never thought I would see this in China for a cake shop...This is what the taiwanese will teach to the chinese, willfully, or by force
Mariachis: I will be back after 12 september in Taipei..let me know if you need help (see I am not a bad guy  ) |
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shanghaiceltic
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Perth WA
Status: Offline
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Aug 31, 2009 - 07:14 AM |
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I go to Taiwan several times a year as part of my business trips and I like Taiwan. Service is good, the people pleasant. On my last trip we drove from Kaohsiung to Taipei as we had several meetings on the way. Driving was fine, none of the sphincter clenching experiences I had living in Shanghai. |
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I have parrallel bars at home, one for gin and one for whiskey |
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bleepingbleeper
Ranter
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 504
Status: Offline
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Aug 31, 2009 - 04:33 PM |
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| Mr Totomolo wrote: |
Taiwanese "work" exactly with same principle as chinese: it is all about avoiding to pay money, in fines for example.
You ride your motorbike without helmet: 500 nt$ ticket.. You think taiwanese like to ride under 38C with helmet? nooo but they hate to pay (now go to Hualien and watch how many people ride without helmet)
same for subway: 5000 nt$ if you drink or eat inside the subway...same for the smoking ban now...
But mainland chinese people are same: 2 jiao for a plastic bag in supermarket, and everybody brings his recycled bag
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actually, it is like this everywhere. lots of people in the states wouldn't wear helmets or safety belts unless threatened by law or with fines. same with the "don't mess with texas" anti-littering campaign, threatening fines for littering.
but most people in the states don't litter as a matter of habit - it's a matter of social consciousness. i think the same can be said of most taiwanese, and about more than just littering. if you watch the taiwanese news, they have tons of mundane stories about toys or other consumer products being safety hazards, unsafe foods, etc. it shows that they care about these things.
can't say the same for china where most people just sweep the trash off their doorstep b/c once it's outside their house, even though it's right outside their door, it's no longer their problem. where unless your defective product is killing babies or people by the millions, it's not yet a cause for concern or recall.
by the way, i still see plenty of local chinese buy plastic bags at the grocery stores in the town i currently live in. definitely more than those that bring their own reusable bags. |
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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Aug 31, 2009 - 08:22 PM |
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Heh... And then I went to Japan, which made Taiwan look like mainland China. =P
Holy crap I've never run into more polite people. If you're lost, they don't just point you in a direction, they physically walk you to the entrance. There's very little littering, the streets are damned clean (even in very busy areas), people step to the left side of the escalator to allow people to get by (and it happened in every single place, not just here and there). Even their damn money was clean and straight... And they won't let that touch their counters, no, they have little leather placemats that the money goes on so it doesn't touch the counters.
You know how in China you can't get a napkin to save your life? In Japan they hand out tissues in the streets for FREE with little advertisments on them. I had more tissues than I knew what to do with.
And hot towels before meals... YES! Everyone should do that! Not just rib joints, America!!!
Oi... I miss Japan already.
I'm going to start learning Japanese. |
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Neville_Bartos
Reacher
Joined: July 22, 2009
Posts: 318
Location: Behind you
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Aug 31, 2009 - 09:10 PM |
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Everyone falls in love with Japan when they go there. Lived there a long time ago, loved it, still miss it, want to go back  |
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shanghaiceltic
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Perth WA
Status: Offline
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Sep 01, 2009 - 09:34 AM |
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Lived in Mejiro, Tokyo for 2 years. And yes the Japanese have politeness down to an art. I spoke standard Japanese but never learnt keigo which is the ultra polite language used to address customers and your bosses.
Easy to see who is the boss in a group. Those doing the almost reflexive bows to the one who simply bends from the waist are not the boss.
It did have its down side, if there were problems with equipment and you had a meeting about it, the conversation went in ever decreasing circles until you got to the nub of the problem. Often took ages.
Mainland Chinese on the otherhand are straight in your face. Much quicker. |
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I have parrallel bars at home, one for gin and one for whiskey |
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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Sep 01, 2009 - 10:12 AM |
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| shanghaiceltic wrote: |
It did have its down side, if there were problems with equipment and you had a meeting about it, the conversation went in ever decreasing circles until you got to the nub of the problem. Often took ages.
Mainland Chinese on the otherhand are straight in your face. Much quicker. |
Have to disagree there. If there are problems with equipment in China, it's the same ever decreasing circles, but in China they're all claiming it's not their fault. Saw that many times. =P |
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bleepingbleeper
Ranter
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 504
Status: Offline
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Sep 01, 2009 - 10:57 AM |
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| Marakanis wrote: |
| shanghaiceltic wrote: |
It did have its down side, if there were problems with equipment and you had a meeting about it, the conversation went in ever decreasing circles until you got to the nub of the problem. Often took ages.
Mainland Chinese on the otherhand are straight in your face. Much quicker. |
Have to disagree there. If there are problems with equipment in China, it's the same ever decreasing circles, but in China they're all claiming it's not their fault. Saw that many times. =P |
in my china experience, if you have a meeting with just one team about the problem, then they will usually go straight to how to resolve the problem.
if you have a meeting with multiple teams, then they will play the blame-game indefinitely until you steer their attention to solving the problem at hand. |
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JasUK
Talker
Joined: July 11, 2006
Posts: 78
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 20, 2009 - 03:42 PM |
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| yinvincible wrote: |
| It all depends on how you see it...when I was in Taipei, I've met with some very rude salespeople too (even when I'm all friendly and polite), whereas here in Shanghai, they've been quite customer oriented so far. |
Customer service in Shanghai is appalling even in the European stores such as Tesco, Carrefour local stores are very bad anyway maybe i shop in the wrong area.
Taiwan is generally good i have experienced as it strong connections to Japan and Japanse are extremely polite and helpful. [/video] |
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SnappySammy
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 15136
Status: Offline
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Oct 17, 2009 - 04:12 AM |
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Republic of China vs Peoples Republic of China.....Apples and Oranges... |
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expat93
Talker
Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 77
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Oct 21, 2009 - 02:01 PM |
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My wife and I lived in Taichung (central) Taiwan for several years and we both loved living there. We try not to compare our past life in Taichung to our current life Shanghai, but it is difficult.
The cost of living in Taichung was about half, the quality of life almost double, the locals were very friendly and you could actually drive a car, if you wanted to, but corrupton was everywhere and the number of resturants was severly limited when you look at the number of western and foreign friendly venues we have in Shanghai.
I am glad to be in Shanghai, but I do miss the quality of life in Taichung. |
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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Oct 21, 2009 - 03:26 PM |
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SB? What are you talking about? When posting on the expat forums, you need to be sure you can post in English. =P |
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tanyeewei
Talker
Joined: Apr 02, 2009
Posts: 118
Status: Offline
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Oct 21, 2009 - 04:14 PM |
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It's always amusing to see the Chinese worked up into an incoherent frenzy when foreigners criticise their country and steal their women. |
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Marakanis
Wonder Wit
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 3851
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Oct 21, 2009 - 04:52 PM |
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| tanyeewei wrote: |
| It's always amusing to see the Chinese worked up into an incoherent frenzy when foreigners criticise their country and steal their women. |
Mmm... it's difficult to steal something when it has its own mind, chooses to be with you instead of their local options, and really has no interest in being with the local options. =P
I mean, the very idea that it's theft implies that the women here are possessions, which speaks to a whole other reason why they may be looking elsewhere... |
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