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ggh
PopStar
Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 1096
Location: Shanghai, Puxi
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Oct 10, 2009 - 05:36 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Company is unfair |
My company told me that I am only entitled to 60 days maternity leave as opposed to the normal china law of 3 mths + 0.5 (for late delivery) + 0.5 (for c section). Just because i am foreigner and its in my employment contract. How the heck would i know this when i sign the contract? I never compared the contract between chinese and non-chinese. They are so unfair. I am so upset now. |
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Opinions are like Ass-Hole... Everybody has one |
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Kirishima
Barker
Joined: Oct 22, 2008
Posts: 175
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 05:42 PM |
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A contract can't include things that are contrary to national law. If you question it, they will back down, eventually. The law is the law, especially employment law. Just up to you whether you are going to challenge it or not! |
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xiaotiqin
Lurker
Joined: Mar 15, 2008
Posts: 35
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 06:03 PM |
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Rules for foreigner contracts can be different. Are you not paid more than your Chinese colleagues? My company just got maternity leave added into foreigner contracts this year -- after 5 years in business! (also for 2 months max by the way) Do you not get some other perks that your Chinese colleagues don't? |
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still_here
Rocker
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 709
Location: XinZhuang
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 06:04 PM |
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One of the things that come with experience.
When i signed my contract, there was a clause "As a managerial level employee you would have to put in overtime as and when required without additional compensation". Being used to put in unpaid OT in my previous firm, i accepted only to find out that EVERY Chinese gets paid for OT but not the laowais! Its actually in the HR manual!
Sorry but nothing useful to add except Congratulations! |
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All the desirable things in life are either illegal, banned, expensive ,fattening or in love with someone else! |
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still_here
Rocker
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 709
Location: XinZhuang
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 06:06 PM |
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| xiaotiqin wrote: |
| Rules for foreigner contracts can be different. Are you not paid more than your Chinese colleagues? My company just got maternity leave added into foreigner contracts this year -- after 5 years in business! (also for 2 months max by the way) Do you not get some other perks that your Chinese colleagues don't? |
Yeah!
I also heard it takes a Chinese more time to push out a kid compared to a laowai!
Retard! |
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All the desirable things in life are either illegal, banned, expensive ,fattening or in love with someone else! |
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Cambronne
Post Roaster
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 4217
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Oct 10, 2009 - 06:47 PM |
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I confirm that labour law also applies to foreigners esp in such sensitive area as maternity leave. Nothing to so with how much you get paid etc. Maternity leave is not a perk. I dont see what the company can argue. |
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still_here
Rocker
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 709
Location: XinZhuang
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 07:03 PM |
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| Cambronne wrote: |
| I confirm that labour law also applies to foreigners esp in such sensitive area as maternity leave. |
Not sure about the law but the problem is, even if she gets what she deserves it will create enough bad blood to say ciao to her future prospects in the company.
Thats why i gave the analogy above. Once you sign a contract you have to stick by it or you are effectively dishonoring your own words (i don't give a toss about the company policies/ ethics etc. Mine are stricter than those of most MNCs here).
| Cambronne wrote: |
| Nothing to so with how much you get paid etc. |
I know. I was referring to the policy: Paid OT for locals only! No way is that reasonable. |
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All the desirable things in life are either illegal, banned, expensive ,fattening or in love with someone else! |
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lideting482
Seeker
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 66
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 07:51 PM |
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Although the labour law and employment law apply to all the people, no matter Chinese or foreigners, Shanghai has its local rules governing the employment of foreigners. Such rules say the parties to a employment contract can agree upon the terms of the contract and some judges (if not all) still refer to such rules when they try a case. |
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Renovator
FooJay
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 1634
Location: Century Park & MA,USA
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 08:31 PM |
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And may as well remember that life is unfair. There will always be someone wealthier, healthier, thinner, wiser, poorer, sicker, and fatter than you. |
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caffe1962
Reacher
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 223
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 09:01 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Company is unfair |
also if you are expat, but you have a regular working permit, you are protect below the chinese law, ( there is also write on the working licenses )
follow the chinese law also if you signe a contract that exemple say that you are no intitle to get the overtime, if there is any complain to the labour court the contract will be cancel because broken the chinese law ( that say the overtime must be paid 2 time the hours done ) and you will be protect by the labour court
I know well this because he happen to me, after years ago i change place and the company was no agree, they wont cut me too much money, so we go to labour court for the overtime case and I win, also if the contraxc was signe that i suppose no have extra money for the overtime, but with the punch card register all the overtime i get the win, and also i was discovery that they pay the tzx for me only 10% of the amount in the contract and they get big trouble
and i get informed well that also if i was expat all the law are the same for me as for the chinese, if the company say different is because they try to cheat you and save money..
good luck |
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janlynn
Post Roaster
Joined: July 19, 2005
Posts: 4118
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Oct 10, 2009 - 09:07 PM |
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Chinese tradition has it the mother stays in bed for one month after birth and doesn't bathe for that amount of time. She then needs the extra time to get her strength back up to par to be able to work the many hours they are required. Most laowai women don't follow that schedule. I don't think locals get air fare home or 4 weeks vacation as many foreigners do. |
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Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead |
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kamote
Raver
Joined: May 21, 2005
Posts: 464
Location: shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 09:15 PM |
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ggh, if your contract stated about the maternity leaves of so and so days/months and you signed it, then maybe you did not read it before you signed.
if it is not stated in the contract then you have to refer to the last part of your contract where it says about following the labor law.
off-topic
xiaotiqin, please do not use the argument of laowai being paid more than locals or having more perks and benefits than locals. each one have their own abilities and contracts. if the local accepted what has been offered and signed the contract then it is to be. if you dont like it then it is your fault and do not blame the laowai.
i have always been compared by many locals including my colleagues for my higher salary than theirs. "why is that?" they wonder. well, it is because i sell myself not because i am a foreigner but because of what i can do, my abilities and skills. that is what my company is paying me. that is why i have this and that a little more than the others. |
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something nice... |
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still_here
Rocker
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 709
Location: XinZhuang
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 09:21 PM |
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just a btw...
if u got something lined up or u just don't care, fight!
*now where is that i hate china thread? |
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All the desirable things in life are either illegal, banned, expensive ,fattening or in love with someone else! |
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Havard
Reacher
Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 359
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 09:28 PM |
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| Cambronne wrote: |
| I confirm that labour law also applies to foreigners esp in such sensitive area as maternity leave. Nothing to so with how much you get paid etc. Maternity leave is not a perk. I dont see what the company can argue. |
Agreed, as the law says it. But in real practice (arbitration), the interpretation is different. Check what kind of legal entity is hiring you. If it is a China based COMPANY (instead of a rep. office), your chances to be protected by the labor law etc. will be higher.
There are two major laws (labor law and labor contract law) and a number of regulations (local and nation wide) that supplements the laws. The maternity leave section is mentioned in labor law, which is about ten years old, while the newly enforced labor law says nothing about maternity leave. There are some gaps among those laws and regulations. It is not easy to fight for this right. |
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condesa
Raver
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Posts: 423
Location: JingAn Hood
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 11:00 PM |
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| still_here wrote: |
One of the things that come with experience.
When i signed my contract, there was a clause "As a managerial level employee you would have to put in overtime as and when required without additional compensation". Being used to put in unpaid OT in my previous firm, i accepted only to find out that EVERY Chinese gets paid for OT but not the laowais! Its actually in the HR manual!
Sorry but nothing useful to add except Congratulations! |
F&CK ME, I just signed contract for one year. Why didn't you post this 30 days ago  |
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Zak101
FooJay
Joined: Jan 20, 2003
Posts: 1608
Location: 苏州 Suzhou
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 11:02 PM |
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@ caffe1962
"....Chinese law (that says the overtime must be paid 2 times the hours done)."
Very, very Interesting. On topic as "Company is unfair".
Myself and Laowai colleagues were gifted with a generous 3 days off over the last bout of October Holidays, and salaries are delayed until 12 Oct. Parallel outfits like EF and Web Laowai staff got 8 + pre-paid salaries.
Mrs. Chinese Zak got a nice 8 day consecutive break, but a day to work before the festivities and today for a make-up.
I like the double time concept - seems there's something *cough* forgotten here for overtime. It's time for a really serious chat. |
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DrShanghai
Raver
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Posts: 425
Location: everywhere
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:29 AM |
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Here is the deal, the laowai get paid more becuase they do Ten times the work!
Just go to carrefour, and look at all the girls standing around gossiping(They would be fired on the spot in most western countries), I counted 8 just in one little area, when my wife who is Chinese ask them were something, was they had no Bloody idea. That's the way it is here. |
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ggh
PopStar
Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 1096
Location: Shanghai, Puxi
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:36 AM |
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Thanks all for the answers. I will not argue abt this with my company as I have signed the contract. But at the time of signing, I did not know the maternity benefits in china. I felt it is unfair. Another few things to add:
1. I am not getting expat package. I am getting a local package. No special perks or higher pay.
2. I have already lose out on the chinese perks of getting retirement benefits, housing, etc. I am not complaining abt that as I am not entitled.
3. I pay china tax.
4. I work hard, much more than the local chinese because I attended night conf calls with the US team (just because I can communicated better in english) and without OT. I never complain about that.
5. Now, I am not getting the normal maternity leaves.
I am working for a US based MNC and I am really cheap labor to my company - given the pay i am getting and the work I do.
It's ok. I plan to slack from today onwards, since I'm preggie, I guess they can't fire me. Contract expires Oct 2010. I guess after that, it's Bye Bye company! |
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Opinions are like Ass-Hole... Everybody has one |
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compsolutions
PopStar
Joined: Mar 07, 2009
Posts: 1103
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:44 AM |
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For what its worth, Chinese labour law cannot be overridden in a contract.
If they try to get out of giving you maternity leave, go to the labour bureau and complain.
Thats illegal on their part.
No ifs, buts or whatevers, its illegal, and the labour bureau *will* enforce that.
Shanghai Labour Bureau - Tel: 12333.
The Shanghai Expatriates Employment Resource, jointly sponsored by the local labour bureau and the Shanghai Foreigner Employment Centre: 6365 0095 |
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China Hosting, IT Support - http://www.computersolutions.cn | Web Design - http://design.computersolutions.cn | iPhones, Fridge Lingo Magnets (Talking to your Ayi, Sex in the City...) and other cool stuff - http://www.iwantone.cn |
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Chrisse
SuperStar
Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1323
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 11:05 AM |
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| ggh wrote: |
| It's ok. I plan to slack from today onwards, since I'm preggie, I guess they can't fire me. Contract expires Oct 2010. I guess after that, it's Bye Bye company! |
Well, if you think that they will not extend your contract anyway I would definitely do as compsolutions suggests. |
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Kirishima
Barker
Joined: Oct 22, 2008
Posts: 175
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:13 PM |
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Sometimes we have to make a choice, between what is easy and what is right. You are the Emily Pankhurst of Shanghai, fight it for the sake of your fellow sex, and in the interests of self-worth. This is the health of you and your baby we're talking about, not some OT here and there.
It is not just wrong, it's illegal. Your contract is invalid, as it included things contrary to the law!! |
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still_here
Rocker
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 709
Location: XinZhuang
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:23 PM |
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| ggh wrote: |
| It's ok. I plan to slack from today onwards, since I'm preggie, I guess they can't fire me. |
sounds disgraceful!
don't you get morning sicknes et al? call in sick with prescription ready. you must be covered under the local healthcare plan? 
| ggh wrote: |
| Contract expires Oct 2010. I guess after that, it's Bye Bye company! |
enjoy! |
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All the desirable things in life are either illegal, banned, expensive ,fattening or in love with someone else! |
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cantcheckemailnopw
FooJay
Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: 1631
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:43 PM |
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Yes, unfair! They expect you to follow the contract you signed? |
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Shangstar
Low Seater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 3403
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:36 PM |
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I recall the employment license that is used to get the work permit says that once the latter is issued, the foreigner has the full protection of Chinese labour laws. So I dont think those laws can be diluted just because you earn more than locals - i mean if it did mean this, where would you draw the line? How much is too much? You should tell your employer that you're taking your Chinese entitlement. But if things go wrong with your job in the future, dont expect them to reciprocate any differently by sticking to the letter of the law. Presume you have a work permit. |
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The Vatican is against surrogate mothers. Good thing they didn't have that rule when Jesus was born... |
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Zak101
FooJay
Joined: Jan 20, 2003
Posts: 1608
Location: 苏州 Suzhou
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 02:21 PM |
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Excellent heads up CS & SS, esp. with the phone numbers. Thanks ! |
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The luckiest guy in China ! http://lucky-jamieson.com Try your luck. |
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