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MaomingMaster
Board Legend
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 11059
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Oct 20, 2004 - 10:13 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Has Shanghai changed you in any way? |
Asia does weird things to a person's head and Shanghai (being the most frustration-inducing city in the world) has probably caused a personality shift (however slight) in most Sh.Ex. poster's heads. I know that this town has changed me - I think for the worst.
Before I came here I was a pretty tolerant kind of person - I've lived in different kinds of places and I found it easy to do a chameleon act and meld in.
I've accepted many things in Shanghai - things that outside of this place I would not be able to accept. Let's not get into that...
But this town has made me much more brutal to other people. I find that I'm getting more and more stoic in certain issues and much more stubborn. In certain cases I refuse to budge and just sit there like a petulant child.
For example, yesterday I had to go to a meeting - it was a bullfeces meeting that didn't even require me to be there, so that put me in a bad mood. But then I was asked to do something 'as a kind of favour' and I immediately saw red. Like I said, outside of this town I may have agreed, but here... I don't know what it is - I do it with everything.
Please don't think that this is 'Chinese baiting' - it's not. I'm like this with foreigners too. In fact, at certain times I have more contempt for some of the idiots that have decided to live here than the locals. I don't mind being asked for a favour or two, but I must have some 'favour device' in my brain, because people can quickly run out of favours, I've found.
I'm much more arrogant than I used to be and I don't like this. People push and shove and then I PUSH and SHOVE back. People offer some agreement and if there's the slightest thing awry I laugh in their face.
Blimey, I wouldn't want to know me....
 [/b] |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17960
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 20, 2004 - 10:34 AM |
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I must echo MMM on this as I think SH has made many of us worse that what we once were. I know it has had both a positive and negative effect upon my.
I am less tolerant and more abrupt that I used to me. if it were not for the fact that I have travelled in many parts of Asia in the past and had some experience dealing with this, I am afraid that i would be a monster. I have been know to demand the right of way on intersections, grab bicyclists off their bikes for making contact, opening car doors of cars that come by too dangerously, and pulling rude people off metro cars for cutting in front of everyone.
Overall,. I don't think my personality has changed, BUT the way I behave, or rather don't behave has defintiely been affected.
At the same time, China has made me a better person by allowing me to see even ore things that were different from waht I used to define as "the norm" Some things done here are done with a reason despite their defying our brand of logic...and it works. Sigh. I will just keep learning...and hope i learn more good than bad. |
Last edited by yu888 on Oct 27, 2004 - 10:16 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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BaDaXianRen
Low Seater
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 3298
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Oct 20, 2004 - 10:52 AM |
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well
I understand what you you are saying and it makes sense. there is a verb which describes your conditon. It is called acujering.
I first moved to china 7 years ago. suffice it to say it caused me to acujer. But I think it passes. I dont think you will ever be the same again, but...................I am moving back to Shanghai, so well I dont know how to verbalize at this point. |
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cornsey1011
Wonder Wit
Joined: Mar 23, 2003
Posts: 3781
Location: Shanghai...looking for a new abode
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 10:53 AM |
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Haha...I have to hang out with YU888 more. I would love to see some of that sh1t.
Workwise I have improved a lot. It has been a massive learning curve in understanding business and execution of business here in China. I almost can't wait to go back to the west and conquer it will execution and almost no planning.
Morally, there has been a decline for sure. But I am still able to justify it to myself and have not been overcome by any real sense of guilt...which for a Catholic is an amazing thing.
Heathwise I am probably the least heathly I have ever been in my life. That scares the bejezzus about of me because I can't really see ways to stay healthy here.
Overall I think I have expanded a lot as a person. If you can overcome all the challenges laid before you when you come to a city like Shanghai you can often develop a massive sense of confidence in your abilities. Its easy to have a god complex when you never venture more than 5km from you home or hometown and are surrounded by every sense of security you can imagine. But you crumble when you are faced with new situations etc.
It is only when you are tested to your limits, to the point where you think you will lose it completely, where you think you body and mental capacities will collaspe that you truly gain insights into who you are. And when you can reach those limits and overcome them there are going to be changes in who you are and you will learn an amazing amount in regards to what you can handle. It is very important to make sure those changes are channelled in a positive direction.
It is just as easy to channel these stress factors into a lot of negative habits but it always best to make sure you continue to keep your wits about you. |
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MaomingMaster
Board Legend
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 11059
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:04 AM |
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to acujerjer.
I acujerjer
He acujerjers
You acujerjer
We acujerjer
They acujerjer
I am acujerjering
I acujerjered
I was acujerjering
I have acujerjered
I have been acujerjering
I will acujerjer
I will be acujerjering
I am going to acujerjer
I will have been acujerjering |
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fombyf
Seeker
Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 69
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:14 AM |
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Well, after only 3 years, I may be premature (hey, it happens ladies), but I think the the word EVOLVED would be better.
I think that everyone (except the ROOMERS who stay locked in their sweet little gated communities) is a product of their environment. It is unavoidable. Maybe this explains why British colonials always dressed, acted, and kept the same type of regimen everyday in the Treaty Ports. If they did not continue living in the manner of their home country, they ran the risk of evolving into something else.
Oh well, just my 2 cents about that.
But yes, I am changed. I come to China as a Redneck from USA. I am now tri-lingual, have aVERY different view of the world than before (this was my first escape from North America).
And in the end I have decided that no one is right, and no one is wrong. We are all just different. It will be a LONG, LONG, time until we all can "just get along". |
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autorock
SuperStar
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 1299
Location: Heizchase Nailway
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:21 AM |
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I've been living here for almost a year and have learned alot more than I had imagined I would. I came to Shanghai without any expectations or clue what it would be like. I didn't even want to imagine how it'll look like.
So far, the painting on the canvas isn't a very pretty one. No doubt, I have gained experience, learned a new language and made new friends. I think that's awesone and I can't put a price on that. However, I have become less tolerant towards people, I am higher-strung and impatient and I bitch way more than back home. I must say, there are certain familiarities that I have found here with the Chinese back home but I was never prepared for this.
Satisfaction level has reached an all time low but for now, Shanghai is still bearable. My opinions have not manifested into a stereotypical contempt for the Chinese yet. Well, not fully, and hopefully never will. Looking at the bright side, at least I know that wherever else I may go after China, it's going to be better. I should look at it as paying my dues, just like when I was in college or interning or cooking everyday to impress someone. 
So if someone should ask me, "had you known that China was as rude, chaotic, hypocritical and crowded as this, would you still go?", as difficult as it may be for me to say this, I would have said yes. |
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burn. girl. prom. queen |
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endalia
Barker
Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 131
Location: sitting on a star
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:31 AM |
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I visited someone in Shanghai and one of the first things I noticed was that he was different. I couldn't put my finger on what ti was to begin with, but throughout the visit it became apparent he was more arrogant, abrupt and less caring. Since leaving I have found out more undelightful things about him. So I can agree Shanghai creates a change in a person. |
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A piece of red ribbon connects us... |
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Madibaman
SuperStar
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1483
Location: Medicinal Planet
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:33 AM |
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I've only been here a year and already, I've noticed that I lose my temper far faster than before. Generally, I'm level headed and calm but within months of living here, I've found myself cursing, staring and talking down to people more than ever. I now elbow people in the face or head if they try to get into the elevator before i can get out. I also let them meet my elbows or shoulder if they decide to jump right in front of me in a queue. I've found myself using less words to reason. Not because less is needed, but that physical abuse works better. I hate that I've become more violent and less patient. My level of trust in people has never been good and somehow, SH has made it worse.
However, on the flip side, living here has made me sharper when dealing with business. I don't regret moving here as much as it sometimes irks me. It has given me a kind of inner strength to deal with whatever else life might throw my way. It has also taught me to do everything on my own, only because that's the only way to get things done right. And I've learnt lots that way.
fombyf's "no one is right, and no one is wrong. We are all just different." is something I used to believe in and still so very much wished I do, but I don't think I can say that anymore.
Bugger. |
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Earth is full. Go home. |
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lucar
Board Royalty
Joined: July 05, 2004
Posts: 6252
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:38 AM |
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MMM. I was wondering if you could do me a favoUr while I'm still out of town.
Thanks in advance. |
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MaomingMaster
Board Legend
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 11059
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:54 AM |
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Sounds ominous...
What kind of favour?
Maybe you should pm me... |
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jimandcoco
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 2204
Location: California
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:55 AM |
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Well Yu888 don't think that you're the only one who has this kind of attitude problem. I think you may be a bit more extreme than i am but i get angry too. I punched a guy for spitting too close to me once. I kicked a taxi that almost ran my wife and i over in our apartment complex. That cost me 250 yuan. I yell at people for their stupid sh*t all the time. I definately voice my anger way more now than i used to. Nobody jumps in front of me in line without getting an earfull.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and not blame lack of education but blame the massive population. I feel that most of our western brained problems here in the east have to do with the large population and everyone's need to get ahead.
Jim |
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n00b
PopStar
Joined: Apr 27, 2004
Posts: 1130
Location: Hua Guo Mountain
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Oct 20, 2004 - 11:56 AM |
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everyday i look myself in the mirror and as you can see on my avatars...
additional few pounds over here and there...bdxr even noticed my cellulite.
more cynical than before, less trust to human - note it doesn't mean bad, i actually think it means good as long as they are in the right level and within the reasonable limit.
arrogant if toned down could be intrepreted as more confident. shove back if toned down could be intrepreted as less kitty.
i try to keep those in reasonable limit so i think it changed me for the better. except for sharing foods with the same chopsticks... |
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Caesara
Post Roaster
Joined: July 31, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: The Middle Kingdom (Shanghai)
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 01:22 PM |
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I don't think that Shanghai changes a person. I think it brings out qualities that are already present within a person and just not prominent. Sometimes these are the qualities that we try not to let out on a regular basis, but there you have it. Something along the lines of n00b's "if you toned that quality down, it'd be a good thing" idea.
So have I changed? I've tried not to, 'cause I don't think that I want to be one of those spitting, shoving, yelling, obliviously unobservant people that I get frustrated with. I have noticed that I'll be a little more assertive with my queue position than I was at home, and I'll take a taxi even with other people waiting (though I try to make eye contact, and'll give it to 'em if they look annoyed). When I wake up, I remind myself to smile throughout the day, even if I'm exhausted or aggravated. More times than I would have thought, it results in an unexpected smile back, a bargain, or a driver suddenly finding he's in a really good mood or - hilariously - chattering happily at me in putonghua the whole ride even when he knows I can't understand.
Shanghai is giving me a chance to experience the unexpected, and that's something I'll always treasure. I refuse to tarnish it. |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2004 - 01:57 PM |
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Serend Cal on Serend SH:
1. More quick-tempered, too.
2. Blase about good restaurant food. Love home cooking.
3. Walk faster.
4. More skeptical.
OK, all these negative changes we have read. I'll name some positive changes:
5. More public-spirited (b'cause no one else cares)
6. More alert to BS.
7. Love my wife more (yes, she'll be reading).
8. Love USA more.
9. Feel a stronger connection to Chinese culture.
10. Feel a stronger connection to the WORLD, and ALL ITS POSSIBILITIES! |
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halfcast
Barker
Joined: July 14, 2004
Posts: 178
Location: In front of computer
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 10:10 AM |
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I haven't even moved there, but I'm sure it's just called "survival of the fittest". Everybody needs to live. |
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Every exit from one, is an entry to another... |
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Madibaman
SuperStar
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1483
Location: Medicinal Planet
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 12:11 PM |
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A few of us think that there should be at least one Survivor series shot here.
One good thing about living here though, it teaches us about restraint. Seriously, I'm sure most of us here have had at least one instance where we wanted to club someone to death with the nearest large stick or baseball bat we could find. Well, most of us haven't done it. Yet. Uh, right? |
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Earth is full. Go home. |
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Caesara
Post Roaster
Joined: July 31, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: The Middle Kingdom (Shanghai)
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 12:19 PM |
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| Madibaman wrote: |
| ...club someone to death with the nearest large stick or baseball bat we could find. Well, most of us haven't done it. Yet. Uh, right? |
Don't look at MMM... |
Last edited by Caesara on Oct 27, 2004 - 01:16 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 01:11 PM |
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| halfcast wrote: |
| I haven't even moved there, but I'm sure it's just called "survival of the fittest". Everybody needs to live. |
Fellows: you see this is what all these silly rants and complaints at this forum do to a newbie.
Is this city really SOOOOOOOOOOO bad?! |
Last edited by serend on Oct 27, 2004 - 01:16 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 01:13 PM |
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| Caesara wrote: |
| Don't look at MMM... |
That's right. MMM admitted that he has hare-lips. Rude to stare. |
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SirFiddler
Board Legend
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
Posts: 11424
Location: Very close to a bottle of chilled Boags
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Oct 27, 2004 - 01:24 PM |
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More arrogant.
More extrovert.
More mild mannered though, I don't shout at staff or people in general any longer, but I reckon that has to do with the fact that I do not speak the lingo
Drink much more
Smoke much more
Less sports
More travelling
More openminded
More forgiving
Less caring about what comes tomorrow
alltogether I am much more my real self than I was back home. |
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Beer...Soooo much more than just breakfast www.justbeer.cn |
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itv1980
Low Seater
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Revalidation centre
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 06:13 PM |
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I'm just got more time to do fun things I like to do:
- play games
- dance
- watch movies
- have soo many different dishes
- go to kfc everyday for a week without my mom nagging 
- Laugh at the traffic and walk faster then the guy in the bmw 
- and so on and so on
Those's are good things |
_________________
RRRRRRRRGGGGHHH!!! |
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IamME
Rocker
Joined: May 23, 2004
Posts: 625
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 06:17 PM |
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God this is so interesting.
Okay, so there are a few points where I differ from some of the people's comments.
1. I am a broke as poor ghetto do it yourself kid in America and Shanghai has not in any way taught me anything about independance or shrewdness, but it has allowed me to experience the other side of culture: the abillity to buy things you need. If I need something, it's usually fairly within reach. This winter I plan on having ample heat and clothes. Plus, it allows me to feel the opportunity to apply some skills other than cooking to my job life.
As for the habbits, yeah.
I'm sick of getting crap and when the cong xin cai comes out with garlic sprinkled on top cause they didn't have time to cook them together, I let them have it.
In america I generally expect a certain level of quality in eveything and I except what I get and either don't come back, or think it's fine.
Here, I've sent stuff back and bitched at people cause there is just nothing else to be done. Of course I patronize my favorite places whenever I can to avoid this.
I have found myself pushing ahead of people if they leave room and then catching myself and stepping back. I cetainly push the people if they push at me, and I shove through crowds especially to get off the bus rather than weave, but it's because people don't really move out of your way at all like they would in america. These things I do blame on the size of the place. just too many people per square meter.
Today I found myself lying and that was the first big fault I've caught. A guy asked me if I had a phone and I said yes, but... and he said, oh it's the phone at your hotel. I just said yes, which couldn't be further from the truth. I then corrected myself, but it come from this whole thing about face. I normally just say I won't give you my number if I don't want to or tell them why, or whatnot, but I like the guy and he asked to make friends. I said okay, cause everyone always tells me to say okay to whatever anyone asks, then do what you want to. People are always saying, can you teach me english or something and apparently Im supposed to just say yes then do what I want. this strikes me as kind of awful, but maybe it's worse to deny someone in front of their friends. Of course I usually just deny them anyway cause I'm not comfortable saying I'll do things I wont.
So yeah, I litter more, I bitch more. I push more.
also I am less healthy. I don't want to jog for fear of breathing more crap. lol. I bought an air filter thing today.
i walk the same speed as ever, but I'm at a NYC pace. that means I get really pissed. People here walk like they're injured or something, and they always manage to step in my way or weave back and forth when I try to get arround them. I'm sure it's good and a sign of leasure, but when I'm on a mission it sucks. nothing has changed there though, only my surroundings.
Note: In fujian I did not feel these things, it is shanghai that's pushing me over the edge a bit.
and yes, there are days where if one more person does something **** up they will hear it from my fist. luckily no one ever pushes that last button. I think a cab is likely to get a foot in the window sooner or later though.
on the non bitchy side, also,
I found myself in charge of doing most of the ordering at a restaurant when I went with some whiteys to eat. As a result I fealt responsible for the way the meal went. I ended up moving arround the dishes and calling over the waitress to take away the ones that were done, and getting more rice for everyone etc.. Weirder though, was that I really fealt a compulsion to make people try the things they didn't seem to be eating. I held it back, but I really wanted to put food in their bowl and say things liike, eat this, it's good. It really made me get it alot more, the way people are always doing that to me. lol.
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Your hamtaro has bad habits |
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jenming
FooJay
Joined: Dec 20, 2002
Posts: 1675
Location: Right where you wanna be
Status: Offline
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Oct 27, 2004 - 06:27 PM |
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The changes I notice in myself i think may only manifest when I'm here... I'm not completely sure. I'll have to go back home for more than a few weeks and re-establish a routine before I can be sure...
When I go home now, I'm MORE patient, more understanding, have more goodwill toward those around me than I did before. I think it's because I get more reciprocation of those graces when I'm back home, and I appreciate it so much, that I turn into a horribly nice guy. But like I said, I haven't had a routine back home in so long, it's just been visits, so any behavior is suspect.
here, the biggest difference is patience and trust. I have less patience on the street, in conversations, when meeting people, etc.. If i meet someone new and I don't think they're that interesting, or I suspect that they're close-minded or something to that effect, I have less patience for really getting to know that person and actually finding out what they're like. Perhaps it's just that there are SO many people around, I just don't feel like I can spend so much time on each person...
I'm also much more obsessive compulsive here... washing my hands, feeling anxious if I stray too much from my routine, etc... but that may just be the vestiges of culture shock. I also find that I'm much more neurotic about my, well, body image here. If I don't get to go to the gym for a long time, I start looking in the mirror and scrutinizing myself. bizarre. |
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unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;unmount;sleep |
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jimandcoco
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 20, 2004
Posts: 2204
Location: California
Status: Offline
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Oct 28, 2004 - 12:43 AM |
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I once was so mad as to try to break a cab window by jabbing an umbrella at it because i thought the guy was driving too fast in an area where there's often a lot of kids. I wouldn't do that in USA because the guy would probably step out and try to kick my ass.
Maybe we foreigners are so arrogant because we're bigger than everyone else.
Jim |
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