Cost of living, expenses 2009/2010
Tags : property, business, travel, technology, nightlife, events, food, food, expat_services
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lexi26
Newbie
Joined: Nov 07, 2009
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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  Posted:
Nov 07, 2009 - 11:37 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Cost of living, expenses 2009/2010 |
Hello Expats,
I am a European currently residing in Los Angeles. I have been offered a pacakge to live and work in Shanghai. Would anyone please tell me if this pacakge is reasonable and what sort of lifestyle would I be able to expect? I am used to going out a lot eating out at restaurants going to gym etc.. This is what I have been offered:
-Monthly salary of US$3000 after tax (I currently earn $2750/month)
-The company will pay for my air flights, visa administration and give me a relocation allowance.
-I will be provided a furnished apartment close to where I will be working
-They will take care of standard health insurance
-I will be given a certain amount leave during the year and possibly a return airfare back home once a year
-A bonus and salary review will take place at the end of each financial year.
Your assistance would be most helpful or any insight into whether I should excpt this.?. Thanks |
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asdjason
Talker
Joined: Jan 02, 2008
Posts: 91
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Nov 07, 2009 - 12:04 PM |
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It all depends your lifestyle. If your company offers extra allowance for housing, transportation and, with $3000(considering the local earns about 3000 RMB in average), you will live a comfortable life here. |
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fWerrF
Rocker
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 706
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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Nov 07, 2009 - 12:16 PM |
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I do not know how you manage to go out alot eat out and etc on $2750, in Los Angeles.
But if you do that now and feel you are living well, you will be a happy happy man in Shanghai with $3000. |
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EXCELMOVING
Seeker
Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 45
Status: Offline
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Nov 07, 2009 - 12:24 PM |
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| Post subject: Cost of living in Shanghai |
I have found a very useful site which offers useful information about the cost of living in Shanghai.
http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20070122_living_cost_in_shanghai _2007_edition.htm
Everything really depends on how much you use it and how good is your standard of good. Above all, life in Shanghai is an adventure, and you may not be able to plan for everything. People in Shanghai don't like planning. |
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helen_of_troy
Barker
Joined: May 07, 2009
Posts: 134
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Nov 07, 2009 - 12:49 PM |
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Hi, just a couple of thoughts - check the small print on your furnished apartment and health over. It would be prudent for you or a trusted friend to actually visit the apartment to check out its quality, its facilities and the local area. Don't rely on photos. Also, you need to see what is covered in your health insurance - for instance, what % of the costs will you have to contribute?
Best wishes, Helen |
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lexi26
Newbie
Joined: Nov 07, 2009
Posts: 3
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Nov 07, 2009 - 02:03 PM |
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| fWerrF wrote: |
I do not know how you manage to go out alot eat out and etc on $2750, in Los Angeles.
But if you do that now and feel you are living well, you will be a happy happy man in Shanghai with $3000. |
Thanks. Well I have been dipping into savings quite substantially every month in LA. So i was hoping this wouldn't be the case in shanghai? |
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bhbernstein
Reacher
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 347
Status: Offline
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Nov 07, 2009 - 02:40 PM |
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Apartment quality and furnishings very greatly across the city... Some are great and others are real dumps... also if you are living in a real "local" area, unless you speak Chinese, it will be hard to shop, eat at restaurants and generally get around (especially if you are not living near one of the Metro lines). You should make sure of exactly where and in what you are living... Otherwise $3,000 is not a lot if you are going to have to supplement the housing they are giving you to move into a better place.
You can also burn through the $3,000 / month very quickly if you are only eating at "western style" restaurants and are going out partying every night.... |
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skaaght
Talker
Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 78
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Nov 07, 2009 - 03:13 PM |
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So, assuming they provide reasonable accommodations and insurance.....
You can easily live on $3,000 a month. bhbernstein is correct that you COULD burn through that in a month,and I am sure plenty of people do. But that is $100 a day for food, entertainment, and partying.
Unless we are talking about a Brewster's millions style situation, you would never actually end up doing so, especially if you have been living on $25k a year in LA.
Lets look at a reasonable budget.
Breakfast can be had with food from the local grocery for < $3 a day. This could be toast w PB, eggs, (canadian) bacon-style meat, coffee, whatever. If you prepare it at home should be a no-brainer.
Say 35-70RMB for a lunch in a reasonable, clean, international chain restaurant (Japanese, american, maybe a nice chinese one). That tops out at $10/day for lunch. Honestly, this is more than you need to pay for lunch, but I suppose you could find a way to maintain the cost. Might require (lots of) alcohol and eating in the central business district at expat restaurants. Actually, maybe they charge more in the expat-centric business lunch places. I don't go so I dont know. Might be closer to $15-20?
Dinner - lets say you go semi-crazy and decide you will only eat at All-you-can-eat, all-you-can-drink Jpanese teppanyaki every night. (Sushi, steaks, salads, sake, beer, etc etc all made benihana style). This runs you from $20-$30 a night. On the other hand, you could go to a denny's style (western) restaurant for ~$7-10 for a decent meal.
Throw in $10 a day for taxi to-from work because you don't want to ride the bus for $0.30 or the subway for $0.75.
So, if you add all these up, they top out at ~$55 a day.
This leaves you $35 a night to go out on -assuming you go out 30 nights a month.. Beers at expat-focused places run around $3-7 depending on location, time, type, etc. At the grocery store a beer costs about $0.50-$2 for a 600ml bottle. Depnds on brand,etc
ON THE OTHER HAND, based on how you are living now, if you lived a vaguely similar lifestyle, and maybe added a few luxuries, you could easily do food/transport for ~$25 a day average. (ride the subway/bus, $8 lunch, $12 dinner). This leaves you $75 a day for fun if you go out every night. Remember this means eating mostly at foreigner-friendly places.
If you start eating local lunch/dinner restaurants (that are still clean-ish) cut the budget in half again (~$10/day for food). Seriously. it can be that cheap here if you choose this route.
Anyhow, not here to judge what you should/shouldn't do, which lifestyle is/isn't good. So please, no flames folks. just trying to give an idea of what the costs can be based on the lifestyle you would choose. |
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bigroh73
Reacher
Joined: July 13, 2003
Posts: 316
Location: Shanghai
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Nov 07, 2009 - 05:06 PM |
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US$3k/mth net, with rental paid by the company - financially - its a good deal.
With no idea on your age/experience level - its certainly not a bad salary for foreigners living in Shanghai.
But as others have recommended, you DEFINITELY want to read the fine print on your medical insurance, and also check out the apartment quality/location. If you can be no more than 10min walk from a subway station, your life will be quite convenient and much cheaper. You don't really want to use taxis to get everywhere.
Location/quality of the apt will have an immediate impact on your satisfaction level in Shanghai.
If you can't get someone to check out the apt for you, then you convince them to give you a fixed amount (you can choose to go below or above this), and you can find an apartment to live in during your first week here. ie. You're paying too much if the rent is more than 6-7k for a 2bed apt in a good area.
What others have said about food, entertainment, etc. is mostly correct. |
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fWerrF
Rocker
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 706
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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| Posted:
Nov 08, 2009 - 01:32 AM |
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| skaaght wrote: |
| ... Dinner - lets say you go semi-crazy and decide you will only eat at All-you-can-eat, all-you-can-drink Jpanese teppanyaki every night. (Sushi, steaks, salads, sake, beer, etc etc all made benihana style). This runs you from $20-$30 a night. On the other hand, you could go to a denny's style (western) restaurant for ~$7-10 for a decent meal. |
You want the man to eat crappy japanese buffet every night???  and Denny's??? DENNY's???  |
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fWerrF
Rocker
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 706
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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Nov 08, 2009 - 02:00 AM |
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let me go into a bit details.
lets just say $3000 USD a month, is your spending money, which means eat drink party leisure activities etc etc etc.
its doable. but not in a luxury way.
if you go to the "nice" places, which means places catered to local elites, expats, tourists, for example, foreign restaurants, fancy local restaurants, hotel bars, lounges, clubs ... the cost, is international price.
$10 USD a cocktail, $50 USD ahead for a simply 3 course meal without wine, $175 ahead for a tasting menu with wine at a nice place, $100 USD a bottle at a regular club, $250 a bottle at a fancy club, $200 for 2 hrs of spa treatment, $15 for foot massage ...
$3k is not gonna cut it.
if you can do local places. lets say restaurants, go to a decent local place, they prolly won't have menu in english, they most likely don't speak a word of english, but the place is still big and clean, the food is still good and safe to eat. a meal can cost only $15. a quick lunch or snack at shack or foodcourt type of places cost under $5. a cheap pub u can have $3 beer all night ...
then $3k is more than enuff.
alot of ppl who have never been to china, got the impression that china is cheap. its true, even in shanghai, locals can buy a bowl of fried rice for like 30 cents USD and thats lunch.
however, for someone from a 1st world western country with a decent life style, the places they are likely to go in shanghai, are priced internationally, just like LA or NY. thus the overall expense is gonna be same or very close to your expense in LA, for the same life style, except taxi's here are super cheap, thats about it. |
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Ah Beng
Rocker
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 771
Location: Shanghai Paradise
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Nov 08, 2009 - 02:34 AM |
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Not to worry, as long as housing is taken care of, 3k is more than enough to get married to a local babe, buy a house, have a kid and even feed an entire villiage here. |
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Renovator
SuperStar
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 1430
Location: Century Park & MA,USA
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Nov 08, 2009 - 05:29 AM |
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Some Europeans/Americans would live like royalty in Shanghai on the package you are being offered while others could not begin to make ends meet. Your lifestyle will depend on your comfort level with food, entertainment, transportation, etc., not on Shanghai as Shanghai offers food and entertainment at all price points.
I, for instance, get my haircuyt for rmb 5 with a discount card and people often ask me where I get my haircut as they think it looks great. Other people will tell you that a man in Shanghai can not get a decent haircut for less than $60. This is no different in the US where the former Sam Walton, founder of Walmart, never paid more than $5 for a haircut while others would not consider a haircut decent if it cost less than $400 a la John Edwards.
If you decide not to take the job, it would be nice to post the company that is offering this position as there are more than likely dozens of qualified people who would jump at the opportunity you are being offered. |
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SnappySammy
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 13112
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Nov 08, 2009 - 05:45 AM |
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Don't believe that Sam Walton story.....Sam knew how to live....and his Children REALLY KNOW HOW TO LIVE.....Now lets talk about your situation.... $3000 US a month after your housing and health, is more than you are making in LA....Shanghai by Chinese Standards is an expensive place to live...but its not like LA.....So I think you will live better in Shanghai on $3000 US than in LA on 2750 US....ITS A NO BRAINER....Have a great Chinese Adventure and come on Over... |
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skaaght
Talker
Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 78
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Nov 08, 2009 - 08:05 AM |
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Exactly - tis up to you and your choices. Can be possible, can be impossible. |
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jasonnoguchi
LoopKicker
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 902
Location: From Singapore
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Nov 08, 2009 - 09:00 AM |
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I would advise you to make sure this is a reputation company. Otherwise, you will get more problems here with getting paid or fighting for your benefits than justified by the few hundred more you seem to be offered.
(not to mention you will be paying MUCH more for the same products and car that you are used to back home here in Shanghai) |
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asdjason
Talker
Joined: Jan 02, 2008
Posts: 91
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Nov 08, 2009 - 09:33 AM |
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| Ah Beng wrote: |
| Not to worry, as long as housing is taken care of, 3k is more than enough to get married to a local babe, buy a house, have a kid and even feed an entire villiage here. |
Its not true that you could buy a house easily with that 3k/month. The house price is going crazily high recently. |
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trousers
Ranter
Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 581
Location: sofa
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Nov 08, 2009 - 11:10 AM |
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Some expats here spend a ridiculous amount here, some not very much. Some things here are cheap, some things not. We eat out or get food delivery 3-4 times a week, maybe once at the more expensive places and have maybe one boozy night a week. In other words, we're comfy here with a few luxuries. We spend about 10-15 thousand rmb a month for the two of us.
You'll be fine and should be able to save a bit too. |
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crivens200
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Joined: Nov 05, 2007
Posts: 930
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Nov 08, 2009 - 12:03 PM |
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've always wondered why salaries are so low in America? My American friends say that a salary of $100k a year is phenomenal. WTF? What do you do for $2750 a month in LA? Hotel bell boy? McDonalds server? |
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condesa
Barker
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 08, 2009 - 12:04 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Cost of living, expenses 2009/2010 |
| lexi26 wrote: |
Hello Expats,
I am a European currently residing in Los Angeles. I have been offered a pacakge to live and work in Shanghai. Would anyone please tell me if this pacakge is reasonable and what sort of lifestyle would I be able to expect? I am used to going out a lot eating out at restaurants going to gym etc.. This is what I have been offered:
-Monthly salary of US$3000 after tax (I currently earn $2750/month)
-The company will pay for my air flights, visa administration and give me a relocation allowance.
-I will be provided a furnished apartment close to where I will be working
-They will take care of standard health insurance
-I will be given a certain amount leave during the year and possibly a return airfare back home once a year
-A bonus and salary review will take place at the end of each financial year.
Your assistance would be most helpful or any insight into whether I should excpt this.?. Thanks |
I think you should be fine on this salary. I was living in Los Angeles as well and to give you a few examples, food in the supermarket for the most part is way cheaper than in L.A., same as transportation (bus, metro, taxi), housing is cheaper too (and If you got it covered well you don't even have to worry about), eating out you can eat for 2U$ or less in a little shop OR you can pay the same you were paying in L.A. if you go to nice restaurants and expat bars. Overall you should be able to have the same standard of life you are having in the US or even better.
The great thing about Shanghai is that you got tons of options for everything, dirty cheap or ridiculously expensive so you can balance things depending on your personal preferences.
Welcome to Shanghai !!!! |
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tejizo
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 22
Location: Pudong
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Nov 08, 2009 - 12:18 PM |
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I probably can imagine your lifestyle with $2750/mo in L.A. (That's "only" 33K/yr). If you intend to keep the same L.A. lifestyle quality here in Shanghai, you have nothing to worry about, none. (salary-wise, anyhow). |
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condesa
Barker
Joined: Aug 02, 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Nov 08, 2009 - 12:37 PM |
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| tejizo wrote: |
| I probably can imagine your lifestyle with $2750/mo in L.A. (That's "only" 33K/yr). If you intend to keep the same L.A. lifestyle quality here in Shanghai, you have nothing to worry about, none. (salary-wise, anyhow). |
Mate,
I think the OP is referring to salary AFTER TAX, that means salary pre tax is substantially higher considering that Uncle Sam likes to bite your paycheck in a very nice way and "The Governator" does it even better  |
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wingman2
Lurker
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 39
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Nov 08, 2009 - 01:39 PM |
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| Quote: |
Hello Expats,
I am a European currently residing in Los Angeles. I have been offered a pacakge to live and work in Shanghai. Would anyone please tell me if this pacakge is reasonable and what sort of lifestyle would I be able to expect? I am used to going out a lot eating out at restaurants going to gym etc..
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Hi Lexi26,
If you havent been to Shanghai before I suggest you come and have a look at the city. That is if your company is willing to pay for a "scouting trip".
Personally, I think you should ask yourself whether you can live and work in Shanghai. If the answer is 'YES', then go for it.
What's the use of having a good package if you feel miserable day-in day-out.
Personally, I enjoy being in Shanghai. I use to work in Northern China.
Just my point of view...
Wingman. |
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Mister_happy
Ranter
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 574
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Nov 08, 2009 - 02:11 PM |
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Just remember that a teacher in one of the big international schools is nearly on twice the package you are on.
What job is it you will be doing anyway? |
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lexi26
Newbie
Joined: Nov 07, 2009
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 08, 2009 - 02:22 PM |
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| tejizo wrote: |
| I probably can imagine your lifestyle with $2750/mo in L.A. (That's "only" 33K/yr). If you intend to keep the same L.A. lifestyle quality here in Shanghai, you have nothing to worry about, none. (salary-wise, anyhow). |
Just to let some of you know, I get $2750 a month after tax in LA and I live pay check to pay check. I dip into savings regularly and have a large fiends base so use the connection card a lot (as you do in LA). This allows me to go out to all the hotspots, dine at most nice restaurants etc. I was hoping that by earning a little more in shanghai and having most of my expenses payed I would be comfortable.
After reading all the great replies it looks like Shanghai will be an absolute adventure.. The responses have all been brilliant thank you all so much.
I think i'm going to take the risk as I'm still young and don't have to much to lose. Cheers |
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