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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Apr 09, 2005 - 05:01 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Chinese[] Vs Korean Culture |
I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss given that the Chinese[] always claim that they gave the Koreans their culture.
I was on the limousine bus this morning from Seoul to Incheon airport. There was a couple of Americans sitting behind me talking. For one of them, it was his first visit to Korea. I heard one of them say "The people here are so polite that it really makes you want to be polite back to them". Such are the manners that the Korean people have that they can leave this kind of impression on a visitor.
I have never heard anyone in my life comment about the Chinese[] in this way.... and the Chinese[] have the nerve to twist history so they can claim that all Korean culture comes from them. I don't think so.
The manners of the Koreans never cease to blow me away and I have been coming here for many many years when the Koreans were relatively poor. You see, manners are not related to being a wealthy country as some of the local Chinese[] posting to this site would have you believe. Manners have their roots in the culture of the people. |
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msrb
Seeker
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2005 - 05:11 PM |
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I agree most Chinese are impolite and have no manner.
Manners do have their roots in the culture of the people, but the Chinese probably do not twist history in a sense that their poor manners (and attitude) root from the Cultural Revolution.
I feel sorry for them. |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Apr 09, 2005 - 05:11 PM |
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Now let me share with you the first experience I had today when I arrived back at Pudong Airport.
Within 60 seconds or less of having left the arrivals hall, I arrived at the taxi queue and lined up. The guy managing the queue pointed at a blue taxi and asked me to take it. Before I could reach it, a Chinese[] came from nowhere and pushed in and jumped into the taxi. I asked him to get out and he said "no". Then I began to argue with him and he just sat there and asked "who said this is your taxi?". I kept arguing with him and the guy managing the queue came up to me and said "這些人素質很差" zhe4 xie1 ren2 su4 zhi4 hen3 cha4 which literally means "these people quality very bad" meaning that the person is a low level cockroach.
These are the type of people I run into all the time here. Spend a month in Korea and you would never run into such an arsehole.
Now this guy was obviously not low level 鄉下人 since he just flew in on an international flight and didn't take the shuttle bus from the airport. He is middle class Chinese[]. Probably educated too.
Now my question to the Chinese[]: How can you justify the claim that you gave the Koreans their culture when the two are so different? Is it a case that you forgot what you gave them? Or did they just pick and choose what they wanted from your "culture"?
I vote the Koreans the most well-mannered and polite people on the planet. |
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msrb
Seeker
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Apr 09, 2005 - 05:20 PM |
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Sorry to hear that.
I have similar experience every day.
Pissed me off sometimes.
But there is nothing I can do, except showing them a blank-look.
Become a bit numb now.
They become better only after 10-20 years of education/civilization. |
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itv1980
Low Seater
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Revalidation centre
Status: Offline
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Apr 11, 2005 - 05:42 PM |
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Well you'll always have those people, when this weekend was queing up for buying a trainticket to Nanchang, a men in quite expensive suit (could be fake) was complaining about the rudeness of some peasnts in front of us. But THEN he himself, cut the line, spit, smoked where he wasn't allowed, shouted trough his phone like the whole hallway could here it. AND was even amazed when I complaint about him and told him he could rather shut up and be polite or join his "buddies" in front of us.
Then he called me a barberic westerner. Sure it's always anothers fault huh,
Sometimes I wish my look could kill, but then again I would be a bad person, dilemma's |
_________________
RRRRRRRRGGGGHHH!!! |
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cks69
Ranter
Joined: Aug 06, 2004
Posts: 562
Status: Offline
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Apr 11, 2005 - 06:54 PM |
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G4k - you could easily find that behaviour on the streets of NYC - its not limited to shanghai. The thing that pisses me off about it so much in Shanghai is when ppl try to cut lines or take your taxis and then fake ignorance about not knowing there was a line...at least in NYC they are straight up about it in your face.
i completely disagree with you about koreans, however. I lived in Korea for three years and, in general, I did not find them to be as friendly. On the surface they may seem to be, but as with Japan and China, its often all just a farce. Their whole idea of "respect" is out of control (kids beating the crap out of younger kids cuz they won't bow to them etc) and this permeates throughout society. Furthermore, I have never met a culture that struggles from an inferiority complex as much as Korea (maybe they have a right to be after having been trodden on for centuries by the mongols, chinese, japanese, americans etc). This inferiority complex spills over into aggressive nationalism and xenophobia...
As a foreigner Korea is a much much more difficult place to live than China. |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Apr 11, 2005 - 07:38 PM |
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You are correct, it is a difficult place to live in terms of language, food and culture difference. It is a very regimented Confucian society which is quite different to modern Chinese[] society.
There are many things foreigners don't like about Korea but manners is not one of them. The Koreans, for whatever reason, are the most polite and well mannered people I have come across. |
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peining
Reacher
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 223
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2005 - 08:45 PM |
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| good4kicks wrote: |
| There are many things foreigners don't like about Korea but manners is not one of them. The Koreans, for whatever reason, are the most polite and well mannered people I have come across. |
that's completely right, they are very well-mannered.
yes, sir! may i have another! |
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RT
Reacher
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
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Apr 11, 2005 - 09:17 PM |
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I don't know much about Korean culture but just want to point out something interesting in g4k's posts for the viewers' reference:
| good4kicks wrote: |
... ...
Now my question to the Chinese[]: How can you justify the claim that you gave the Koreans their culture when the two are so different? |
and then
| good4kicks wrote: |
| You are correct, it is a difficult place to live in terms of language, food and culture difference. It [Korea] is a very regimented Confucian society which is quite different to modern Chinese[] society. |
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Rio
Post Boaster
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 4724
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Apr 11, 2005 - 10:06 PM |
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Hahahaha, have to admit, thats quite funny RT |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Apr 11, 2005 - 10:12 PM |
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Yes, Korea is a Confucian society but I would say that you local Chinese[] flushed old Confucious down the toilet a long time ago and forgot who he was and what he taught you.
Or are you living in the past again when you claim that you gave the Koreans all your culture? To be sure, you are nothing like them today. |
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peining
Reacher
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 223
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2005 - 10:51 PM |
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| good4kicks wrote: |
| Now my question to the Chinese[]: How can you justify the claim that you gave the Koreans their culture when the two are so different? |
isn't your question based upon the past? perhaps i am mistaken. |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2005 - 03:27 PM |
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RT should be laughing at his own stupidity because he has not understood what I have said. Peining is the only one with a brain that seems to have realised I am talking about something else.
My argument has always been that the local Chinese[] possess no culture. Whatever they had was flushed down the toilet long ago. Therefore, I always wonder how the local Chinese[] can claim that they gave the Koreans all their culture because the local Chinese[] and the Koreans share nothing in common.
Since the local Chinese[] have nothing to be proud of in modern times, their favourite strategy is to look back to what they did in the distant past. In this case, our clever little friend RT is looking back to Confucious in the year 500 BC to assert the claim that the local Chinese[] gave the Koreans their culture.
I will repeat: local Chinese[] and Korean culture are not related in any way. The local Chinese[] gave nothing of value to anybody. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Apr 12, 2005 - 03:51 PM |
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What a bunch of crap, as usual, congratulations good4kicks. Now you are saying that good manners come with culture. I am not sure what is the scientific or factual basis behind this. Your story would tend to prove that, on the contrary, culture is not related to good manners. By the way, ever wondered why Koreans used Chinese charaters before (and still use them for some people and place names etc)? The mysteries of evolution... Good manners are related to education and development. Singapore is a good example - it used to be a bunch of spitters (and pee-ers in elevators). We also know that Chinese culture has evolved separately in the mainland in the past decades, for example compared to Taiwan which has remained very traditional. Interestingly you actually contradict your own arguments form one thread to another. And dont get me started on Korean chicks vs. Chinese, because THAT would be an interesting topic. |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2005 - 04:07 PM |
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| frenchlover1999 wrote: |
| By the way, ever wondered why Koreans used Chinese charaters before (and still use them for some people and place names etc)? The mysteries of evolution... Good manners are related to education and development. |
You are now employing the favoured Chinese[] time-warp strategy to support your claims because the Koreans invented their Hangul script 500 years ago. People still use some Chinese[] characters for various reasons but that is all related to the distant past and is not relevant to the issue at hand. The characters they use are more than 500 years old. I can read both traditional and simplified Chinese[] characters very well but I cannot recognise some of the Chinese[] characters used by the Koreans and I know the educated Koreans cannot recognise many modern Chinese[] traditional or simplified characters. They are from a different time - an era that most local Chinese[] and you should acknowledge vanished long ago.
Are you Chinese[]? Or have you picked up the time-warp strategy from hanging around the locals too much?
On the topic of manners, I have been to some very poor parts of the world where people are illiterate and their manners are much better than the local Chinese[]. So, I disagree that they are related to development. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Apr 12, 2005 - 04:22 PM |
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Yes I time-wrap as a past-time. So you acknowledge that Chinese & Koreans have something in common, at least characters, from long time ago? Kind of contradicts your point about Korean culture having nothing to do with China. As for manners, note that I wrote development AND education. So you could simply say that Chinese[] have bad manners because of the brainwashing orchestrated by the bad bad bad communist government etc. Not because of culture (the same culture that would have had Singaporeans pissing in elevators). |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2005 - 04:28 PM |
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| frenchlover1999 wrote: |
| So you acknowledge that Chinese & Koreans have something in common, at least characters, from long time ago? |
HAD something in common a very long time. The meaning is quite different because modern Chinese[] have nothing in common with today's Korean.
Most local Chinese[] wouldn't be able to read many of the old characters the Koreans sometimes use today and vice versa. |
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peining
Reacher
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 223
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2005 - 05:41 PM |
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hmm. that last posting of mine was a mistake on my part. well, no matter the origin of Korean culture is out of line with the topic of this here thread.
| cks69 wrote: |
| i completely disagree with you about koreans, however. I lived in Korea for three years and, in general, I did not find them to be as friendly. On the surface they may seem to be, but as with Japan and China, its often all just a farce. Their whole idea of "respect" is out of control (kids beating the crap out of younger kids cuz they won't bow to them etc) and this permeates throughout society... |
cks69 raised some very good points.
unless i want to be locked up in a cage, have a wardrobe of kitchen aprons, and a smile tatoo-ed to my face... i think i choose the misery that is shanghai.
side note: g4ks, it's really too bad you've got something against local chinese. RT is a unique, intelligent and remarkable individual. if only you could open up a little, i think you could get along. |
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WonderfulWorld
Raver
Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Xanghai, Xina
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Apr 13, 2005 - 04:42 PM |
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There are lots of things that local Chinese and the Koreans HAVE in common: the notion of "face", the value on collectivism over individualism, the desire to be more Western (hence the popularity of epicanthic fold removal comsmetic surgery in both countries), the guys being intimidated by white women, the popularity of chick flicks and TV shows portraying late teens' and/or young adults' love stories that are considered sentimental and naive by contemporary American standard, most high schoolers streesed out by overkilling curricula emphasizing rote memorization and fervent competition, just to name a few. This list can go endless. And many of the points are also shared by Japan. In spite of cultural revolution and communist administration in China, overwhelming American influence in Korea and Japan, Confucianism is still a common underline of CJK societies and cultures. Though Korea defintely keeps more Confucian traditions than China, and keeps the ones they share more strongly. |
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blablabla
Raver
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Posts: 378
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2005 - 04:15 PM |
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you know what's bad manners? calling the locals "Chinese[]".
i've read some of this good4kick guy's posts and damn this bloke has a chip on his shoulder.
a mega chip. |
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fukuman
Wonder Wit
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 3699
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2005 - 03:02 AM |
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"you know what's bad manners? calling the locals "Chinese[]".
i've read some of this good4kick guy's posts and damn this bloke has a chip on his shoulder.
a mega chip."
and i thought they produced them at low cost............. |
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wakk0
Raver
Joined: Sep 03, 2004
Posts: 393
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2005 - 04:28 AM |
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| fukuman wrote: |
"you know what's bad manners? calling the locals "Chinese[]".
i've read some of this good4kick guy's posts and damn this bloke has a chip on his shoulder.
a mega chip."
and i thought they produced them at low cost............. |
.. in an uncontrolled factory. Nothing beat them..  |
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ctshen
Barker
Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 153
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2005 - 11:10 AM |
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The discussions here so far overlook an obvious question: how do you compare NORTH Koreans with the SOUTH Koreans? I suspect all the glowing reports of Korean good manners (which I have no problem accepting) are about S Koreans. Has anyone here lived in N Korea? It's undeniable that Korean culture was greatly influenced by Chinese culture. It's also quite true that one finds a lot of rudeness in the present Chinese society. But is it moving in the right direction? For one thing, since I came from Shanghai and therefore know a little bit about the recent history, I'd rather be the recipient of rudeness than political persecution. I believe China is changing, first economically, but also morally, in the right way. Yes the pace is much slower in the latter, but if the reports of the spread of christianity in China is true, then I'm very hopeful. It's always much easier to destroy a civilization than to build one. As for my friends here who have a problem with the Chinese manners, I can only say this: you're in THEIR country. Help your host by setting a personal example. Now that's good manners! |
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blablabla
Raver
Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Posts: 378
Status: Offline
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May 04, 2005 - 09:32 PM |
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"Help your host by setting a personal example. Now that's good manners! "
fantastic, stellar, fabulous sentence ctshen! brilliant even. i could not agree with you more. all the nay sayers should first learn to behave themselves.
amazingly true sentence. will be thinking about this one for weeks. |
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fukuman
Wonder Wit
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 3699
Status: Offline
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May 05, 2005 - 10:15 PM |
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i sound like 1 of those chinese who set their minds on meeting a foreigner and do it with so little tact.
but my friend is studying in shanghai uni with soem North koreans and apparently they read my posts and love my shiatt man. im gonna meet up with them, should b so cool. |
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