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kappakai
Raver
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417
Status: Offline
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Apr 04, 2005 - 11:14 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Expat from Charlotte, NC to Shanghai |
Hello All-
I'm a young expat-to-be, company-initiated relocation with a large multi-national corporation (3rd party logistics) to Shanghai. I lived in Shanghai for a few years when my dad was relocated, so I'm somewhat familiar with it. However, as far as a standard compensation package, I don't know that much. So, I was wondering if a few of you could give me an idea of what to expect (preferably, Americans.)
Well, actually, this is what I'm expecting (per my dad):
Cost of living adjustment- per some websites, I should expect a 50% increase in my base salary (Charlotte index: 0.8, Shanghai index: 1.2).
Hardship pay- Is Shanghai still considered a hardship post? What % of salary?
Home leave- Company paid, two trips home per year?
Housing allowance- based on what I've seen, anywhere from 4000-8000 RMB for a one or two bedroom place. I prefer something closer to the city, and don't mind an old style place. Especially looking for a back yard/garden. Seriously.
Transportation allowance- when my dad was in Shanghai, he had a driver. Somehow, I don't think that's going to happen with me. But, I haven't been there since the subways opened up, so have no idea what kind of trasportation allowance I should be seeking.
Other allowances- food, insurance, tax, phone, net, etc? What should I be expecting?
Have services gotten better in Shanghai? Specifically, utilities, banking, internet access (at home, Cable or DSL; how are speeds?)
Anyway, definitely looking forward to going back to Shanghai again. And I'm always down for networking and meeting new people. I've lived all over the US (I'm a west coast boy though), ABC, down for clubbing, arts, food, anything really.
Thanks much,
Kai
BTW, I'm currently working as a buyer/purchaser (muahahaha). Been working for a year. I expressed interest a year ago in going to China, and corporate finally got their ass in gear this year, and approached me. They are a 750 mil company, and are trying to estabish a third party logistics and warehousing company in China, an industry that is more or less non-existant there. I will be helping with sourcing, quoting, establishing customers, in addition to buying. So, no, I am not teaching english, and I do have room to bargain hard. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31091
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Apr 05, 2005 - 03:38 PM |
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Hey Welcome!! I'm from Charlotte too! Lived there for about 10 years...
A few Charlotteans floating around...
Will come back and answer some of your questions when I have some time, unless others do it first! |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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kappakai
Raver
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2005 - 09:22 PM |
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Wow, everyone really IS flocking to China, even those from NC, which I'd never expect.
Yah, I've only been in charloote for a few years. i guess they don't have bojangles out there huh. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31091
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Apr 07, 2005 - 10:19 AM |
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If you have room to bargain, then by all means do so! As much as you can...
As far as the specific questions go, each position is different and every expat is on a different type of package. Will try to help you based on my experience, but there can be several other interpretations...
| Quote: |
Cost of living adjustment- per some websites, I should expect a 50% increase in my base salary (Charlotte index: 0.8, Shanghai index: 1.2).
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Most cost of living calculators ask if you are going to be renting or purchasing a home in the new city. The property value in Shanghai is higher than Charlotte, on average, which is one of the major reasons the the percentage is higher. Since the company will most likely be paying for accomidations, that may take away some of the leveraging room.
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Hardship pay- Is Shanghai still considered a hardship post? What % of salary?
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Technically, yes... but that is becoming less and less with each passing day. Think it really depends on your level in the company, you age (to some extent) and family situation. But I could be wrong.
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Home leave- Company paid, two trips home per year?
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That's about average. Make sure to stipulate airlines and seating beforehand. You may not wish to specify that the trips are home... but rather two trips each year. Just in case you don't want to head home at that particular time you don't want them to say "sorry, we aren't paying because you aren't going home". If they are unwilling to go for two paid trips a year, try and negotiate for the extra time for the trips.
Keep in mind that there are tax ramifications as a US citizen and the amount of time that you can legally remain in the US each calendar year in order to take advantage of the tax breaks. If your company is going to be sending you to the US for business on a frequent basis, you may want to keep this in mind. But really, it's not a big deal.
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Housing allowance- based on what I've seen, anywhere from 4000-8000 RMB for a one or two bedroom place. I prefer something closer to the city, and don't mind an old style place. Especially looking for a back yard/garden. Seriously.
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You will be able to find housing in that range and downtown. Don't forget to include the maintenance fee (which usually aren't that high).
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Transportation allowance- But, I haven't been there since the subways opened up, so have no idea what kind of trasportation allowance I should be seeking.
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Would really base this on how far your apartment is from the office. Within the inner ring road, you can be to most places for less than RMB25, via taxi. Metro fares are extremely inexpensive, average RMB2-3 per trip. The Metro is expanding everyday and has decent coverage of the city. For meeting, dinners and such that are related to work, then the company may have a driver, but if they don't you can always take taxi's. You could put that up for an allowence, but it may be easier just to expense it.
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Other allowances- food, insurance, tax, phone, net, etc? What should I be expecting?
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On the whole, the company pays for the apartment and you pay for utilities. Some apartments include the utilities. If you are in a serviced apartment, then light housekeeping may be included. If not, you can always find an ayi, which is generally not paid for by the company, except in high-level executive positions. The company should provide you with a mobile and pay the monthly bill, especially if the majority of calls are business-related or business-related overseas. If you anticipate working from home, then you may wish for them to pay for your internet connection and or fax line, if needed. Some apartments will include it, but most won't.
Food... company dinners and such are of course covered by the company. For your normal, everyday food, most people don't have an allowence, unless traveling. Food prices vary here... local items are inexpensive and imported items are roughly 50% to 100% more than at home. Restaurants run from RMB5 per person to RMB2000 per person and up... bars are the same way.
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Have services gotten better in Shanghai? Specifically, utilities, banking, internet access (at home, Cable or DSL; how are speeds?)
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Banking is still a bit behind the times from what you may be used to and should you ever have to go to the actual bank, prepare to wait in long lines. Not sure if internet banking is used because I don't use it. Although things like wire transfers and such are fine. Homes have ADSL and some new thing (can't remember what it is called)... speeds vary.
Speaking of banking and money... you may want to make sure that you salary is not paid in full by RMB. Since you are American, go for USD (USD can be directly deposited into a bank) or a USD/RMB split. Will make your life easier in the long run.
More and more places are accepting credit cards, but China is still pretty much a cash culture. Expect to pay things like your rent, monthly bills and such with cash rather than credit cards or cheques.
Hope this helps a little.
No Bojangles... but McDonald's, KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, Mrs. Fields, Tony Roma's, TGIF, Hooters and such are here...
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_________________
BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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kappakai
Raver
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417
Status: Offline
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Apr 07, 2005 - 08:36 PM |
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Hi Mag-
Thanks for the info! That definitely helps a lot. I wil reply more later; just got into work.
Also found out last night that I got into graduate school. tough decision, accept this job, or go to school? Depends on the offer, but I got a ton more leverage now.
Kai |
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carolinecampbell2
Newbie
Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 5
Status: Offline
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Apr 10, 2005 - 11:53 PM |
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Kappakai,
Good luck on your move! I think China will give you more education then you could ever get in school, and school will always be there for you later.
I've moved back to the U.S two years ago, but maybe I can be of some help. I'm looking at heading back to China this summer, and my husband's company has put me in charge of sending their expats as well.
Since your company is fairly established, you will definitely be able to get a higher housing allowance then what you quoted. Most expats coming in with packages will be in the 12000RMB to 30,000RMB range. If your company uses standard city guides, this is where the housing is pegged at.
You will be able to find decent housing at around 8000 rmb, maybe less if you're lucky, it depends on your standards. Many of the $1000 USD places will include onsite gyms and services which will be handy.
Ask for a utility allowance of $150 per month,... magnolia was dead on about flights.
PM me if you need more information, we're a little bit ahead of you in the info gathering process, so I can pass on all the helpful leads I have developed.
CC |
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kappakai
Raver
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417
Status: Offline
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Apr 11, 2005 - 08:15 PM |
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Hi CC-
Thanks for the info. I think I will be hitting you up for some more information. I get conflicting information, some saying that expat packages aren't the same as 10 years ago, some saying they are. I have two ABC/American friends who work there, and I checked with them, but they are both in different situations; one works for a startup, the other for a Chinese company.
The housing figures you quoted, is that per month? I assume so, even though 30,000 RMB sounds really high for a one bedroom place. I've seen the old style places in Shanghai, but not really the new ones (as I haven't been there in about 5 years.) We lived at Longbai during the 90's, and that was pretty decent. Typical Chinese-for-foreigers construction and design.
I do plan to use "standards" for determining pay and allowances, though I'm having problems finding such standards. I know the COLA is a .5 difference (.8 in Charlotte vs. 1.2 in Shanghai) and I've seen references to a 15% State Department hardship designation. As far as other standard packages I suppose they vary.
I'm still gathering information. I think I have about a week or two before they submit an offer to me and we start negoiating. I'm actually going to try to fold in tuition reimbursement/ school in exchange for more years of committment. So, I'M THINKING, two years in Shanghai, two years in school, and two more years after that, so I get the best of both worlds: real life application, and theory from school. I have no idea where they are coming from, but I'm quite sure I will get expat status. I will PM you later on today, and we can chat. Thanks! |
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