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mmeade
Newbie
Joined: July 01, 2003
Posts: 3
Location: San Diego, CA
Status: Offline
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July 04, 2003 - 11:26 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
I\'m researching perspectives on how \"whiteness\" is percieved. Is it a cultural bias or does it have any meaning at all? For once in my life I have lots of time on my hands and want to take this time to explore a topic I\'ve been curious about. When I see signs posted in US universities advertising \"Black Club\" or \"Hispanic Club\" I wonder why I am reticent, yet tempted, to post a \"White Club\" sign? I may include your perspective in a book - without using your name - so your submission is a tacit agreement to let me do this, unless you specify otherwise. My goal is to help us to \"rise above the differences and distinctions that divide us\" (a sufi prayer). You may reply here or join me for a cup of coffee.
Follows is an example of one person\'s perspective:
Rodney writes...
\"I refer to myself as French American. I\'m both French and Native American, though I don\'t identify with the Native American side. My dad was 1/4 and my mom was 1/8th of Micmac in Northern Main. The Native American people who married into our Catholic family abandoned their traditional ways and were embarrased to be Native American. The French lost the war against the English and we became an isolated people living among the Native Peoples. The French were there for 500 years and had developed relationships with the Native Americans as trappers. Many moved south to New Orleans, or New France in Canada, Qubec.
I didn\'t feel like a typical American; I was different because I spoke a different language. I didn\'t speak English as a first language so I felt very much outside of the dominate culture... \"
He writes lots more that you\'ll have to read the book to see. I\'m sure there are many more stories like this out there and I would like to hear them to encourage a dialogue on true diversity.
I can also meet you at Starbucks Portman for a brief interview - coffee on me! (And for those who are wondering, I a  m a happily married woman).
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Warmly,
Mary Meade |
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Lee_High
Talker
Joined: June 26, 2003
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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July 07, 2003 - 09:45 AM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
the minorities tend to stand out at anyplace. in a christian nation muslims stand out, vice versa. there is no point to start a white club in most universites in america since most of the students r white. in chinese universities, we have clubs for students from the same provinces. but in any given province, u can\'t find a club for the province the university is in. nor can u find a club for students form chongqing in chengdu; there r simply too many of them. |
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Chinese Dragon |
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PhAt
Reacher
Joined: Apr 14, 2002
Posts: 259
Location: Dystopia
Status: Offline
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July 21, 2003 - 02:20 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
I\'m not white, but I believe I could say this for everyone and that is, \"WTF?!\"
You are right, you do have way too much time on your hands, ain\'t no body is going to read this book you are preparing to write. What\'s it gonna be called, \"Outlook on Twenty-First Century Chauvinistic Culture?\" :casstet: |
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PhAt
Reacher
Joined: Apr 14, 2002
Posts: 259
Location: Dystopia
Status: Offline
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July 22, 2003 - 12:10 AM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
You obviously missed my point, bleep. I\'m not racist.
[Edited on 21/7/2003 by PhAt] |
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quasi
FooJay
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1776
Location: shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2003 - 06:59 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
actually u can say it is racial descrimination or bias towards sbs colour but it does exist in the world and what we can do is to remind ourselves when we tend to treat ppl with different attitudes coz of their colour its wrong coz i do believe lots ofppl have this bias subconciously :exclam: :casstet: |
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Gwailo
Barker
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 148
Location: London
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Aug 24, 2003 - 11:01 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
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| I wonder why I am reticent, yet tempted, to post a \"White Club\" sign? |
Well if the purpose of setting up such a club was merely to emulate the minority groups you mention, then no wonder you are reticent. After all, what point would there be? If you spend time in environments where \"whites\" are in the minority you will find de facto white clubs, although not normally called that.
White people do not generally share a common culture or heritage, in the way that say blacks in the US frequently do. For example, I am English. English culture and history is characterised by class and regional differences, not by race perse. Culturally I have more in common with a working class black Londoner than I do with a white English middle class surburbanite (although arguably that is what I have become).
Hence I think your idea doesn\'t really have legs. It presupposes that people define themselves predominantly by thier colour, which I do not think is true. \"White\" doesn\'t describe me, or even an important aspect of my character, history, culture, etc. There are many other single issue labels that you tell you far more about me. A Cockney, Working Class, A Surveyor, A Former Soldier, etc. Even though they tell you little about me, they all tell you far more than \"White\" does.
[Edited on 24/8/2003 by Gwailo] |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Aug 24, 2003 - 11:55 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
True, gwailo, although it is interesting that you say you have more in common with a black working class guy rather than a white middle class guy, \"although that is what i\'ve become\"
is it more that you want to have more in common with the working class guy? It does sound more fashionable. And what do you have in common with a white working class guy and a black middle class man?
I hear people say they are proud to be black often enough. I fi said i was proud to be white i would be called a racist. But im not proud to be white. It was something i was born with, i didnt earn it. I am proud to be polite, and respectful, and proud of my parents and grandparents, and their history. But to be proud of being any particular skin colour can only come from being in the minority, and wanting to feel identified.
It is not racist to set up hispanic clubs, as they want to fell their background around them, but what about racial segregation constructed by the minority rather than the majority. Did anyone see the australian woman encarcerated? She was a leader of australias \'one nation\' right wing paarty. She had complained at racial minorities for ostracising themselves, and not mixing.... like in England, when we take a thousand immigrants and they refuse to learn English, and stay only within their nationality groups, whilst taking our countries money. Is that right? |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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Gwailo
Barker
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 148
Location: London
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2003 - 08:02 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
| Quote: |
| is it more that you want to have more in common with the working class guy? |
I am not certain how to answer that question fully and honestly as to do so would imply that I know and understand my own subconcious motivations, which I am not sure I do.
I am working class, in that I gew up in what would certainly in England at the time be classed as poverty. Because of bullying I found school very difficult and left as soon as I was able to (at 15) with no qualifications at all. I worked on building sites for three years before joining the Army...
However, on leaving the Army and in my late 20\'s I decided to study and eventually gained a degree and then a professional qualification. I have since started my own consulting business and what I earn could not be described as a working class income.
Nonetheless, the things that I enjoy doing, and very often the people I enjoy being with, are people and things that are working, rather than middle class. When I go to the pub I prefer going to those that I frequented in my youth, I follow the football team I followed in my youth, I go for Pie and Mash on a Saturday lunchtime.
My middle class aquaintances have, on occasion, refused to visit the pubs I use (they wrongly assume that they are unsafe), they aren\'t interested in football, but will play or watch Rugby, and will probably stop off at Pret a Manger for lunch on a Saturday.
In short the culture I grew up with is the one I am most comfortable with, but it is associated with lower income groups, of which I am no longer one. I do have some friends who have a similar background and have truly become midde class (captain of the golf club etc) and are comfortable with it.
Arguably I cannot be working class because I earn too much money, but if I am not economically working class I am culturally...If that makes any sense.
None of this is has anything to do with being fashionable, the things I do are not fashionable, the places I go are not fashionable.
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And what do you have in common with a white working class guy and a black middle class man?
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I did think I had had made it clear in my post. Class is significant, colour is less so. Because for me class defines culture in England not race. I think I would have more in common with a working class Englishman of any race than I would with a middle class Englishman of any race. We will have shared experiances of growing up, we will most likely share many values too. |
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Goosie
Board Grand Dame
Joined: July 16, 2003
Posts: 4802
Location: Singapore
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2003 - 10:18 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
And I\'d like to know why white and whiteness are in parentheses in this (and other) thread, while terms such as African American and Asian are not. Does this mean white and whiteness have a different connotation from African American or Asian? Is there uncertainty as to what the term means? Should white people feel ashamed to call themselves white?
What\'s this all about, anyway? |
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Nemesis of Political Correctness |
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DayStar
Squeeker
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Southgate, MI
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2003 - 11:31 PM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
As I mentioned before, I spent a week here in June, and I am still not sure whether being white in Shanghai makes one looked up to or down on.
What do you think? |
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Gwailo
Barker
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 148
Location: London
Status: Offline
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Aug 26, 2003 - 02:40 AM |
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| Post subject: Research on being \"White\"... |
On the \"proud to be black Vs proud to be white issue\", the simple reality is that when you use those terms people, rightly or wrongly, make certain assumptions. On a simple factual basis there is nothing to be proud about because your skin is a certain colour, it is just chance that it is that colour and not some achievement one can be proud of.
When black people use the phrase they do so against a history of black skin being a cause for shame and being synonomous with lack of achievement. More laterly a background of black people raising thier profile and becoming acknowledged as equal. The phrase in this context says that \"Black people have proved and continue to prove that they are the equal of white people, despite having been told for generations that we were inferior\".
When white people use that phrase we do so against a background of white people claiming superiority for generations. More recently against a background of fascism and nationalism inspired by white men, often with the aim of returning us to the previous condition where black skin would make one inferior.
The questions I would ask you Nick are these. Nobody will criticise you for claiming to be pround of your roots, or of being English, or of a whole host of others things. Why is \"White\" so important or significant? Given that you are white purely by chance why do you feel the need to be \"proud\" of it?
You see I have been trying to argue that the colour of your skin, or mine, is really so irrelevant in terms of who and what we are that I simply do not understand those who seem to think it defines them in some way. Be honest, is there some thing culturally, historically, socially, that white people all have in common that marks us as different from non white people? Of so what is it? Because I know I don\'t share my culture with a Yank, I know I don\'t share my language with a Frenchman, I know a don\'t share my values with a German. Yet I know many non white people whom I do share all of that with. |
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