The Beer Thread. . .
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Kiwi
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Joined: May 07, 2003
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 Posted:
June 20, 2005 - 09:25 PM |
 
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| Post subject: The Beer Thread. . . |
I thought we could use a thread on interesting beers and where to buy them around town. Might be a bit thin on material in Shanghai since the selection is limited, but perhaps there is enough out there to keep a thread going.
Today I found some good deals on English beers that I hadn't spotted around town before. The supermarket underneath Grand Gateway has:
Greene King IPA RMB 12 / pint can
Abbot Ale (Greene King) RMB17 / pint bottle
Old Speckled Hen (Morland) RMB17 / pint bottle
All decent beers and at good prices.
I have seen Old Speckled Hen around town before (City Supermarket usually has it), but the Greene King beers seem to be new.
I'm having the Old Speckled Hen now. A bit sweet, better for winter. It isn't as good as Hen's Tooth (the bottle fermented ESB from the same company). But I like the taste. Kind of hoppy and a bit spicy tasting. More interesting than Boddingtons.
Anyone spotted any other decent brews around? |
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Kiwi
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June 20, 2005 - 09:39 PM |
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Just to keep this discussion flowing I'm opening the Greene King IPA now.
I actually tried this back home in Dunedin in January. There is a great little English pub there with about 20 English beers on tap. Wasn't my favourite that afternoon and not my favourite now.
Taste is a bit light. Could do with more hops. More a session beer than a drink to savour. Also, I think there is a bit of a metalic taste in there from the can.
Personally I'm not a big fan of canned beer. I also prefer hoppier and stronger bitters to lighter ones.
Still, this stuff beats Qingdao. |
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mat
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
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June 21, 2005 - 07:57 AM |
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Good find on the beers Kiwi. Hard to find different beers around town, but City Supermarket can be relied upon to quench a thirst. |
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Joecrappie
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Joined: Apr 08, 2005
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June 21, 2005 - 07:59 AM |
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I had some Hoegaarden with dinner last night that was pretty good. Seems that you can get Hoegaarden everywhere here.
I had a great pour of Guiness at O'Malley's on Sunday. But at RMB65 per pint, if anyone knows of a cheaper pint in town, let me know. |
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urgentculture
LoopKicker
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
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June 21, 2005 - 08:33 AM |
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hey Kiwi, I can tell you're a serious beer man like myself ... how about getting a group to head over to that brew pub near the Bund. I tried it about 2 years ago and wasn't impressed but willing to give it another go. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31550
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June 21, 2005 - 08:48 AM |
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I am not a beer drinker, but was in the supermarket in the bottom of Grand Gateway the other week with a friend who is a beer drinker and he got excited about some of the imports they had... sorry, I have no idea what they were.
Maybe worth a gander if you are in the area... |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: this side of the tracks
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June 21, 2005 - 08:54 AM |
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Or a brewing group. Ive always been interested in trying my hand at cooking up some ale, either in bottles or kegs. Shouldnt be too expensive and im sure if we pulled our resources we can find all the gear we would need. |
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GC
The Ginger Prince
Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 22189
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June 21, 2005 - 09:18 AM |
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Lotus in the basement of Super Brand Mall(Luijazai) also has a good selection of imported beers. Next time i am there i will take a note of what they are.
Sadly, for my sins i am more of a cheap lager kind of person. |
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Kiwi
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June 21, 2005 - 09:23 AM |
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Joecrappie, best bet for cheap Guinness is finding a place that will do it 2-for-1 during happy hour. I don't think O'Malley's do happy hour, but several places with Guinness do. One I can think of is that bar on. . . I think it's Donghu Rd? Anyway, it is on the street that runs diagonally to link the south end of Fumin Rd. with Huaihai Rd. (the same street becomes Fenyang Rd. after it crosses Huaihai Rd.) Happy hour in there is probably 6-8pm. I think they sell a reasonable amount of Guinness in there since they promote it a bit. Tasted OK to me.
Urgentculture, I don't think I've ever checked out that brewpub. I walked past once in the morning before they were open and it didn't look too promising. But yeah, why don't we pay it a visit sometime?
Bleucheese, a brewing group could be fun. I've brewed beer before, but haven't done it in years. We would need to find a cool place for it though, since the temperature in Shanghai at this time of year is higher than you want for either an ale or a lager. For an ale we could find an electronic cooling pad to wrap around it while it's fermenting. For a lager we'd need to ferment it in a fridge - if anyone has a spare fridge! I'm not sure about availability of ingredients and stuff. The easiest thing is using home brewing kits, or using cans of malt extract + hop pellets/real hops/hop extract. Mixing up a mash from straight malt (i.e. the grains) is kind of difficult. I only tried it once. A major mission, the kitchen became a battle zone, and the result tasted well. . . 'interesting'. It was during a timewhen nobody was importing Hoegaarden to New Zelaand and I thought I'd make my own. A bit ambitious perhaps. Anyway, you can make great beer using canned malt extract without going through all that. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
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June 21, 2005 - 09:31 AM |
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I think it's Donghu Rd?
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Would that be Jenny's Blue Bar? |
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Kiwi
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June 21, 2005 - 11:09 AM |
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Yeah, Jenny's Blue Bar sounds right. . . |
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Joecrappie
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June 21, 2005 - 11:18 AM |
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It's been about ten years since I brewed. Anyone still have their brewmaster's guide? If people are serious about this and can get together the glass carboys and other hardware, I can bring back a couple of different mashes (from kits) from the States when I go in July. I'm assuming they would clear customs. The biggest impediment I see is getting a cool place as Kiwi mentioned, although we could wait until winter and stick it out on a balcony. Someone's going to have to boil all those bottles too. |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: this side of the tracks
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June 21, 2005 - 11:30 AM |
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Ill boil. Im always cooking something.
Eventually, I could look at some used mini fridges. Or even used full sized local made ones.
Cant be that expensive. Then we can either brew in full kegs or those skinny little soda kegs. But Im getting ahead of myself... |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
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June 21, 2005 - 11:35 AM |
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I used to brew british style beers. I would think the temp at this time of year is ideal for brewing this type of beer. I used to have to put a heating strap around the carboy to keep the fermentation going. The biggest pain in the ass was bottling... especially if you bottle in small bottles.
Regards, Matthew |
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GC
The Ginger Prince
Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 22189
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June 21, 2005 - 11:36 AM |
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i've got a mini fridge |
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Kiwi
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June 21, 2005 - 11:44 AM |
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About ten years since I've brewed too. I don't have any of my brewing books with me, but I figure all the recipies and instructions we need will be on line somewhere.
Getting the hardware together should be easier than finding the ingredients. We just need some plastic barrels or glass carboys, bottles (glass would need to be boiled, plastic could just be sterilized in a sterilizing solution), airlocks, hydrometer, mixing spoons, maybe a strainer or two, hoses, some big pots for boiling and mixing. None of that should be too hard to find.
Home brew kits (i.e. malt extracts + hop extracts + yeast) will be harder to find. I know you can buy them in Taiwan and HK, but I haven't seen them around here. I'm sure its all legal though.
It is also sometimes nice to add some specialty malts (crystal malt, chocolate malt etc.) for a bit of extra flavor. Probably hard to find that, but possible to bring from overseas (you don't need much). Annother possible source could be the local breweries.
Some form of yeast will be available somewhere around town. Real beer yeast might be harder to find. But it is pretty easy to culture some out of one of the bottle fermented beers sold here (i.e. Hoegaarden, Erdinger, Chimay, Duvel, or those Canadian ones, Fin de Monde, Trois Pistoles etc.). I've done that a couple of times before with no problems. |
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Kiwi
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June 21, 2005 - 12:22 PM |
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Now I'm trying the Abbot Ale by Greene King.
This is good stuff. I've had this beer before, but they've changed the packaging.
This beer is basically what I like English bitter to taste like. A rich copper color from the use of some darker malts, malty tasting but not too sweet, some aroma hops, and enough hop bitterness to make things interesting. Seems you can also taste the yeast in this one too, so there is some more complexity there.
The strength of this one is about right too - IMO. The Abbot Ale is 5% by volume, compared to only 3.6% by volume for the IPA (also by Greene King). Much as I like bitter, the brits are very keen on weaker bitters (below 4-4.5%). Weaker bitters usually don't do it for me. They never have much complexity.
One weaker English beer I do like is Mild. That stuff is weak, but its maltiness is quite morish and refreshing.
The other nice weak bear (virtually alcohol free) is Berliner Weiss. Haven't had that in absolutely years since whoever was importing it to New Zealand stopped. Very nice summer drink. It is only about 2% by volume, incredibly sour, and delicious on a hot afternoon, maybe with a splash of rasberry, lemon, or sweet woodruff syrup. Totally different taste to the Bavarian style wheat beers (i.e. Erdinger - available in Shanghai).
But anyway, this Abbot Ale is worth a try. Wonder if any bars are stocking it?
For Graham Greene fans, I think the the Greene King brewery was (and maybe still is) owned by a relative of his.
They also produce a beer called Suffolk Strong, a very tasty dark ale. Suffold Strong is an unusual product in that it is a blend of two beers, one a young beer and the other an aged one. Aging and blending beers in this way went out of fashion in most countries a long time ago. Only the Belgians are still doing it in a big way. |
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dek
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Joined: Feb 09, 2004
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June 21, 2005 - 02:55 PM |
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Has anyone seen a shop selling the TsingDao dark beer? I got stuck into it at the end of the Tsingdao brewery tour a few weeks back. It was a nice change. Perhaps they only sell it up north.... |
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Kiwi
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June 21, 2005 - 03:52 PM |
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Yeah, Tsingdao (Qingdao) dark seems to only be available up north.
Qingdao actually produce two darks: Qingdao Dark is quite sweet, and the other one, which is even harder to find and has some weird name like 'haidao heipi' (sea-island black-beer) is drier. They are both dark lagers rather than real stouts, but still a nice change from the usual Qingdao.
Sorry to say I have never seen them in Shanghai though. You can get Qingdao Dark in Hong Kong though.
But on the subject of dark lagers. . . Has anyone seen Yebisu (惠比壽?) around town? Yebisu is the premium product from Sapporo, and comes in light and dark verions. The dark is a very tasty dark lager (similar to Kostritzer - available from City Supermarket).
Japanese people tell me Yebisu is available in some of the Japanese restaurants, but nobody seems to have exact addresses etc. |
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sinoscouser
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Joined: June 20, 2005
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June 23, 2005 - 02:48 PM |
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You can get newcastle brown and mcewans at the british bulldog pub on wulumuqi lu |
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Kiwi
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June 23, 2005 - 03:14 PM |
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Yeah, Newcastle Brown is also available in cans in various supermarkets (City Supermarket, Metro, the one below Grand Gateway, maybe below Parksons).
If you are just after a cheap brown beer (actually a brown lager rather than an ale) then try to find 'Carbine', an Australian beer being produced locally by Steinlager from NZ. Not sure if Steinlager are still producing Carbine, since they sold their local brewery a few months back. However, Carbine was still on the shelves in Lianhua and Parkson (Baijia) supermarkets very recently (so either they are still producing it or there is still a bit floating around). Used to also be on tap in the Blue Frog, but I think it disappeared from there last year sometime.
Carbine is interesting for a local beer, but nothing special. Only in China would I drink this stuff! Only in China would I drink Steinlager for that matter. . .
Can't remember if I've seen McEwans in any of the supermarkets here. But I don't like most of the McEwans beers anyway.
The only things McEwans make that I find worth drinking are their barley wine, and a range of three darkish and malty scottish ales with strength indicated in shillings. Apparently these names are based on the old system of taxing each barrel of beer based on its strength - or to be more exact on the sweetness of the unfermented wort. From memory there were three beers in the range, '60 Shilling', '70 Shilling' and '80 Shilling'. Predictably I prefered the 80 Shilling, which was the strongest one. Dont' think it was that strong though, from memory maybe 6.3%. |
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Kiwi
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June 23, 2005 - 10:58 PM |
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Another hot night so time for some pilsner.
In Shanghai I find Jever Pils a good option. You don't see it much in the bars (probably only in places with a German boss), but it is available in City Supermarket.
I'm not a huge fan of pilsner. I prefer ales to lagers anyway, and those times I do drink pilsner I try to go for Czech pilsner rather than German pilsner. Pilsner Urquell is probably my favourite. But Czech pilsner isn't available in Shanghai, and even if it was available here it might not taste good here since Czech pilsner seems to spoil easier than just about any other type of beer I know.
Out of the brands of German pilsner that I have tried here in Shanghai there aren't too many that I really like.
However, Jever pilsner is a favorite of mine. Bitterness is the outstanding characteristic of Jever, and that is the reason I like it. this one definitely has some bite to it, making it a very refreshing drop that never becomes too sweet and cloying. This beer could perhaps be more complex or better balanced, it also lacks aroma compared to some other pilsners, but it does the job nicely. It is refreshing enough to knock back a few, but you won't fall asleep from boredom halfway through your glass.
Jever clearly beats all of those bland generic rubbish German style pilsners like Steinlager, Fosters, Carlsberg, Stella, Qingdao, etc.
The one place you could fault Jever is for being too bitter. Many Germans have told me they find Jever far too bitter to be pleasant, and to be honest even I am not always in the mood for a pilsner that is this bitter. Pilsner is for quenching your thirst rather than making you think too much after all. So for occasions when Jever seems too much of a mission I generally go for Bitburger (usually available in City Supermarket but has not been on the shelf the last couple of weeks). I find Bitburger a very nicely balanced beer with a bit of complexity. It has a nice aroma to it, crisp malt flavors, and just enough bitterness to linger in your mouth until your take your next swallo. Not too bitter, not too heavy, not too light, not too sweet. A good solid pilsner.
So Jever pilsner for the hopheads and Bitburger for everyone else. These two should be worth trying over summer if you haven't tried them already. There are some better pilsners out there, but unfortunately not in Shanghai! |
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Joecrappie
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June 24, 2005 - 06:14 AM |
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Thanks Kiwi. I saw Jever at City Supermarket yesterday but didn't know anything about it. I tried Kronenburg instead which I didn't really like. I'll pick up some Jever today and check it out. |
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Kiwi
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June 28, 2005 - 11:58 PM |
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A good deal going on at the supermarket underneath Westgate Mall (on Nanjing Rd. near the Shimen No. 1 Rd. Subway station).
They have Duvel for only RMB19/bottle. In Shanghai it generally goes for about RMB27/bottle, so this is a good deal.
Duvel is a classic, and is one of the beers that first got me interested in Belgian beer. It has remained a favorite of mine ever since. In fact I was drinking Duvel down at Cotton Club on Friday night.
The name means ‘Devil’ in Flemish (or is it Dutch?), and is pronounced ‘doo-val’, with the stress on the first syllable.
Well the Duvel I picked up today isn't cold yet, so instead I will just write about the bottle I had on Friday night. . . Pulitzer prize winning material below:
It was a dark and stormy night. . .
Well to be precise it was a humid muggy night, which was also dark. I was sitting in the deepest and darkest corner of the Cotton Club, with my angelic companion. We had just arrived and sat wrapped in a foggy haze of smoke, jazz, and indecision. What to drink? Hmmmm. . . The conditions seemed perfect for a Duvel. When in doubt, fall back on the familiar. I also knew Duvel would pack enough punch to shine through the music and smoke. And perhaps the angel would find unexpected pleasure in an encounter with the devil?
Well OK, so predictably the angel went for some suggestively named cocktail, and I was left to take on the Duvel alone. Never mind, I knew there was nothing to fear. Angels can be like that sometimes.
Flemish was not part of the waitress’s skill set, and confusion briefly reigned before the devil was conjured up. However, she got there in the end.
The Duvel arrived.
A squat brown bottle with a white and red label materialized on the table, and its contents were poured into a large balloon shaped glass. Was it my imagination or did the music reach a kind of crescendo as the golden ale poured with its characteristic dense, rocky head? The musicians swayed to the beat, silhouetted against a colorful stained glass wall. The effect was curious. The quickening rhythms evoked forgotten religions from darkest Africa; the stained glass suggested a Belgian cathedral. A more hysterical individual than myself could have imagined that this pour was the high-point of some voodoo ceremony, perhaps a beery fertility rite that had arrived in technocratic Brussels via New Orleans. However, brief reflection convinced me that this whole idea was just too bizarre to even think about, and I was jolted back to reality. At least, somewhere fairly close to reality.
The Duvel was placed between me and the angel. “Gosh! What a big head!” the angel exclaimed. “Well I bet you could give great head too if you. . .” A combination of common sense, good breeding and animal guile caused the words to stick in my throat. The devil and I were still flirting. It had not yet totally possessed me.
I wordlessly pondered the Duvel between us. The glass gleamed gold, the pale color belying the strength within. My lips anticipated what was to come with the faintest flicker of a (devilish?) smile. “How come it has so many bubbles?” the angel continued. I imagined how Dr. Samuel Johnson would have answered this question. No doubt he would have been slightly pompous but very informative. He would have given a detailed explanation of how proteins are extracted from the barley malt used in making beer, and how these proteins are vital in creating a good and lasting head. He would probably have gone on to talk about the evils of beers in which cane sugar or cheap malts are used to produce sufficient alcohol, and how the result is a lack of taste and a poor head. He might even have found a piece of chalk from somewhere and scrawled rough but wonderfully illuminating diagrams on the wall of the bar to illustrate his points. The musicians would probably have finished their set early to wander over and listen. But Dr. Samuel Johnson didn’t answer the question, instead Ernest Hemmingway answered: “It just does”.
Slightly annoyed by Hemmingway’s intrusion I asked the angel if she wanted to try it.
She tried it.
“Too bitter!” she exclaimed. Well, angels can be like that sometimes.
I tried it.
A beer never smells really good in a smoky and noisy room, but Duvel is potent enough to stand up to a little smoke. There was a spicy aroma from the hops. That smell was probably Styrian Goldings, traditionally used in English bitters. The other hops are Saaz, and are probably do more for the bitterness than the aroma.
For an all malt beer of 8.5% alcohol by volume Duvel is remarkably light in color. Although Duvel is an ale (i.e. fermented with an ale yeast rather than a lager yeast), it achieves its light color by using a very lightly roasted lager malt, and small amounts of candy sugar. This makes for a beer that is powerful yet delicate, light yet complex.
In some ways Duvel is reminiscent of a good pilsner. It is crisp and refreshing. There is nothing in the taste to truly shock someone has only ever drunk standard pilsners before. But the potency, maltiness, and complex aromas make Duvel like a pilsner on steroids. While the flavors are not too different from a pilsner, they are much more intense. There are big doses of fruitiness, maltiness, spiciness, bitterness, sweetness. Sip it slowly, and search for some new flavors as it warms up. Duvel is never boring.
Duvel is bitter (the angel was quite right), but that bitterness is not a bad thing. If an ale of this strength was not bitter then it would be rather sweet, and if an ale this light in color was sweet then I think it would be too cloying.
Because of its strength and complexity Duvel is matured for 2 months before being sold. It is fermented in the bottle and so has a small yeast sediment. In recent years the yeast sediment seems to have got lighter. I think I preferred the old yeastier Duvel, which I remember as softer and more perfumed than the new one. But I doubt the old Duvel was available in supermarkets in China.
Back in the Cotton Club I thought about how Duvel had evolved from a slightly yeasty, hard-to-find gem and into something crystal clear, mass produced, and perhaps a little blander than perviously. Perhaps the beer had lost something? But perhaps the world had gained something? I pondered life. Compromise was sometimes necessary in life. Remembering I was in China I considered the problem from a Buddhist angle. Buddha stressed that without good, we cannot have evil.
I considered my own situation. Perhaps I needed to flirt with the Devil to enjoy the company of an angel? |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
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June 29, 2005 - 09:17 PM |
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Well tonight I ended up in a Xinjiang restaurant, and so Xinjiang beer seemed appropriate.
I noticed for the first time that there are actually two Xinjiang beers available in Shanghai, a standard pilsner and a dark lager. Maybe everyone realizes this already. I know the dark is pretty popular. But this was the first time I noticed the light one.
I ordered a bottle of each and away I went. . .
Predictably the pilsner was a bit, well. . . 'light'. Reviewing these Chinese pilsners is a bit of a waste of time, because they are all much the same. But for the sake of science I'll write a couple of lines.
The Xinjiang pilsner is labeled simply 'New' in English, while the Chinese says 'xinjiang pijiu'. The label is blue and white, with a picture of some mountains in the background. The bottle is green. This brew is made by the Xinjiang Beer Industry Group. It comes in a 620 ml bottle and is 4.3% by volume. The label promises that it is made from the fresh spring waters of Tianshan (a mountain in Xinjiang), and reassuringly adds that the quality is 'controlled'. The taste is disappointing ordinary. One wonders what the point is in shipping this stuff all the way from Xinjiang down to Shanghai. The beer pours with a poor head that soon vanishes. There is a bit of hop taste in there, definitely more than Reeb but probably less than Qingdao. On the plus side it isn't too sweet. Nothing much more to say really. Drinking this is unlikely to prove an epithamy.
The dark lager rates a little better. This one is labeled "Black Beer" in English, with a green "new" at the top of the label. This "new" is a bit confusing, having been there continually for the past three years. Clearly not much new happens out in Xinjiang. The label is black and green. The bottle is 330ml, and once again the beer is 4.3% alc/vol. This one actually pours with a reasonable head - nothing spectacular but perfectly respectable. The taste is not bad, and compared to what else is being brewed in China it rates very well. This is a nice dark lager, perhaps a bit light, but still definitely more than just a colored version of the pilsner. There are some soft malty notes, a bit of chocolatey sweetness. Not much hop flavor. This beer isn't going to rate against one of the really decent dark lagers available in Shanghai (say Kostritzer or Yebisu), but then they don't sell Kostrizer or Yebisu in hole in the wall restaurants in Shanghai. You have to take what you can get, and this stuff is better than average. |
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