The Coolest Jobs
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reverse_expat
Lurker
Joined: July 15, 2005
Posts: 25
Location: many possibilities
Status: Offline
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  Posted:
July 19, 2005 - 01:52 PM |
 
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| Post subject: The Coolest Jobs |
I am a native Chinese, expat’ing (so to speak) in NYC. Since God has made me a Chinese, I feel obliged to take advantage of the gold rush that is going on in China, not unlike most of you on this forum. Actually, the “gold” is not so much the draw for me as the “rush”, which is the element I yearn in my life/career right now. Currently, I am working at a blue chip investment bank in NYC, where my job function is split among number crunching, writing and investor education. While the pay is more than good and my boss values me, I find that my job lacks significance. I have been searching for greener pasture in the States, but my focus lately has been making a landing in greater China if the opportunity is right.
Besides the usual bi-lingual skill that thousands of other people also trumpet (not to split hair here, but I have native speaker level fluency in both English and Chinese), I can boast my intuition and considerable knowledge base. My knowledge base encompasses law, business, philosophy, physics, biology, math, politics, history, finance and literature. I have been, with some success, trying to synthesize these diverse bodies of knowledge and make connections among them, so that I can attain deeper understanding about various concepts and become more efficient at absorbing new knowledge. Considering all my strengths, I can take on a variety of positions, including but not limited to sales, trading, private equity, i-banking, professional baseball manager, film producer, mayor, consulting marketing, business development.
This is probably the most roundabout way to ask the question is germane to the subject of this thread – what kind of cool and exciting careers are you guys leading in Shanghai. Also, I’d interested to hear from you how I can get into the positions mentioned above as well as any business opportunities you have that would be suitable to me. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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July 19, 2005 - 02:49 PM |
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Since God has made me a Chinese
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Sorry but God stopped dealing with China since 1949.
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My knowledge base encompasses law, business, philosophy, physics, biology, math, politics, history, finance and literature.
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Jeez
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have been, with some success, trying to synthesize these diverse bodies of knowledge and make connections among them
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You are a Scientologist, aint' you? Can you make objects fly?
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This is probably the most roundabout way to ask the question
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Somehow I managed to read it until the end, although I skipped most. Dont overestimate us expats in Shanghai. Short attention span, no ESP skills, no patience with silly posters and their convoluted brain circuits. |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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kika
Seeker
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 58
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2005 - 03:48 PM |
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used to think that one of the most beautiful thing about chinese culture is modesty. unlike the US, people never brag about how
clever/successful/wonderfull they are.
well, it doesn't count for you for sure.
if you are a native Chinese, you're income in Shanghai will never be as high as in the US, even if you'll work for a foreign company.
if you're looking for "significance", as you mentioned, combine a volunteering activities with your career. let people enjoy all your qualities and capabbilities for free. |
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mrperegrino
Barker
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 139
Location: Shanghai- Pudong
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2005 - 04:07 PM |
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Kika is right on.. the Corp. tandard in China is that if you are a returning Chinese, "banana", or whatever, your value is set at 80% of your western co-workers. My best friend is going through Salarynegotiations right now, and it is a rule he was slapped in the face with. He's considered a "half-pat". But at least he's at 80%, a native chinese would only be at 60% at best. Education, experience, and talent do not outweigh that idiotic rule.
If you absolutely have to be part of the growth explosion here, come as an owner invester, it is the only way you will be treated with any value. Use your expertise and gather some investers together, come here and start your own JV or Multinational...
But down come here expecting to be welcomed home to sit at the banquet like a prodigal son... sure the Gov wants it's foreign educated chinese back... institutional racism is alive and well.
Like Kika said... volunteer, try to help the chinese community from a positiona of strength.
Good luck! |
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euroguy
Seeker
Joined: June 20, 2005
Posts: 41
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2005 - 04:11 PM |
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| Post subject: hihihihiihihhhi haahahahaha lololololol |
Suggest you stay were you are since with that atitude you will not find a job.
but just for the record;
I do not speak chinese
My english is not perfect
I am rather dumb:)
I am however friendly and like to work with people. Probably that is why I find an expat job with expat salary in Shanghai.
Or to be honoust:
I have a master degree in law and an MBA. I speak Dutch, French, English, German, a wee bit of Spanish and a wee bit of Chinese. I have management consulting experience and a did a management trainnee programm.
But do you realy think it is worthwile discussing this. Many Many Many people are smarter as us, have more experience than us, and are definetely more modest!!!!
I think however that you are extremely funny and that you should enter the comedy business in Shanghai, you might be very successful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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July 19, 2005 - 04:55 PM |
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But can you synthetize a glowing ball of pure intrinsic knowledge in the palm of your hands? Can you? |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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euroguy
Seeker
Joined: June 20, 2005
Posts: 41
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2005 - 05:21 PM |
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LOL!
Even in small sweet chinese hands you can! |
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Anniboodk
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 2788
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2005 - 05:31 PM |
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Let's not be too harsh on him. The poor guy is just curious about opportunities in China, Reverse_expat, you should really seperate your intensions in different posts. 1) Inquire about peoples experiences (career wise out here) and 2) post your resume under the classified section. I think you combining the two made it sound like you were just boasting about yourself on this thread.
First of all, yes, there are lot of great opportunities out here in China, but only if you have the required skill. In your post you state "I can take on a variety of positions, including but not limited to sales, trading, private equity, i-banking, professional baseball manager, film producer, mayor, consulting marketing, business development" This kind of gives off the impression that you're kind of lost for what to do and that you aren't exactly specialised in anything. Secondly, as some have mentioned, you must be ready to take a pay cut. I mean, unless you are sent out here by your current company on an expat package, you won't be paid as much here as you do in NYC. However, living cost are also lower (but can be just as high if you live a purely western lifestyle out here.)
You mentioned that your current job lacks significance...hmmm, I'm not sure that a desk job for some investment bank in Shanghai would make you feel any more significant. I'm not sure how you define significance, for me, that means that I'm making a difference, doing something truly worth while. Perhaps like some other people suggested, doing some volunteer work on the side might help you feel that you are contributing something good to society. It doesn't really matter where you work or live to do that.
Bottom line, if you are looking for a change of pace, a different experience come on over and start a new chapter, but do note that although people are all talking about Shanghai being THE place to be, this side of the grass isn't necessarily greener. Anyways, I know this isn't the insightful reply you had in mind, but just wanted to offer a little input.
Good Luck. |
_________________
Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there? I am going to eat the next thing that comes out of its butt." |
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zaq123
Reacher
Joined: July 19, 2005
Posts: 222
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2005 - 05:59 PM |
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| Post subject: Coolest jobs |
OK, I'm going to give you a serious answer. It may be true that your post wasn't exactly phrased in the most humble manner -nobody likes cheeky New Yorkers, especially bankers- but we're not necessarily here to make friends with everybody. This site is supposed to provide information.
It is diffifult to answer your question without knowing what you consider a "cool job". For some people this could mean a well paid job, but I gather from your post that this may be not all you're after. If you are looking for the big bucks then the best paid jobs are probably in investment banking and management consulting. It may be true that as a Chinese you may get paid less than a Westerner, but it is also true that the traditional expat is a dying breed. Most companies will eventually localize their staff, from low to high, so in the long run you're perspectives are a lot better, if that's what you're after. You probably already know that your package will be substantially better if you're hired overseas, or send over by your company.
As for what "expat" people do in Shanghai, there are too many different types to list. In terms of Westerners or non-Chinese you have the traditional expats who are a bit older, well paid, in management or technology positions who are on a contract for a couple of years. Then you have the (often younger) crowd of adventurers or China-lovers who either studied here and decided to stay a bit longer, or English language teachers, or wanderers who go from country to country and job to job. These people could be working in a wide-range of industries and professions.
And then there are the Asian expats, Hong Kongnese, Singaporeans, and Taiwanese, often returnees. The mainland Chinese returnees are probably the ones who are going to build up the country.
A minority are entrepreneurs, and they can come from anywhere, if they don't get burnt these may become the most succesful people in China.
As for myself, I'm Chinese but grew up overseas. Have been in Asia for over 10 years and I'm glad I ended up here. Have a well-paid and rewarding job working for a US company, but that's not the most important thing. It's nice that the people here look the same as you. My social life is richer. On top of that it's a great experience to be where all the action in the next century will be.
So it's all up to you. |
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guyintown
Seeker
Joined: May 08, 2005
Posts: 65
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
July 19, 2005 - 06:32 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: The Coolest Jobs |
| reverse_expat wrote: |
| My knowledge base encompasses law, business, philosophy, physics, biology, math, politics, history, finance and literature. Considering all my strengths, I can take on a variety of positions, including but not limited to sales, trading, private equity, i-banking, professional baseball manager, film producer, mayor, consulting marketing, business development. |
I think you forgot to mention skills such as singing, dancing, walking, running, driving, etc. As for a really cool job that can fulfill your ambitions, why not run for the mayor of Shanghai (none of us here in Shanghai can vote so I guess you'll have to start brown-nosing the top communist leaders in Beijing); at the same time provide consulting service to the central government on how to reduce corruption and people spitting on the street as well as taking on the top job in all 4 state owned banks since they don't seem to know what they're doing; and still have time to make a film about a baseball manager who has too big a head! |
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reverse_expat
Lurker
Joined: July 15, 2005
Posts: 25
Location: many possibilities
Status: Offline
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July 20, 2005 - 02:50 AM |
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Kika, Mrperegrino, Anniboodk, and Zaq, thanks for your substantial inputs. I want to flesh out some of points you raised.
By the lack of "significance", I mean that my job function doesn't get me in the middle of the action, doing deals, making decisions and taking risks. I am more of an observer/commentator of the market. Specifically, I analyze asset-backed securities, which essentially redistribute cashflow from an underlying pool of receivables into tranches of bonds that carry different interest rate and credit risks. Since the performance of each bond is a function of structural and collateral characteristics of the deal it comes from and these characteristics are numerous and not readily observable, there are no close-form solution to price these securities. In this respect, options are so much easier to price as all significant factors can be formulated in a differential equation, a particular solution of which is the famous Black-Scholes formula. However, the lack of close-form solution does imply that it's interesting to analyze asset-backed securities. (aside: my boss was a top three finisher in China's nationwide math contest -- that, my friends, is what I call smart) Albeit they have more of a story behind it besides simply numbers (as in the case of agency passthroughs and CMO's), ABS deals have little variety and innovation. Plus, the margin/commissions on doing these deals is merely 0.4%, compared to a stock IPO where commissions can amount to 5%.
Being stuck in a product area with thin margin and potentially declining volume (driven by rising interest rates), and in a function that doesn't inspire me, I definitely want out of the current situation. I am young enough to completely switch tracks, but too old (approaching 29) to go into an area blindly. That is why I want to gather information on all the fields that I am interested in. Obviously, not everything in my list is super realistic (e.g. movie producer, baseball manager), I just want to bounce around some ideas. Like I said, I have very good intuition which can be applied in many types of businesses. As to money, I am fully aware of the pay differential btw the States and China. It's not a big concern to me if the upside of an opportunity is sufficient.
Sooooo.... after all that, hopefully you guys have a clearer picture of my motivation. I am not here to show off or to entertain hecklers. I am not so naive as to think that I would "be welcomed home to sit at the banquet like a prodigal son" (I like the sarcasm). I am here to generate mutually beneficial discussions. Can you guys offer some insights? Maybe you can start by sharing more about your experience. How did you land in the situation you are in? through your employer or your own gig? If you have your own gig, where did you get the capital? (P.S., my uncle is working on what I call "grassroot investment banking" projects in China, basically serving as an intermediary between those who have money to invest and those who need money to run companies) What kind of company do you work in and what is your capacity? What do you like about it? dislike about it? What are your plans? |
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Benoist_Shanghai
Low Seater
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 3057
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July 20, 2005 - 07:07 AM |
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| reverse_expat wrote: |
| I am here to generate mutually beneficial discussions. |
Mutually? How's that? 
b. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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July 20, 2005 - 08:33 AM |
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Like I said, I have very good intuition which can be applied in many types of businesses.
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Can you synergize the telluric fluids into potential applications for the plant safety market? Is so, I have a job of senior consultant for you, please PM me. |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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guyintown
Seeker
Joined: May 08, 2005
Posts: 65
Status: Offline
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July 20, 2005 - 01:21 PM |
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| frenchlover1999 wrote: |
Can you synergize the telluric fluids into potential applications for the plant safety market? Is so, I have a job of senior consultant for you, please PM me. |
Hey frenchlover, you're sarcastic, funny & I just realised that you're persistent too  (and the last remark was meant to be a compliment). I just didn't even feel like responding after reading reverse_expat's latest message. Yet as I scrolled towards the last posting, there you were, early in the morning writing to respond (albeit a very brief one). You don't give up on any chance to deal with BS, do you?
reverse_expat, your pursue of "significance" seems to be the pursue of accumulating lots of money, to be at the centre of attention so that it may satisfy your ego, and to be able to wine and dine luxuriously. I suggest you look into role models such as Michael Milken and Bernard Ebbers. |
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delatroy
Talker
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Shanghai, Ireland
Status: Offline
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July 21, 2005 - 02:39 PM |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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July 21, 2005 - 04:21 PM |
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Frenchlover |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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IAmNotYao
Reacher
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 228
Location: Lost
Status: Offline
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July 21, 2005 - 07:09 PM |
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Racial profiling in China is worst than US. I love it how it works in the corporate world, and also in Chinese society. Great to be white colored in a yellow society (most of the time)...
| mrperegrino wrote: |
Kika is right on.. the Corp. tandard in China is that if you are a returning Chinese, "banana", or whatever, your value is set at 80% of your western co-workers. My best friend is going through Salarynegotiations right now, and it is a rule he was slapped in the face with. He's considered a "half-pat". But at least he's at 80%, a native chinese would only be at 60% at best. Education, experience, and talent do not outweigh that idiotic rule.
If you absolutely have to be part of the growth explosion here, come as an owner invester, it is the only way you will be treated with any value. Use your expertise and gather some investers together, come here and start your own JV or Multinational...
But down come here expecting to be welcomed home to sit at the banquet like a prodigal son... sure the Gov wants it's foreign educated chinese back... institutional racism is alive and well.
Like Kika said... volunteer, try to help the chinese community from a positiona of strength.
Good luck! |
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mantis.killer
Reacher
Joined: June 27, 2005
Posts: 309
Status: Offline
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July 21, 2005 - 08:25 PM |
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Ermm, did anyone ask his resume with the necessary references? I think this is that thai fella who is MIA...lol |
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a posse ad esse |
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reverse_expat
Lurker
Joined: July 15, 2005
Posts: 25
Location: many possibilities
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 07:16 AM |
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Come on, people. Is it too much to ask for some insights on this subject? Let's get some ideas going here. |
_________________
But, I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to ****' amuse you? |
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lafite
Reacher
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 230
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 07:46 AM |
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Reverse_expat,
I don't think you will get many responses with you job interview like posts.
I was kinda in the same situation as you (without any of your skills and can't use the word synthesize in a sentence, wait just did
All I can say is find your passion and follow it. |
_________________
http://www.rubyred.com.cn - The best fine wine experience in Shanghai |
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lafite
Reacher
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 230
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 07:47 AM |
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Reverse_expat,
I don't think you will get many responses with you job interview like posts.
I was kinda in the same situation as you (without any of your skills and can't use the word synthesize in a sentence, wait just did
All I can say is find your passion and follow it. |
_________________
http://www.rubyred.com.cn - The best fine wine experience in Shanghai |
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reverse_expat
Lurker
Joined: July 15, 2005
Posts: 25
Location: many possibilities
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 08:00 AM |
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Thanks, lafite, for your input. I understand that my initial approach is probably over the top and could be misconstrued to be something it is not. I am less interested in getting a job in shanghai than bouncing around some ideas with people on this forum about career and business in shanghai. I just want to know the kind of stuff expats are doing over there. Could you offer something in that regard? |
_________________
But, I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to ****' amuse you? |
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Anniboodk
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 2788
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 08:09 AM |
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It seems that many of the expats I have met out here (including myself) are in the following industries:
Manufacturing
Export/Import
Logistics |
_________________
Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there? I am going to eat the next thing that comes out of its butt." |
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rolento
Raver
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 379
Location: paperbag
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 09:28 AM |
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hi reverse expat,
I think you should come here and stay for 2 weeks and figure out yourself what you can do here.
most pple from my country are 2 extremes, one extreme thinks you can get robbed anytime if you are not a local in shanghai, and it is a crap place. the other extreme thinks that as long as you are willing to step into shanghai, money will just fall from the sky due to the huge huge population here.
I came last june for a holiday and realize that it's not as thought. we can give you 101 suggestions and insights but we may be wrong in your context. with your current job, i am sure buying a ticket here and spend 2 weeks for leisure is not that difficult. expats here do a lot of things, from declaring holidaying as a job, to language teachers, to managers. i am lucky to be able to say hello to a illegal arms dealer from russia...so it really depends what you want in life. to see is to believe (although not always)
by the way, being a film producer is not easy. it may even be harder than the job you are doing now. i cannot comment for the other jobs you list, but i know what its like to be in a film set. and unless you are doing it for 90% passion 10% income, you wont want it as a JOB. my 2 cents. |
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rolento photography |
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will8888
Squeeker
Joined: June 14, 2005
Posts: 13
Status: Offline
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July 28, 2005 - 09:37 AM |
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I'd try not to synthesize too much - it can be quite painful.
My mate does not have an MBA, does not have a law degreee, failed maths, physics, science and politics, does not speak mandarin and at times struggles to string a few coherent sentences together, however, he now heads up a trading desk at an MNC in Shanghai...making five times more than I, who does have an MBA and a law degree, speaks three languages fluently (including Chinese)...and was 1996 district spelling bee champion (under 21 division).
Admittedly though he is a gwei-lo, is hung like a horse and looks like a GQ model...and there "reverse expat" lies the secret to your success....it's not what you know but whose boss's wife wants to sleep with you. |
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