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have u worked towards cultural integration?

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Shanghai Expat Forum Index » Community Discussion Forums » Chinese Culture Discussions

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xiao1xiao

Newbie

Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 4

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 11, 2003 - 11:05 AM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

hi, there, this is a newcomer.
i am a chinese now studying at US. as a social science major, globalization is one of the hot topics these days. as we both constitute the transnational flow of people, i \'m just curious of our experiences in other cultures. for me, a student completely depending on scholarship, i am afraid that i cannot afford to involve myself in american/western culture---basically i interact with my chinese friends and have some rather simple and inexpensive entertainments. in this sense, comparatively speaking, i lack the access (money in this case) to shop the global cultural supermarket. then i cannot help thinking of what happens to u guys, the expatriates in shanghai who are often assumed to be much better off. i suppose many of you are financailly capable to enjoy any life u prefer in shanghai, yet, do u really bother learning, communicating, and becoming appreciated chinese culture? or u just live in various kinds of ghettos of ur own and also only hang around with ur western friends? have u already made some real good chinese friends?

kellian

Barker

Joined: Jan 05, 2003
Posts: 168
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 12, 2003 - 04:18 PM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

hey xiaoxiao,
it\'s a tough call! Sometimes it\'s difficult to integrate into Chinese culture while still maintaining your American (in my case) identity. There\'s nothing I hate more than people who deny their own culture and heritage in order to be accepted into another. For instance I have a friend who\'s taken a job in a propaganda film potraying an American soldier- he just has to pretend to shoot people. I go out with my boyfriend\'s friends (he\'s shanghainese) and have a really tough time when they repeat everything I say in mandarin and laugh- or say \"ta ting bu dong ting bu dong\" in a funny voice over and over again when they\'re speaking shanghainese- which I don\'t have a prayer at understanding. My boyfriend swears its not an insult in their culture. They also call my best friend fat daily. And make lots of references to me being cute and stupid. Maybe it\'s not a bad thing in Chinese culture- but my point is that integrating into Chinese culture when not in a University setting takes a huge peice of humble pie. In fact maybe the whole pie. Sometimes to me it feels downright degrading. I know they don\'t mean it, and it doesn\'t mean I\'m not trying, it just means its hard and I get called stupid a lot. Smile

Anonymous
Guest

Posted: Feb 12, 2003 - 04:53 PM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

I\'m curious about the second poster: why doesn\'t your boyfriend stand up for you? I think you should be asking yourself that rather than simply letting his \"friends\" walk all over you. Simple respect as a human being has nothing to do with culture, and you shouldn\'t let people take advantage of you.

Anonymous
Guest

Posted: Feb 13, 2003 - 12:09 AM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

To the original poster, I don\'t think lack of money would keep you from socializing with non-Chinese students. Most grad students I\'ve known were on scholarships and most students in general were adverse to spending more money that absolutely necessary on entertainments. Most people would just hang out in each others dorms, apartments, etc. If you really want to make an effort to have some non-chinese friends, it\'s possible to do so without spending money. Don\'t let that stop you.

nak318

Lurker

Joined: Jan 26, 2003
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 18, 2003 - 02:28 PM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

Hi X1X,
I am American but was in a similar situation to you when I was in college -- I attended an expensive private school on scholarship and found that I couldn\'t afford the lifestyle that some students chose. But there are a LOT of options, and not all foreigners spend tons of money on their social lives.

If you want to go out: I don\'t know where you are living, but if it\'s in an area large enough to have an orchestra, theatre, ballet, etc. you can look for something called \"Rush Tickets\". These are tickets you buy the night of the performance, so they are not guaranteed, but they are only $5-$10! I went to this type of performance all the time with my (American) friends. Other options -- you can go to a bar or club but not drink -- the drinks are what makes a night out expensive, usually. Many bars and clubs have no cover charge, so you can just buy one drink and it won\'t be too expensive. Unfortunately, it\'s almost impossible to go out for dinner cheaply in the United States, unless you want to go to McDonalds. Smile

The best way around this is to tell your friends you\'ll meet them later, after dinner. Going to a movie or out for coffee are also not too expensive.

If you don\'t need to go out, there are lots of Americans who also don\'t go out that much. At American colleges, at least, lots of students like to have a \"bar\" (collection of alcohol) in their room and save money by drinking at home. I had some friends in college who would spend every Friday at home and just invite other people to come over. (By the way, to everyone reading this, though a lot of heavy drinking goes on at American colleges, a lot of responsible drinking goes on too.) Also, not everyone drinks -- there is a sizable minority (maybe 30%) of American college students who don\'t drink at all. They tend to just like to hang out and talk.

The most important thing, at least that I have found, in being friends with people from other cultures is that you must be humble and willing to accept other viewpoints even if they seem absurd to you. This is *especially* true when you are on \"their\" turf, i.e. while living in China, I should not attack Chinese policies or ways, and vice versa for you.

I would say that the second most important thing I\'ve learned is to have very thick skin/face. When I first came to China, I got offended by some things that I later realized were never meant to offend. I have also seen, in America, foreign students have trouble making friends with Americans because they get offended when there was no offense intended, or where it is not socially acceptable to be offended. For example, Americans use a lot of sarcasm, which can be confusing. Once a Chinese friend of mine was five minutes late, and I told her next time I would leave without her. This was meant to be a joke, but she got offended. So to be friends either A) I had to be less sarcastic, or B) she had to learn not to take offense so easily. We ended up doing some of both, but you will be much less likely to get a whole group of Americans to compromise -- this is why you will have to at least accept their ways, if not practice them.

Often, the segregation by culture that happens at universities or anywhere else has a lot to do with fatigue. At the end of a long day, you are probably tired and don\'t want to struggle with speaking English, trying to understand the subtle differences in culture, etc. I know that I would like to make some expat friends here just to have someone to speak my native language with. It\'s natural. But if you can overcome that -- or maybe you already have? I don\'t know -- then money should not stop you from having foreign friends.

And to answer your question, I am new to Shanghai, but so far ALL of my friends are Chinese. I don\'t know any foreigners (aside from the names I see on this forum -- but I\'ve never met any of them). I sometimes think I get along better with Chinese than Americans. Smile

To Kelliann: On one hand, the whole \"ting bu dong\" thing is quite possibly not intended to offend. And Chinese people are much quicker to call each other fat than westerners. After six months of not seeing each other, the first thing one local friend said to me was \"Oh, you got fat!\" -- and I was only 10 pounds heavier. Also, I sense there\'s a slight difference in the languages. In English, we say \"fat\" as if there\'s a threshold, and once you\'ve passed it, you are branded with the Fat stamp. In Chinese, it\'s \"ni3 fei2 le\", which, as I understand it, means \"you have expanded\", so maybe it should be translated as \"you\'ve put on some weight\". Of course, if your friends\' friends call him a big fat piggie, then disregard what I\'ve said.

On the other hand, I don\'t think it\'s OK in any culture for them to call you stupid, and perhaps the other poster was correct in saying your boyfriend should defend you. And if you don\'t get along with your boyfriend\'s friends, you should stick up for yourself and refuse to hang out with them. If your boyfriend is half as accepting as you have been, he\'ll understand.

kellian

Barker

Joined: Jan 05, 2003
Posts: 168
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 08:32 AM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

hi- as a reply to the third post: laughing at someone\'s chinese isn\'t really an insult in Chinese the way it is in American culture. So I get all offended, but they don\'t mean it as an insult at all, they think they\'re just trying to be friendly. Same as when people correct your Chinese tones, they just think they\'re being nice. You say \"yeah right,\" to that explanation- I did at first too- but now I believe it because its happened with people that genuinely like me, and cause I know my boy, if it were an actual insult he\'s not the type that wouldn\'t react.

Michael

Moderator

Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5321

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 09:58 AM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

Hey xiao1xiao...if I remember my college days.. most students hardly ever have enough money. Money should not stop you from making friends on campus. But I realize its scary and not easy.

Most of the foreigner I have met who come here really do care about making contact, having chinese friends and being exposed to the culture. Most foreigner will never integrate here, no matter how good their chinese language is. there are some obvious differences. However, I think many want to leave knowing they have helped understanding between different cultures in some small way. Most of the foreigners I know personally here are either bilingual or working hard on it. Most do not live a rich persons life style.

K.. you should get your boyfriend to teach you some snappy comebacks to those comments. Sometimes, folks think they need to gain face by making fun of someone else loosing face. Sometimes its good natured.. like american sarcasm and sometimes its not. There is probabliy a culturally correct way to deal with this. Any ideas?

_________________
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citylover

Talker

Joined: July 28, 2003
Posts: 88

Status: Offline

Posted: July 28, 2003 - 12:38 PM
Post subject: have u worked towards cultural integration?

Yes. \"Fat\" in chinese really means lucky. In chinese culture, bad name calling is usually a gesture of friendship and brotherhood. For instance, my best friends in shanghai call be \"lustful idiot\". That\'s my nick name. In my friend circle, everyone has a nasty nickname, such as \"Fat Neck\", \"Stupid Dick\", \"Little Thief\", ..., etc. To judge a true friendship here, you should observe if those guys will take an extra step to help you in times of difficulties. Good friends will do that.

Lee_High_2nd

Barker

Joined: Sep 01, 2003
Posts: 131

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 24, 2003 - 12:54 PM

Quote:

I go out with my boyfriend\'s friends (he\'s shanghainese) and have a really tough time when they repeat everything I say in mandarin and laugh- or say \"ta ting bu dong ting bu dong\" in a funny voice over and over again when they\'re speaking shanghainese- which I don\'t have a prayer at understanding. My boyfriend swears its not an insult in their culture. They also call my best friend fat daily. And make lots of references to me being cute and stupid. Maybe it\'s not a bad thing in Chinese culture- but my point is that integrating into Chinese culture when not in a University setting takes a huge peice of humble pie. In fact maybe the whole pie. Sometimes to me it feels downright degrading. I know they don\'t mean it, and it doesn\'t mean I\'m not trying, it just means its hard and I get called stupid a lot.

You boyfriend's friends are simply not nice. I don't think it's Chinese culture, just their personalities. When my ex-girlfriend (who's caucasian and jewish American) and I went out with my friends, they just treated her as nicely as if she were Chinese. All of them who spoke good English chatted with her nicely. When she occasionally tried to say something in Chinese, they were patient and helpful. Not a single mate laughed at her for anything whatsoever.

To beat the topic, I say. If I go to a country I want to live in for quite a long time (more than half a year). I will definitely learn the langauge and try to mix with the locals. I want to be treated as "one of them" where ever I go. But that's impossible at someplace. I just can't look Chinese, Czech, Argentine, Mayan and Yoruba at the same time, LOL~~. But I have confidence that if I speak the language without an accent and try to be one of them, I will be treated almost, if not completely, as "one of them". For me it's really important, because I'm interested in the culture, especially the way the people think and deal with the world and each other, much more than, say, the landscape. If I go to someplace for a long time, I go to be a local.

However, lots of westerners in China I know seem not want to get out of their expat "ghetto". Even some students of Chinese, they just hang out with expats and Chinese who are eager to practice their English. So they speak English all day and Chinese only in Class. In the weekends they party with expats in expat bars. In weekdays they have meals with expats. All in all, they just live in an expat bubble in China. I don't know why they come to China. Just to collect places like Guilin and Yangshuo? But to be just, I have to admit that their attitude is partially because of their inadequacy to communicate in Chinese (even for lots of students of Chinese), Especially Americans. They learn Chinese extremely slowly even they don't live in an expat bubble and are motivated and diligent.

sino_chino

Raver

Joined: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 395

Status: Offline

Posted: Dec 04, 2003 - 07:41 AM

Quote:

But to be just, I have to admit that their attitude is partially because of their inadequacy to communicate in Chinese (even for lots of students of Chinese), Especially Americans. They learn Chinese extremely slowly even they don't live in an expat bubble and are motivated and diligent.

You know the joke.....

A person that is able to speak three languages is trilingual.

A person that is able to speak two langauges is bilingual.

A person that is able to speak one language is an American.