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PopStar
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 1131
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  Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 07:22 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Ding Tai Feng - the Ultimate Disappointment |
We just got back from eating at Ding Tai Feng at Xintiandi, based on the rave review's found online. Has anyone else been there?? We could not have been more disappointed. The decor is great and the service was really good, but the food was less than anything we would call desireable. And 58 yuan for 20 mini-flavorless, dry xialongbao's is a disgrace - and the noodle soups. .. . had instant noodles for 1.70 from C-Store that were 100 times better.
Maybe they were having an off day but we (my partner is Chinese) found the mini-xialongbao's to be sticky, chewy and flavorless - and the braised beef noodle soup and the double cooked chicken soup noodles to be bland -- well, the beef soup actually tasted like sour water. The noodles in the chicken soup were downright strange in their texture.
Whats up with that rave reviews that call this the best place in the world??? It's totally cool if you think they were good, but don't you think it is an EXTREME stretch to say they are the ULTIMATE???? Having just eaten there, I have to convince myself that your review was actually an advertorial - an advertisement disguised as an unbiased personal review. Maybe not. I don't care. Don't really care that the NY Times at one time ranked them as one of the worlds top ten (were they referring to Shanghai location?? No. Taipei. Sadly, just as many things that morph into something less desirable when they end up in the mainland, I think the same thing is true here)
But what I do care about is finding 2 things: A) Fantastic xialongbao's and B) Amazing noodles! 
If you came across truly tasty and good quality noodles and/or xialongbao's anywhere, could you please share where? Thank you!! |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4763
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Sep 17, 2005 - 07:58 PM |
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Snippets, I can only think of three explanations:
1 - They were having an off day.
2 - You are impossible to please.
I wrote the review. It was not an advertorial. There was absolutely no money, free food, or any other incentives given by Dingtaifeng. They did not know I would be reviewing the place.
I've been in there a half dozen times over the past couple of months. The food has been consistently good.
I used to eat at their Taipei branch regularly. They are very reliable and high standard. They defined the standard for Xiaolongbao when I was in Taipei. For beef noodes they have plenty of rivals, but however you look at it they still rank highly.
How does the Shanghai branch compare to Taipei? Very well I would say.
I took a Japanese friend who grew up in Shanghai to the Xintiandi branch just last week and she agreed they were the best xiaolongbao she had ever had (we're talking about the miniature ones filled with soup here).
I will say that on my last visit the beef soup was a tad oily, and the amount of chili was distracting from the beef taste. It's usually better balanced. But still, if you find better beef noodles in Shanghai please tell me where.
Now. . . I do know an awful lot of Chinese who like to diss Dingtaifeng. Alot of Taiwanese make a religion out of bitching about the place. The main issue here is its pricing. They say you can buy equally good Xiaolongbao at the side of the road in Taipei for something like a 1/4 of the price. Well I still reckon the side-of-the-road version is just a different item - no comparison. |
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Snippets
PopStar
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 1131
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Sep 17, 2005 - 09:08 PM |
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MichaelT
Raver
Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Silicon Valley - > Shanghai
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Sep 17, 2005 - 09:47 PM |
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I second on Kiwi, the place has the best longbao I had in town.
There are a lot of different styles of shaolongbao and beef noodle soup, perhaps the Taiwanese version is not to your taste. |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4763
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2005 - 10:25 PM |
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| Snippets wrote: |
| What's the 3rd one? |
The third explanation for why you didn't like it?
It was a bit rude so I edited it out (but forgot to replace 'three' with 'two).
Reason number three was something like "You know nothing about Chinese food". Apologies!  |
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Snippets
PopStar
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 1131
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Sep 17, 2005 - 10:49 PM |
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Yeah, years of living here and even more years of being in a Chinese family, you're right.. I don't know anything. Thats one of the biggest things I have had to accept .... the longer I am here, the less I really do know.
Don't take things personally - I never singled you out -- there are many rave reviews of this place online (have a look on google) -- we just were really disappointed today and just like everything else that is posted on this site, we have a right to share with people our experience... maybe we are not alone in thinking this is not God's gift to the xialongbao world. Yeah, and my Chinese partner admits he knows nothing about Chinese food either.
The sad thing is we were SINCERELY hoping to get other suggestions about OTHER restaurants for xiaolongbaos' and noodles. Just had amazing noodles in Hangzhou a few days ago....
Congrats. You win. |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4763
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Sep 17, 2005 - 11:15 PM |
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Well look for Xiaolongbao everybody recommends the place in the Yuyuan Gardens. It is called Nanxiang Xiaolongbao or something. Make sure you get the right one because there are several restaurants in there.
But personally I think Nanxiang Xiaolongbao is bad quality and a complete rip off. It might have been good once, but these days it seems strictly for the tourists. I took my sister in there and I'll swear the crab xiaolongbao had no crab in them at all.
If you do want the crab version then I think that local restaurant chain that specializes in it is quite good. Wangjiasha(?). Can somebody help me out here? They have a branch on Beijing Rd. just beside Chengde Rd, and one on Nanjing Rd. not far from Shimen No. 1 Rd. Several other branches too but I forget where. The decor is very basic, and the noodles and other dishes are awful. But the crab xiaolongbao are good. Good value for money too.
For noodles I can't think of too much to recommend. Most noodles in Shanghai are nothing special. There is a place called Red Door or something on the top floor of Plaza 66 on Nanjing Rd. that is not bad. Suzhou style noodles I think. No MSG. Quite nice. And a cheaper option with a similar style is that local Suzhou(?) restaurant chain called Wuyue Renjia (or something). They have shops all over town. One upstairs on Shanxi Rd. about a 100m south of the Parkson dept store (Chinese sign only). Also not bad.
Not my favorite type of noodles though. I prefer the Taiwanese beef noodles or Cantonese style (egg noodles, rice noodles, stuff like that). Hard to find good ones in Shanghai. There is just nowhere in this city that I would really recommend for Cantonese rice noodles.
Oh, you could also try the beef noodles at Charmant on Huaihai Rd. near Fuxing Rd. Taiwanese style. Not bad. The soup has herbs and soy which they don't add in Dingtaifeng and comes out a darker color. It is a less natural taste. Not necessarily worse, just a different style. You might prefer it. |
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lemongrass
StreetBeater
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2330
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Sep 17, 2005 - 11:47 PM |
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kiwi am a little bit curious, are you some freelance writer for a certain food magazine? You seem to have a wide knowledge of where the best food is.
Pls ignore my question if that touches your privacy which you dont feel like exposing in public. |
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The_Meanderer
Fire-eater
Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 2740
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Sep 18, 2005 - 12:37 AM |
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Don't flame me for this but.....
*whispers* - I quite like Carrefoure xiaolongbao.
sorry |
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Last edited by The_Meanderer on Sep 18, 2005 - 08:34 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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Shalboot
Lurker
Joined: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 29
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Sep 18, 2005 - 05:36 AM |
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There used to be a shop for xialongbao and noodles on Maoming lu near Fuxing lu. I went there last week and it was gone. Does anyone know where it may have moved to? The food was good and inexpensive. It was always busy as well. |
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lafite
Reacher
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 230
Location: Shanghai
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Sep 18, 2005 - 09:48 AM |
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My brother and his wife went to Ding Tai Feng (Gubei branch) a few days ago
They raved about it, a tad expensive, but they said it was the best xialongbao they have had. And the service was fantastic.
I will visit next week and report back |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
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Sep 18, 2005 - 09:49 AM |
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When I was in Hangzhou a few weeks ago I had some noodles in a few places there. Man they were good. I haven't found anything comparible in Shanghai. |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4763
Status: Offline
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Sep 18, 2005 - 04:33 PM |
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| lemongrass wrote: |
kiwi am a little bit curious, are you some freelance writer for a certain food magazine? You seem to have a wide knowledge of where the best food is.
Pls ignore my question if that touches your privacy which you dont feel like exposing in public. |
No I'm not. I just write the very very occasional review for websites and stuff.
I try and keep a look out for decent food though, especially good Chinese food. I guess I like eating. |
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Joecrappie
Reacher
Joined: Apr 08, 2005
Posts: 209
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Sep 18, 2005 - 05:02 PM |
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| Post subject: Ding Tai Feng |
I went to Ding Tai Feng recently never having been to the Taipei location. I thought it was great. It was hands down way better than Yu Yuan. I haven't found anyplace near as good but I love xiaolongbao so if anyone has any other recommendations (especially in Pudong) that would be great. |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 2000
Location: this side of the tracks
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Sep 18, 2005 - 10:52 PM |
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Im a huge fan of Ding Tai Fun.
Havent tried the Shanghai branches but ate at the Suzhou location for about the dozenth time last week.
My local friends tell me its a ripoff but when I ask where I can get equally satisfying xiaolong bao at a cheaper price, they have no answer. No insult to them but I believe the criticism stems from the fact that theyre not used to blowing that kind of cash (last time it was 320 for two: 2 racks of crab, 2 other racks, 1 cai sin, 2 soups, 5 beers) on a meal.
Heres a tip: if you want to know how sanitary a restaurants keeps their kitchen and how important cleanliness is to a joint, check out their bathroom. The can in the Suzhou location is IMMACULATE. We were the last ones to leave last Thursday and when I used the hoop before I left, it was spotless. Three big thumbs up. |
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msittig
Rocker
Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Zhangjiang High-Tech Park
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Sep 18, 2005 - 10:54 PM |
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I can recommend a little hole-in-the-wall noodle place a block and a half east of Xintiandi; they have about 20 different kinds of noodles for between 5 and 10 RMB; the rickety sidewalk tables are always full of white-collar workers when I stop by for a bite to eat, and the owners are friendly folk... |
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cks69
Ranter
Joined: Aug 06, 2004
Posts: 562
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Sep 18, 2005 - 11:22 PM |
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I have to go with kiwi on this one...7 years and running in China (including Taiwan) and Din Tai Fung are some of the best Xiao Long Bao I have ever had. Skin is a dream, not too heavy, great flavor. Dandan mien and ganmien are really good too.
They MUST have had an off night or, according to Kiwi, reason #2 or 3.... |
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Snippets
PopStar
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 1131
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2005 - 11:55 PM |
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Ok, let me ask a question: other than size, is there a difference between the mini-xiaolongbao's and the normal sized ones? We only had the mini's -- was that our mistake?? |
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hamburgler
Lurker
Joined: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 29
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Sep 19, 2005 - 03:44 PM |
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There is a small stall on Taikang Lu, about 50 meters south of the the entrance to the art street, that has fantastic xiaolongbao. They also sell crayfish. About RMB 5 for eight, I think...worth checking out if you're not a clean freak (the place is damn dingy). |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 2000
Location: this side of the tracks
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Sep 19, 2005 - 07:54 PM |
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| Quote: |
*whispers* - I quite like Carrefoure xiaolongbao. |
Ive always wanted to get some of those frozen xiaolongbao but I have a hard time understanding the ingredients. Do they have crab ones? What brand do you prefer?
Im not expecting anything spectacular or anything to rave about.
Just a filling quick nosh when Im out of time or the munchies are coming on. |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4763
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| Posted:
Sep 19, 2005 - 11:05 PM |
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| Snippets wrote: |
| Ok, let me ask a question: other than size, is there a difference between the mini-xiaolongbao's and the normal sized ones? We only had the mini's -- was that our mistake?? |
The minis are my favorite personally. But different strokes for different folks. The big ones are more traditional. The minis seem to be a Dingtaifeng specialty thing.
I like the minis because they are easy to eat in a single bite. No exploding onto your shirt. No burned tongues (the small size means they cool fast).
Last time I was there I introduced the minis to my friend as "the xiaolongbao that'll change your life". After eating the first one she agreed that her life had taken a dramatic turn for the better. I have to admit though, I was watching her face as she at the thing and she betrayed surprisingly little emotion. Of course Orientals are notoriously inscruitable. |
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Anniboodk
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 2788
Location: Copenhagen
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| Posted:
Sep 20, 2005 - 08:42 AM |
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| bleucheese wrote: |
| Quote: |
*whispers* - I quite like Carrefoure xiaolongbao. |
Ive always wanted to get some of those frozen xiaolongbao but I have a hard time understanding the ingredients. Do they have crab ones? What brand do you prefer?
Im not expecting anything spectacular or anything to rave about.
Just a filling quick nosh when Im out of time or the munchies are coming on. |
The ones I buy aren't XiaoLong Baos but are really the best frozen dumplings you can buy at the supermarkets here are the brand called "Wan Chai" it comes in a yellow packet and there is a picture of the dumpling (as well as its ingrediences, e.g. picutre of a cabbage, a chillii pepper, pork) on the outside of the packet. You just boil them and eat them with some soup noodles and it's a quick and yummy meal! |
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kappakai
Raver
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417
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Oct 03, 2005 - 11:17 PM |
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ha... i just wrote about ding tai feng in another thread. i had xiao long bao for the first time when i was about 7 at ding tai feng in taipei. i had been on a search for good xiao long bao ever since. they are pretty lacking in the states, where i grew up. there were some good spots in nyc (shanghai joe's or lubuolan), but my fellow chinese always said they weren't quite how they're supposed to be. most times they were too dry, too meaty, or the skin was too thick. the ding tai feng in LA is ok, but the skin is too thick.
the ding tai feng in gubei was just how i remembered the one in taipei to be (well, the food anyway. the taipei one has no ac and is crowded, more like an eatery than a sit down restaraunt.) i've had xiaolongbao at other places in shanghai, but nothing is quite like ding tai feng. chances are you were there on an off day. i've been there on off days, and yah, it's not godly like some people say. i actually got food poisoning there, but have been back. best time to go is when its busiest. that way you can be sure your food is freshly cooked. and try the gubei one (18 shui cheng lu, north of hong qiao rd, at he ping guang chang.) i haven't been to the xintiandi store, but the gubei one is really top notch. |
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Snippets
PopStar
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 1131
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Oct 04, 2005 - 02:13 AM |
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Thank you kappakai!
You are very honest, fair and balanced and willing to tell it like it really is. |
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KJ
Ranter
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: Shanghai
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Oct 04, 2005 - 07:26 AM |
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I am going to agree with the majority here. I was introduced to Dintaifung in Taiwan. It is a little place with a walk through kitchen at the entrance. They are making the xiaolongbao right there as you walk in. We had to get there at 10:30 for lunch!!! We left at noon, and there was a line out the door. It was nothing short of fantastic, and energized me to seek out xiaolongbao in other places around the world (I did find a pretty good place in New York, and can look it up again if you are interested). Anyway, the Dintaifung locations in Shanghai don't have the charm of the place in Taiwan, but the food is just as good. Try the double boiled chicken soup. Oh my. And the dumplings, well, they speak for themselves. |
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