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Rio
Post Boaster
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 4724
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 Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 01:35 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Using marijuana to relieve pain from IBS |
What's your opinion on this? Is it bad to advice someone to use pot to relieve the pain and cramps? |
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DrMike
Reacher
Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 344
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 09:26 AM |
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One of the most common uses of Mj in the 19th century was for menstrual cramps, PMS and even Labor pains. Queen Victoria was given Cannabis during labor. It was usually taken as a 'tea' rather than being smoked. For a variety of reasons litle research has been done on this topic. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 10:50 AM |
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unfortunately one of the side effects of smoking marijuana is the high amounts of THC found in neural tissue. not a very nice compound to have in brain cells. there is a lot of debate about the risks vs benefits of using marijuana and the two opposing 'camps' are polarised over the argument. which i wont get into here. perhaps doing a net based search and reading what various pro and oppostion lobby groups have to say will give you a more balanced view? just keep in mind though, should one be caught with marijuana or indeed any illicit/illegal drug here in china or other asian countries, then the consequences can be and are indeed harsh. usually the death penalty is imposed. a laowai caught here will certainly at the very least cause an international incident. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
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Nov 01, 2005 - 11:14 AM |
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I agree with sinned69, marijuana use may be condoned in western countries but is no laughing matter in asia. You'd be taking less risks by trying traditional chinese medicine instead.
If you just want to smoke pot and need a good excuse, then that's ok too. But you should move to the Netherlands, or some other westerner countries where it is tolerated. Even the USA is an option, it might be illegal but you can get away with it if you are careful.
By-the-way the side effects are temporary but rather negative if you like using your brain. Don't get me wrong, I used to love to smoke out, but it had a very bad effect on my performance at school and at work. Better save it for vacations. |
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karnex420
Raver
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 11:51 AM |
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Yeah, better stick to tobacco and alcohol.
How can you fight a war unless you can think "clearly". |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 12:11 PM |
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How can you fight a war unless you can think "clearly".
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Is that some kind of slam on pot-smoking pacifists? Don't go there man. I can rail on the topic of war and will gladly defend the hippies if it comes down to it. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 01:12 PM |
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going back to the original question. there is a lot research past and ongoing into the beneficence of marijuana use in blocking nerve impulses (synapses) in pain management for sufferers of chronic disease conditions. mostly its positive statistics, but the downside is the residual THC left behind (see my earlier post). problem is that most countries do not have laws that allow the police the leniency to distinguish between recreational use and medicinal use of marijuana. china is no exception. anyone caught here faces a harsh reality check. (ofcourse guanxi excluded) |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3935
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Nov 01, 2005 - 01:18 PM |
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Cannibus has been used as a medicine for 5000 years!
It's only in the last 70 years it has been demonized as a menice to society.
| Quote: |
* Karen Wright, University of Bath
* National Association for Colitis and Crohn’s Disease
* Gastroenterology
Cannabis-based drugs could offer treatment hope to sufferers of inflammatory bowel disease, UK researchers report.
Cannabis smokers with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) have often claimed that smoking a joint seems to lessen their symptoms. So a group of researchers from Bath University and Bristol University, both in the UK, decided to explore the clinical basis for the claims.
“There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that using cannabis seems to reduce the pain and frequency of Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis, so we decided to see if we could find out what was going on there,” says Karen Wright, a pharmacologist at Bath University. “Historically, it was smoked in India and China centuries ago for its gastrointestinal properties.”
The chronic conditions, known collectively as IBD, are caused by an over-active immune system which produces severe inflammation in areas of the gastrointestinal tract. Up to 180,000 people in the UK are thought to have colitis or Crohn’s disease and suffer symptoms of pain, urgent diarrhoea, severe tiredness and loss of weight. Repeated attacks can lead to scarring of the colon and fibrosis to the extent that the bowel narrows to form a stricture, for which a colonectomy – the surgical removal of the bowel – is the only cure.
Repair trigger
Reports that cannabis eased IBD symptoms indicated the possible existence of cannabinoid receptors in the intestinal lining, which respond to molecules in the plant-derived chemicals. Wright and colleagues grew sections of human colon and examined them in vitro.
To their surprise, the team discovered CB1 cannabinoid receptors – which are known to be present in the brain – in the endothelial cells which line the gut. “I think they must be involved in repairing the lining of the gut when it is damaged,” Wright says.
She deliberately damaged the cells to cause inflammation of the gut lining and then added synthetically produced cannabinoids. “The gut started to heal: the broken cells were repaired and brought back closer together to mend the tears,” she told New Scientist.
Wright believes that in a healthy gut, natural endogenous cannabinoids are released from endothelial cells when they are injured, which then bind to the CB1 receptors. The process appears to set off a wound-healing reaction. “When people use cannabis, the cannabinoids bind to these receptors in the same way,” she said.
Excess cells
Previous studies have shown that CB1 receptors located on the nerve cells in the gut respond to cannabinoids by slowing gut motility, therefore reducing the painful muscle contractions associated with diarrhoea.
But Wright and her team also discovered another cannabinoid receptor, CB2, in the guts of IBD sufferers, which was not present in healthy guts. These receptors, which also respond to chemicals in cannabis, appear to be associated with apoptosis – programmed cell death – and may have a role in suppressing the overactive immune system and reducing inflammation by moping up excess cells, she suggests.
“Ideally we would want to be able to stimulate the body’s own endogenous cannabinoid system, which might become dysregulated during long-term inflammation. Knowing more about how this system actually works will help us to look for therapeutic targets,” Wright says. “We are not advocating cannabis use, particularly as smoking tobacco exacerbates Crohn's disease and many smokers of cannabis use tobacco as well.”
“Anything that offers hope is good news for sufferers of IBD,” says a spokesperson from the National Association for Colitis and Crohn’s Disease, commenting on the research." |
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Rio
Post Boaster
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 4724
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Nov 01, 2005 - 04:22 PM |
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What about people who want to get a proper job and are tested for drugs and then they find thc in their blood? But these people suffer from chronic IBS (or something else). They have tried everything to relieve pain but nothing has worked, as there are no medicine for IBS. Is marijuana the last solution and can it be addictive?
I am from the Netherlands myself, have used it in different ways (tea, cake, smoking). I know it can be addictive but it also depends on usage rate. I have talked to someone from America about this. She is very conservative and was blaming me for advising someone to use drugs. I might have well could advice her (the girl suffering from IBS) to use heroine, thats what she said to me. A bit of a blunt remark imho as heroine is totally different from cannabis. I don't blame her for saying though.
Is it also better to use pure marijuana? Not adding tobacco I mean? Maybe even better to use a vaporizer? |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3935
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Nov 01, 2005 - 04:41 PM |
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Mary Jane is the most misunderstood chick on the planet.
She is less addictive than sugar, chocolate or coffee.
I would say Mary Jane is the first solution for your problem not the last.
If you are looking at jobs that will test for these types of things,
then you should think about it more. I personally would not work
for a company like this.
In Canada, Mary Jane is prescribed by doctors, so if you have an illness
that marijuana is commonly prescribed for, you wouldn't have to worry.
I don't know where you are talking about? China? |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3935
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Nov 01, 2005 - 04:45 PM |
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I guess the problem here and most places is the legal factor.
Since usually people smoke it after a meal to prevent IBS,
it might be difficult to do this. Plus, being stoned at work
and such, is not always the best idea.
I would definately suggest you use it at home
and see if it's effects are noticable for your problem.
good luck. |
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Rio
Post Boaster
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 4724
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Nov 01, 2005 - 04:50 PM |
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I am talking about the States. She's living there and I know its not prescribed by doctors there. The thing about this girl is she's got no luck in life. Works at a fast food restaurant, has IBS, not lucky in her love life. I just want to help a little bit by giving her the right advice. I'm afraid she might get in trouble if she wants a better job than her current one. Oh I so not like conservative people. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 05:11 PM |
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"addictive" and "habit forming" are two different things, but we use the words almost interchangably.
Heroine, alcohol, nicotine and a number of other drugs are physically addictive.
All the research I've seen on marijuana shows that it is psychologically addictive, or in other words habit forming, like surfing the internet or eating cheese puffs.
I do think it is poor advice to tell someone to use cannabis for medicinal reasons if that person lives outside of the Netherlands. There are so many ways to treat pain that its almost impossible to say that you've tried everything and nothing works but pot. Therefore people will not readily believe you and think it is just a cop out so you can smoke out.
I don't really know what IBS is so I can't say whether or not marijuana is the only alternative, but I'm sure it isn't her only choice of pain medication. For every condition, disease, injury or whatever, there are multiple (if not hundreds) of treatments to choose from, most of which are legal.
The american who slammed you for advising pot might have been rude about it and perhaps exaggerates the implications of your advice, but at the same time I still agree with her; medical marijuana is not the best advise for most people.
If you WERE going to use it however, then I would definitely suggest to not smoke it, but rather take it orally in the form of pills or cakes. The cooking process destroys the little hairs on the buds which would normally upset your stomach. When cooking you should definitely use alot of oil or butter to bond the oils containing the THC to the food (remember high school chemistry class "likes dissolve likes" ). My favorite is brownies, with lots of chocolate to make it palatable.
The effect from smoking may be more intense but is short-lived (maybe one or two hours), eating brownies however will give a high and relieve some kinds of pain or irritation for at least 4 to 6 hours. Also the toxins released by burning the stuff in a joint are much more harmful to you than the toxins found in normal tobacco, and thanks to the new packaging on cigarettes we all know how harmful tobacco is to our health. If the pain is really bad then perhaps you would have to increase the concentration.
A normal concentration (in my opinion) is using the proportions as follows: 1 ounce of dried buds to one 12" cake pan of brownies, use your favorite receipe or instant mix but be sure to cook the buds with the oil or butter before combining; dosage about one 3" square brownie per dose, three or four times a day.
B |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 05:22 PM |
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Just noticed your last post Rio.
This girl definitely does not need to be smoking pot. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Nov 01, 2005 - 05:49 PM |
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in all reality this young lady needs to be advised to seek out a pain therapist. i assume she has a regular physician whom knows this womans case history etc. if not then this part of the problem, as she may bounce form one therapist to another, without a real overview of her condition and subsequent appropiate coping/pain modalities being trialled etc.
the advice you should give is, for her to seek out a health professional if she hasn't already. then to be assisted by a pain therapist who can help her develop a pain management plan.
she should also find a support group with sufferers of this chronic condition, that can help her develop coping mechanisms and so she can better understand her condition and how best to minimise and cope with it.
thats the prudent advice she needs... |
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Rio
Post Boaster
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 4724
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| Posted:
Nov 01, 2005 - 10:50 PM |
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Ok, I agree with both of you. But you cant cook cannabis, thats why people use hashish for brownies. But I get your point benkloepfer. IBS is a functional bowel disorder of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract characterized by recurrent abdominal pain and discomfort accompanied by alterations in bowel function, diarrhea, constipation or a combination of both, typically over months or years. But anyway, I wasn't the one suggesting her to use cannabis, it was her boyfriend and group of friends who suggested this and she asked for my opinion on this. My first reaction was no, but then she told me of how she has done everything to relieve pain and I told her, maybe you can try it but with supervision of your boyfriend and see what the reaction of your body is on the usage. But you have made valid points imo. thanks. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Nov 02, 2005 - 09:52 AM |
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Of course you can cook cannabis. You don't really have to actually eat the stuff that way though, like I said before, its all in the butter. Chop it up fine, simmer in a stick of butter for 15 or 20 mins, then strain the butter through a cheese cloth and throw away the sticks and leaves. After the butter cools you'll have a green paste with some residual plant matter and alot of THC. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Nov 02, 2005 - 09:53 AM |
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By the way, it sounds like your friend just has a bad case of the sh*ts and needs to quit eating where she works. |
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ShitPoolHopping
Newbie
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 5
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 02, 2005 - 10:07 AM |
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| Post subject: Re: Using marijuana to relieve pain from IBS |
| Rio wrote: |
| What's your opinion on this? Is it bad to advice someone to use pot to relieve the pain and cramps? |
Yes. esp. when there might be better ways to heal and relieve the pain and cramps other than that shita.
when addiction is developed therefrom, you are just having your life and health ruined in a same shitay way - to me it makes no difference really. And if there ever is any difference, I'd say to die fighting against the pain is f*cking a lot better than to die in numb feeling no pain no cramps no sense of satisfaction and achievement. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Nov 02, 2005 - 10:30 AM |
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not very eloquent but I agree with you, poolhopper |
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jenming
FooJay
Joined: Dec 20, 2002
Posts: 1675
Location: Right where you wanna be
Status: Offline
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Nov 02, 2005 - 11:01 AM |
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good posts, benkloepfer!
pardon my ignorance, but where are you from? |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 02, 2005 - 11:27 AM |
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| benkloepfer wrote: |
| not very eloquent but I agree with you, poolhopper |
I don't agree at all. Among other things Cannabis is not addictive, and there is no nobility in dying in extreme pain. They have super strong pain killers for a reason (much stronger than THC). |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3935
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Nov 02, 2005 - 11:32 AM |
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ShitPoolHopping,
Seems your views on Cannibus are skewed (or should I say screwed!)
You most likely think of some drop-out hippy when you think of the plant.
Why not try thinking of a A.I.D.S patient who has lost 60 lbs
and can only keep food down by using this MEDICINE.
Propoganda is a powerful tool and the proof is in the ignorance all around us.
Seriously, inform yourselves first, before telling others
your uninformed views on things that have importance to so many.
"Cannabis sativa, L.
Safe, Effective, Natural Medicine
The medical use of the cannabis plant goes back at least 5,000 years to ancient China, where the emperor Shen Nung listed it in his classic pharmacopeia, the Pen Ts'ao. It is also listed in the medical works of India including the famous Hindu surgeon Susruta, and the Roman physicians Pliny and Galen. Most of the herbal guides of the Moslem and European cultures also gave frequent reference to its medical value, and cannabis was one of the world's primary medicines for millenia on end.
Used by most of the world's cultures for its healing properties, there was a tremendous burst of medical research in the 19th century. Cannabis was listed in medical texts of the last century as a treatment for over 100 different health conditions, and Queen Victoria's personal physician wrote in praise of its therapeutic value. When the ban was proposed in 1937, the AMA went before Congress to oppose the law and specifically protested that the Marijuana Tax Act was a fraud because the plant's scientific name is Cannabis sativa, its English name is True Hemp, and no one at the time knew that the ban would affect the essence of medicine, agriculture and industry -- until it was too late.
Access to effective medicine and quality health care are listed as fundamental human rights in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Medical use is specifically allowed by the Single Convention Treaty. It is cruel to deny sick and dying people this effective medicine and inhumane to punish patients whose very quality of life depends on access to cannabis."
"Medicinal Value
Marijuana is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known. No one has ever died from an overdose, and it has a wide variety of therapeutic applications, including:
• Relief from nausea and appetite loss;
• Reduction of intraocular (within the eye) pressure;
• Reduction of muscle spasms; and
• Relief from chronic pain.
Marijuana is frequently beneficial in the treatment of the following conditions:
AIDS. Marijuana can reduce the nausea, vomiting, and loss of appetite caused by the ailment itself and by various AIDS medications.
Glaucoma. Marijuana can reduce intraocular pressure, alleviating the pain and slowing—and sometimes stopping—damage to the eyes. (Glaucoma is the leading cause of blindness in the United States. It damages vision by increasing eye pressure over time.)
Cancer. Marijuana can stimulate the appetite and alleviate nausea and vomiting, which are common side effects of chemotherapy treatment.
Multiple Sclerosis. Marijuana can limit the muscle pain and spasticity caused by the disease, as well as relieving tremor and unsteadiness of gait. (Multiple sclerosis is the leading cause of neurological disability among young and middle-aged adults in the United States.)
Epilepsy. Marijuana can prevent epileptic seizures in some patients.
Chronic Pain. Marijuana can alleviate the chronic, often debilitating pain caused by myriad disorders and injuries.
Each of these applications has been deemed legitimate by at least one court, legislature, and/or government agency in the United States.
Many patients also report that marijuana is useful for treating arthritis, migraine, menstrual cramps, alcohol and opiate addiction, and depression and other debilitating mood disorders.
Marijuana could be helpful for millions of patients in the United States. Nevertheless, other than for the seven people with special permission from the federal government, medical marijuana remains illegal under federal law!
People currently suffering from any of the conditions mentioned above, for whom the legal medical options have proven unsafe or ineffective, have two options:
1. Continue to suffer without effective treatment; or
2. Illegally obtain marijuana—and risk suffering consequences directly related to its illegality, such as:
• an insufficient supply due to the prohibition-inflated price or scarcity;
• impure, contaminated, or chemically adulterated marijuana;
• arrests, fines, court costs, property forfeiture, incarceration, probation, and criminal records." |
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bellabella
Gypsy Queen
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 14989
Location: London
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 02, 2005 - 11:47 AM |
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Good post Lifemage, I think there are alot of people with very closed minds around that can only see straight ahead. |
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timiD
Lurker
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 29
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Nov 02, 2005 - 12:27 PM |
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probably the poolhopper was having something else in mind when posting that one |
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