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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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 Posted:
Jan 04, 2006 - 05:16 PM |
 
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| Post subject: The limitations of the Chinese language |
I noticed many English words do not have any equivalent in Chinese. I was in the subway next to 3 Shanghainese people, speaking their dialect. I noticed they used many English words. I decided to compile a small list of important words that we have in English and other languages but that are not available in Chinese, thus limiting the topics that locals can discuss. The list includes:
Big screen
Specific
Station
Box
Another related topic, have you noticed that when near a foreigner, some locals will switch to English even when talking to other locals. Of course most of the times they can only use limited vocabulary, like "hello" "let's go" and the like. Its completely unconscious I think. I found it even works when they dont know there is a foreigner around. In the same subway I was behind a guy, who did not see me. I was standing quite far and he kept receiving phone calls, making loud "wei"s. Later I had to move closer to him, approx 30 cm, and at the next call he said "hello" instead of "wei". Radar technology or something.
If I was a scholar I would write a thesis on those two subjects. Perhaps that would give me the opportunity to go back to France where our inept government would probably give me a research grant to study those topics so vital to our nation. |
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That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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Henry_Chinaski
Board Lord
Joined: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 5025
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:06 PM |
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Critical words missing in mandarin:
1-Logic
2-Sarcasm
3-Irony |
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acujerjer
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 7770
Location: up your butt and around the corner
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:10 PM |
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Those words are in Mandarin actually. They have many words English doesn't have. Like the sound a leaf makes when it hits the ground. There is an actual character for that. |
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acujerjer:This is an American, also is everywhere provokes the young woman the dandy. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:13 PM |
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Oh boring can't you guys stay on topic, especially you Acu? |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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acujerjer
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 7770
Location: up your butt and around the corner
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:19 PM |
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Wait up. That isn't right what I said. There is a character for a sound that can be used for the sound of a leaf falling. Xiao xiao you can say. There is also another xiao that is the sound of a tiger roar. |
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acujerjer:This is an American, also is everywhere provokes the young woman the dandy. |
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imfine2
Seeker
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 52
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:30 PM |
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frechlover1999, I also noticed that many Frenchmen in Shanghai also speak Mandarin although they only know a few Chinese words, such as ¡°ni hao¡± ¡°zai jian¡± ¡°xiexie¡± etc. Does that mean you don¡¯t have these words in your mother tongue? |
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Copyright by imfine2. All rights reserved  |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:33 PM |
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How to translate "thick" into Chinese? |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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imfine2
Seeker
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 52
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:38 PM |
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How to translate "ȓ" into English? |
Last edited by imfine2 on Jan 04, 2006 - 06:57 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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acujerjer
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 7770
Location: up your butt and around the corner
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Jan 04, 2006 - 06:46 PM |
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Good one. Which one? Hou or Nong? Cu da de? chou?
how about thin?
bao de? Xi de? shou de?
It's a fuuked up language to learn man. |
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acujerjer:This is an American, also is everywhere provokes the young woman the dandy. |
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chinamanshuffle
Seeker
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 46
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 07:08 PM |
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| frenchlover1999 wrote: |
| How to translate "thick" into Chinese? |
no, no, Flove. Don't get all wound up. I think the point is that they are not using the english because there are no words for them in chinese (or shanghainese) but because maybe they are just trying to show that they have been to school, took some english classes, are educated, cosmopolitan whatever. And for things like big screen, well, that's like english speakers using words like apertif, quiche (is that how you spell it, french boy?) etc.: With the imported product came the imported language.
Maybe the government shouldn't give you a grant, you don't seem to be a very discerning analyst when it comes to the pointless thinkables. Stick to the gear boxes and small-time imperialism. |
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imfine2
Seeker
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 52
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 07:21 PM |
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Fidel, I guess you intended to write "Cao Ni", instead of "Cai Ni". LOL~~~~ |
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Copyright by imfine2. All rights reserved |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 04, 2006 - 07:25 PM |
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I think HC's post was the only relevant one. What are the moderators doing? |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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imfine2
Seeker
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 52
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 07:44 PM |
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Regarding "Re Ni', I guess you actually refer to " Ri Ni"... LOL~~~~~ |
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Copyright by imfine2. All rights reserved |
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acujerjer
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 7770
Location: up your butt and around the corner
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Jan 04, 2006 - 07:50 PM |
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I've never heard of cai ni. I don't think anyone else has besides Fidel. |
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acujerjer:This is an American, also is everywhere provokes the young woman the dandy. |
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GC
The Ginger Prince
Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 21531
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Jan 04, 2006 - 07:52 PM |
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Scots and Irish Gaelic is another example of a language that has no equivalent for many English words introduced in the last 50 odd years. |
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You turned on the lights, Fuelled U boats by night, That's how you repay us, It's time to go home. |
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lemongrass
StreetBeater
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2324
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Jan 04, 2006 - 08:36 PM |
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Frank I dont really get what you mean by the list. Of course all of these words have the corresponding translations in Chinese. What did you imply then? As for the guy's shifting "wei" to "hello" thing, I personally find it quite odd. As far as I am concerned, most of Chinese are not very confident on speaking English in public regardless of their excellent reading and writing skills unless they have to do so to please boss or whatever, because you know, Chinese is a nation that cares super much about "losing face" thing. Ordinary people seldom talk in a foreign language to each other in public coz they would be afraid of being laughed at. (NOtice that speaking Mandarin with broken English words like hello, goodbye doesnt count here) You must misunderstand that cell-phone guy, he was very likely to seek the attention from someone else, instead of you. You French man is so sensitive.
After all, only courageous person like me not afraid of losing face even sings in English loudly at subway.
BTW is there anyone that is able to explain why people have to drive in "parkway" while park the car in "driveway"? American logic?! |
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Missing home! |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 04, 2006 - 09:30 PM |
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I really thought those words did not exist in Mandarin. My mistake. I should study more and be more modest. I will learn from the Chinese. |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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maodaman
Barker
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 183
Location: maotown
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 10:08 PM |
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this might be off the topic but I think Chinese are much more efficient than English once you can master it. you can read newspaper if you know about 1000 Chinese characters, no way for English. give you a example, there are thousands of types of fish, for English speaker, you will have to remember thousands of different vocabulary in order for you to know the word stands for a fish, but we Chinese simply add the word "yu" behind the word so you know it is some type of fish. |
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there is NO god |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Jan 04, 2006 - 11:55 PM |
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I know about 800 characters, but there is no way I can read a newspaper. I get lost pretty quickly. The main issue is that even though I can read the characters literally, I still don't know the word. So I might be able to read 但是and know this literally is dan4 shi4, but not know that this means "but". |
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maodaman
Barker
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 183
Location: maotown
Status: Offline
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Jan 05, 2006 - 12:03 AM |
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the word "dan" means but. how can you not knowing ’dan shi" means "but" ?
btw, you do need to learn the grammar as well, same for all languages. |
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MaomingMaster
Board Legend
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 11059
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Jan 05, 2006 - 12:06 AM |
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I have no idea if the word sarcasm exists in Chinese (why should I?) and frankly don't care to learn.
But I do know that the Chinese have no understanding of sarcasm. This I have a ball with.
Hey what about Nipponhua?
They have tons of English words that have been Nipponhua-ised.
Yoghurt - Yoghurto
Scanner - Scannero
To name but only two.
The Chinese have their own linguistic versions of hamburger, pizza and sandwich. When they ask me how to say in English one of their popular dishes I retort with why would I know? In Blighty we wouldn't dare eat such slop you laughingly refer to as food. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Jan 05, 2006 - 12:10 AM |
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| maodaman wrote: |
the word "dan" means but. how can you not knowing ’dan shi" means "but" ?
btw, you do need to learn the grammar as well, same for all languages. |
Ok, that's a crappy example. But hopefully you get the idea of what I'm talking about. Because there are no spaces its also easy to get lost in the text if you don't know the words (ie: is this word one or two characters). |
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maodaman
Barker
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 183
Location: maotown
Status: Offline
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Jan 05, 2006 - 12:28 AM |
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| Quote: |
| we wouldn't dare eat such slop you laughingly refer to as food |
what about tiger penis, you don't think it's food? can boost your ego really nicely if you try that.
how about dog liver ? very tasty. I'm staring at my neighbor's golden retriever all the time. |
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there is NO god |
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MaomingMaster
Board Legend
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 11059
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Jan 05, 2006 - 02:52 AM |
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I have no interest in your sex life, sonny, I've got Fidel's event of 2006 predictions to organise.
Actually do you have a lighting board and rig we can borrow? We'll get someone to do a lapdance for you. |
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The_Meanderer
Fire-eater
Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 2734
Status: Offline
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Jan 05, 2006 - 10:51 AM |
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| chinamanshuffle wrote: |
| And for things like big screen, well, that's like english speakers using words like apertif, quiche (is that how you spell it, french boy?) etc.: With the imported product came the imported language. |
It goes even further than that in English - there are tons of words which we didn't have and had to purloin from French.
Here's a link for a load which we acknowledge are actually French
http://french.about.com/library/bl-frenchinenglish-list.htm
But there are many more (embarrass, mortgage, rectangle!) Here's a link for them!
http://www.krysstal.com/borrow_french.html
I find this stuff quite interesting, especially given the traditional bad-feeling from the British to the French - it makes me laugh to think how much we had to borrow, because we didn't have the words originally! We didn't have a word for embarrassed! |
_________________
I am not a hero. You know who's a hero?
Hiro. From Heroes. That's a real hero.
And Bono. |
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