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mk348
Newbie
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 2
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Aug 12, 2007 - 10:06 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Info Wanted: Investment Bank/Hedge Fund Sector In Shanghai |
Hi All - I'm a well seasoned (4 years - Senior Relationship Manager in the hedge fund community, 7 years - Institutional Equity Sales and Trading, 10 years - Interbank Currency Sales and Trading) Wall Street professional who is very interested in locating a suitable position in Shanghai. I'm starting my due diligence, and I thought this site would be a great resource to get information from 'those in the know'.
Can anyone give me a good overview of the investment banking concerns that cater to the hedge fund and asset management industry in Shanghai?
Secondly, I do not currently speak Mandarin. I will start intensive training once based in Shanghai. Is this an insurmountable issue?
Thanks in advance - Matt |
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Snippets
PopStar
Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 1100
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Aug 12, 2007 - 10:21 PM |
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| Quote: |
| Can anyone give me a good overview of the investment banking concerns that cater to the hedge fund and asset management industry in Shanghai? |
Free market research? |
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freeman2007
Reacher
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 342
Location: connecticut
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Aug 12, 2007 - 10:50 PM |
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learn mandarin is probably ok for you.
the thing is the position you are looking at is of a specialty so you will need to learn the banking and business side of the language too.
this means more learning since we foreigners if we learn chinese we are very limited on business chinese since we do not really need to use it to survive in china.
so special teaching will be requested i am sure.
then since in banks and business offices everything is in chinese you also will need to learn how to write it and how read it.
this will not be a piece of cake.
imagine how many years chinese boys and girls listen to chinese when they grow up i am not sure that by the time they anderstand and can speak the language they can also have a business conversation.
when you were young and learned english could you have a business conversation with your father and anderstand everything he would tell you?????
but anything is possible with time i know a few western people in shanghai that can write and read chinese took them a long time to do it.
anyway good luck on your search.
i have no qualification on banking business so i can not tell you anything about it. |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 303
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Aug 12, 2007 - 11:32 PM |
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By investment banking, I assume you mean corporate finance. You'll obviously need to be fluent in Mandarin to do any execution work in China. Listing rules and accounting standards are obviously different, but you can pick those up rather quickly. However, if you're talking about the equity/debt capital market groups, I suppose it would be ok if you cover the us/european desk. Language would be less of an issue if you relocate to HK.
Advisory and private equity here are quite different than in the US. More innovative deal structuring, and deals move at a much quicker pace.
Hours are long on the sell side - 80 to 100 hours a week (or more) depending on whether or not you're working on live deals. Pretty much the same as in the US. So, I'm not sure how you're going to manage your Chinese lessons. I have many friends who have such intentions when they come but have yet to see someone be able to pull it off.
Would obviously be easier to manage your time if you stay on the buy side. Issue with the buy side here is that there's too much liquidity and too few good investment opportunities. So, you really need to know the market and the locals very well to be able to find those deals. Can't emphasize how important guan xi (connections or relationships) is here - very different concept than in the US. |
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maximus1
Reacher
Joined: June 18, 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Jing'An
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 12:07 AM |
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mandarin is unnecessary if you have strong client relationships. hold onto them tightly, and find them something good to invest in (which will unfortunately be harder to do without mandarin) |
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LaVecchiaSignora
SuperStar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Posts: 1531
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 12:14 AM |
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There is still a big difference between corporate finance and hardcore IB, PE or Hedge funding.
For a relatively senior position, you need to bring in your own client base. You have to be of value to an investment bank in terms of your experience/knowledge and the amount of pure cash or potential for cash. If you can meet this requirement, you do not even have to speak Mandarin. |
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I like walking in the rain because no one knows im crying |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 303
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 12:27 AM |
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| LaVecchiaSignora wrote: |
There is still a big difference between corporate finance and hardcore IB, PE or Hedge funding.
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What do you mean by hardcore ib? In my view, investment banking = corporate finance (i.e. ipo, m&a, bond issuance, etc.). Don't really consider ECM/DCM investment banking. Certainly a huge difference between in-house corporate finance and advisory, but i don't think we're talking about in-house here.
PE is indeed different from corp fin, and many bankers don't really understand the PE industry, although that's slowly changing. Very different proposition when you have skin in the game. |
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mk348
Newbie
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 2
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 04:02 AM |
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I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm talking specifically of sell side relationship (investment banks) management with the hedge fund community, be it in the prime brokerage arena or equity/fixed income sales. From the well written replies I've received (thanks to all!) it seems that several of you are familiar with this industry. I know that there is a tremendous expat community in H.K. working in such a capacity. In an effort to carve out a niche for myself, I'm looking for such a position in Shanghai. My question is, does this exist in Shanghai? Would such opportunities present themselves, and if so, who would I contact? Again, will my inability to speak Mandarin act as an absolute deterent to my potential employer?
Thanks in advance! |
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LPPL2007
Barker
Joined: Mar 08, 2007
Posts: 170
Location: forsaken land of zhangjiang
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:02 AM |
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you need to read mandarin to a certain extent. most documents and courses here are in chinese and if you dont read chinese, how do you attend it? |
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freeman2007
Reacher
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 342
Location: connecticut
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:16 AM |
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this is what i was pointing
even some people mentionned that mandarin is not a necessity i strongly advise for the op to learn man darin fast and some reading and writing skills if he wants to be successfull in his task.
he will not be dealing exclusivelly with english speaking people.
even if he is lucky to do so he will have to read and write some chinese reports, since from what i have heard only the chinese version of a contract is legal here
anyway good luck to him. |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 303
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:55 AM |
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You are right in that there's already a huge community of bankers in HK. I also assume that you know that many of them (as well as those in singapore, etc.) cover China from there.
I agree with most of the posters here. Essentially, if you are able to bring existing client relationships that can translate into deals, then not being able to speak mandarin is less of an issue in the beginning. It would become an issue when you stop bringing in deals.
However, if you're looking to start new relationships here, then not being able to read/speak mandarin is going to be a handicap, especially on the sell side. Would be easier on the buy side, but still an impediment. |
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LPPL2007
Barker
Joined: Mar 08, 2007
Posts: 170
Location: forsaken land of zhangjiang
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 01:14 PM |
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almost every dealer has to be licensed by cfets or national interbank funding centre. if you cannot read chinese how do you sit for the course? |
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FTM
Reacher
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 273
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 01:23 PM |
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Start your intensive language training now. It takes a while learn the business lingo even with fluency. |
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mrpango
Low Seater
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 3274
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 02:03 PM |
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I also have to agree with the above - Get yourself clued up in written, spoken, everything Mandarin.
Although I'm at a much lower level - I also lost out for a chance in investment banking over here due to my lack of fluent Mandarin. |
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Well, may as well start a blog http://www.sinocracy.com/ - click at your leisure! |
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maximus1
Reacher
Joined: June 18, 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Jing'An
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 02:07 PM |
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unless the op is japanese, korean, or has chinese speaking parents, telling them to learn mandarin fast is pretty ridiculous advice.
I'd love to hear from any westerners about how long it took them to go from scratch to understanding chinese business television shows |
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Bamboo_Chewer
Seeker
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 50
Location: JingAn Zoo
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 02:48 PM |
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Certainly life in general would be more interesting if one knows Mandarin. But it takes a LOOONG time (years!) to build up to business fluency level! |
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Me_Again
Reacher
Joined: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Lost
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 03:27 PM |
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Mmm...the sh^t hits the fan at Wall Street, and the "professionals" start bailing out to greener pastures.
Maybe it's a good career move considering the US is headed straight for a recession/depression, which is bad for most Wall Street "professionals". Wall Street has done its part to f*ck up the US economy with derivatives, leveraged buyouts, CDO's and anything else related to debt, it's like one giant ponzi scheme, so why the need to come to China to show 'em how it's done?
Why not stay in the US? You can deal with the Chinese from there and the only Mandarin you'd need to know will be 我们没有钱。 |
_________________
We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill |
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LaVecchiaSignora
SuperStar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Posts: 1531
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 04:22 PM |
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foodcoma, you are right, thanks for pointing it out.
Execution is still being done in HK, while many banks have an IB desk right now at this moment. Several clients of have already set up their desks and actively recruiting local talent. For expats, and I will repeat myself, if you can bring in a good clientele, you are in. Skills to bring in more, even better. Many banks still focus on ibankers from HK/Singapore, but they are so expensive. A friend of mine gets 600KUSD basic and 2 years bonus and she is only VP2 (DB in HK). The Chinese market cannot pay for candidates like her. |
_________________
I like walking in the rain because no one knows im crying |
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Rais
Reacher
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 298
Status: Offline
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Aug 13, 2007 - 05:30 PM |
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| maximus1 wrote: |
unless the op is japanese, korean, or has chinese speaking parents, telling them to learn mandarin fast is pretty ridiculous advice.
I'd love to hear from any westerners about how long it took them to go from scratch to understanding chinese business television shows |
Right, for what he's aiming for he'd need 2 years of full time study with a daily private tutor IN CHINA, and even then... |
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