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DesertSpider
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4417
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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Aug 13, 2007 - 06:28 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Fake Buns - Jailed for ONE YEAR !!! |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2007 - 09:00 PM |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 13, 2007 - 09:14 PM |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 13, 2007 - 09:26 PM |
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DesertSpider
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4417
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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Aug 13, 2007 - 09:58 PM |
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haha |
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| I'm looking good, got a luscious v of hair going through my chest pubes down to my ball fro. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 13, 2007 - 10:04 PM |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6410
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Aug 13, 2007 - 10:20 PM |
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For every seller there is also a buyer. And at least the opium was not fake or substandard. |
_________________
If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 13, 2007 - 10:31 PM |
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| hc wrote: |
| ^ The good Brits, like the Queen, supplied it too |
That's news to me. was Queen victoria getting her hands dirty in the poppy fields of Burma?
| Quote: |
For every seller there is also a buyer. |
Good point especially as Europeans weren't even allowed to set foot on Chinese soil. |
_________________
Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:05 PM |
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"That's news to me. was Queen victoria getting her hands dirty in the poppy fields of Burma? "
Obviously not. She was supervising the racketeers in the parliament and financing the pirates to protect the trade that saved the "empire".
"Good point especially as Europeans weren't even allowed to set foot on Chinese soil."
Oh interesting. The british invented the teleport back then and never told the rest of the world eh?
All this opium from Burma teleported itself to China. Wow.
"For every seller there is also a buyer."
This is 100% true, and 0% to the point, since we are talking about an addiction.
However, if you read history you will see that the war only started after China rightfully burned the opium to eradicate the supply side of the equation (much easier to control).
A letter to the "queen" was also sent to ask her to stop something 1)within her control and 2)that she knew was absolutely wrong i.e. immoral, regardless of demand.
I cant even believe your are justifying drug trafficking JUST because it happens to be that China was the one on the receiving end of it.
I'm all against victimization too, but the usual excuses ("it was ok at the time", "where there is a demand there is a supply") are beyond lame. |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:09 PM |
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| hc wrote: |
"Good point especially as Europeans weren't even allowed to set foot on Chinese soil."
Oh interesting. The british invented the teleport back then and never told the rest of the world eh?
All this opium from Burma teleported itself to China. Wow.
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Can't you read? |
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Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:15 PM |
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I fail to understand what your point is.
Europeans weren't even allowed to set foot on Chinese soil
Please complete the sentence with a definitive, intelligent and obliterating argument as what the implications of "Europeans weren't even allowed to set foot on Chinese soild, hence..."
I'm sure a dope dealer in a country in shambles would have a code of honor to never touch chinese soil.  |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:24 PM |
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You know the answer already.
The Chinese had a weakness for opium. They had been smoking it for years but for some reason they preferred the Burma variety more than the Turkish crap they were used to.
You know it was the Chinese who did this to themselves. The British just wanted to trade but they weren't allowed to. The Chinese buyers rowed out in their Sampans and bought the stuff in bulk and then took it ashore and got their compatriots hooked - all for a profit I might add. |
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Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:34 PM |
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Man.
Ha.
I'm speechless by how far one will go to cover their butt in something serious and clear cut like this.
First let me say that this here is pretty much spot on: "The Chinese buyers rowed out in their Sampans and bought the stuff in bulk and then took it ashore and got their compatriots hooked - all for a profit I might add".
But, unfortunately the story doesnt end there.
You are saying that it was 100% Chinese fault, since they were addicted to opium anyway i.e. the brits, even if they knew it was wrong to trade opium and bring the Burmese opium to the Chinese, are exempt of any guilt since "The British just wanted to trade but they weren't allowed to".
Basically what you are saying is "it's ok to fk someone over for money". And we are sayuing fk someone over because the brits knew about the effects of opium (to the point that trading opium in britain was forbidden).
Basically you are saying it is ok to bomb Iraq to get their oil, exact same principle after all inst it? Saddam didnt want to play so and we, after all, "wanted to trade!"
Basically you are saying it is ok to exploit the weaker as much as you want if to make a buck.
Basically you are saying that all the morals that you are proud of are ok to be violated as long as you make a little money.
Fine with me.
But then dont pose as Mr. Righteous elsewhere, at least admit that fkng people over for money is ok in your book. |
_________________
Click here to read the latest retarded PM Natalie sent me. Let's make her lose face and FINALLY leave this site. |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:40 PM |
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| Quote: |
| You are saying that it was 100% Chinese fault |
Total BS. You do this every time which is why it's pointless having a reasonable debate about this with you. I have not once said that.
All I'm saying is that the Brits are not 100% to blame as you would like to have it. The Hong Merchants have to shoulder at least an equal part of the blame as does the Qing government, as do in small part the addicts themselves. It's the Great China Blame Game. |
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Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 13, 2007 - 11:56 PM |
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^ Look at how you wrote your sentence:
"You know it was the Chinese who did this to themselves. The British just wanted to trade but they weren't allowed to."
To my understanding of English it pretty much focus a lot on the Chinese and just a bit on the innocent brits.
"All I'm saying is that the Brits are not 100% to blame as you would like to have it."
Not true at all, just saying that the Brits controlled most of the supply chain and just sprinkled it to the dealers, which were obviously at fault too. If the Brits said "hey selling opium is a hideous thing, we dont allow it in our country and hence we wont sell it to you, regardless of how much you pay" we wouldnt have a problem at all. |
_________________
Click here to read the latest retarded PM Natalie sent me. Let's make her lose face and FINALLY leave this site. |
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jacobbarnes
Barker
Joined: Dec 14, 2006
Posts: 127
Status: Offline
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Aug 14, 2007 - 03:32 AM |
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It's not as if British and American merchants were just dropping some opium on the spot market. The sale to Chinese on sampans was made possible by a concerted effort to create a market for opium grown on large plantations in Birtish India. The opium was grown specifically for that market.
The merchants and the empire needed silver to pay for all of the chinese silk and more significantly tea. The Emperor would only sell those goods for silver. It corrected a trade deficit and gave the merchants a chance to get their hands on more silver.
Opium merchants like Mattheson and Jardine also drove down the price of opium in China at times by flooding the market, allowing for the creation of far more addicts.
It was not as if the mrechants were carrying around the opium by chance. This was not a response to a market, it was market manipulation to create a trad balance where there was no market for brithish manufactures and a strong British demand for Chinese goods.
Interestingly, at about the same point in history the British imperial presence in Africa was justified by the need to fight the west and east African slave trades. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 14, 2007 - 08:25 AM |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 14, 2007 - 09:12 AM |
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| jacobbarnes wrote: |
It's not as if British and American merchants were just dropping some opium on the spot market. The sale to Chinese on sampans was made possible by a concerted effort to create a market for opium grown on large plantations in Birtish India. The opium was grown specifically for that market.
The merchants and the empire needed silver to pay for all of the chinese silk and more significantly tea. The Emperor would only sell those goods for silver. It corrected a trade deficit and gave the merchants a chance to get their hands on more silver.
Opium merchants like Mattheson and Jardine also drove down the price of opium in China at times by flooding the market, allowing for the creation of far more addicts.
It was not as if the mrechants were carrying around the opium by chance. This was not a response to a market, it was market manipulation to create a trad balance where there was no market for brithish manufactures and a strong British demand for Chinese goods.
Interestingly, at about the same point in history the British imperial presence in Africa was justified by the need to fight the west and east African slave trades. |
What's your point? Have you just copied this from Wikipedia?
It was still a market Jacob, that is, there is still a demand side which you are conveniently ignoring. |
_________________
Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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DesertSpider
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4417
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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Aug 14, 2007 - 09:15 AM |
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Devils, devils.... they're all devils I tell you. |
_________________
| wrote: |
| I'm looking good, got a luscious v of hair going through my chest pubes down to my ball fro. |
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Missin
Reacher
Joined: June 22, 2007
Posts: 245
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Aug 14, 2007 - 10:17 AM |
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So....were they using fake opiums in these buns? |
_________________
I am back! (sounds of crickets cricketing...) |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 14, 2007 - 10:22 AM |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Aug 14, 2007 - 10:34 AM |
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| hc wrote: |
| the brits knew about the effects of opium (to the point that trading opium in britain was forbidden). |
Ha. Mr Bullsh*t. I've caught you out once again hc in your lack of knowledge of history.
Opium was freely available in Britain until 1863 (when it was restricted to pharmacists). The use of opium was a major social problem at the time. |
_________________
Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 14, 2007 - 11:00 AM |
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Source?
Caught me "again"?
Jacob, arent you British?
I dont understand why you wouldnt have a problem acknowledging past misdeeds while wolfy here refuses to tint the immaculate illusion of the butcher empire.
Destroying a child's dream is never easy.
I cried when I found out that Santa Claus didnt exist. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 14, 2007 - 11:08 AM |
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| wolfy wrote: |
Good point especially as Europeans weren't even allowed to set foot on Chinese soil. |
I think Portugal is in Europe last time I checked.
But maybe I am wrong.
Wolfy, is Portugal in Europe? |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 14, 2007 - 11:14 AM |
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An example of who ran the country of the time:
In 1840, armed with a petition signed by hundreds of British traders and businessmen both in Asia and in England, Jardine successfully persuaded Parliament to wage war on China, giving a full detailed plan for war, detailed strategic maps, battle strategies, the indemnifications and political demands from China and even the number of troops and warships needed. This plan was known as the Jardine Paper. In the 'Jardine Paper', Jardine emphasized several points to Palmerston in their meetings and they are as follows: There was to be complete compensation for the 20,000 chests opium that Lin had confiscated, the conclusion of a viable commercial treaty that would prevent any further hostilities, and the opening of further ports of trade such as Fuzhou, Ningbo, Shanghai, and Keeson-chow. It was also suggested by Jardine that should the need arise to occupy an island or harbor in the vicinity of Guangzhou, Hong Kong would be perfect because it provided an extensive and protected anchorage. Jardine clearly stated what he thought would be a sufficient naval and military force to complete the objectives he had outlined. He also provided maps and charts of the area. In a well calculated recommendation letter to Parliament, creating a precedent now infamously known as 'Gunboat Diplomacy', Jardine states:
"No formal Purchase, -- no tedious negotiations,...A firman insistently issued to Sir F. Maitland authorizing him to take & retain possession is all that is necessary, & the Squadron under his Command is quite competent to do both,...until an adequate naval and military force...could be sent out from the mother Country. When All this is accomplished, -- but not till then, a negotiation may be commenced in some such Terms as the following - You take my opium - I take your Islands in return - we are therefore Quits, --& thenceforth if you please let us live in friendly Communion and good fellowship. You cannot protect your Seaboard against Pirates & Buccaneers. I can - So let us understand Each other, & study to promote our mutual Interests."
This letter is in itself a reflection of the very nature of Jardine as a businessman and itself an explanation why the man was considered as the most powerful trader in the South China coast.
So, basically a dope dealer is calling the shots. Interesting eh?
Funny that the similar things go on to THIS DAY, but with different commodities.
Look at the scandal of bribes of BAE to Saudi Arabia and how quickly Tony Blair was to dismiss investigations and trying to bury the topic.
Wait: it's the fault of the Saudis that BAE is giving them 2 billion dollars in bribes right? Just like, obviously, it's the fault of the Chinese of buying all these cheap opium that Jardine and friends dumper in the market right?
I rest my case.
Yawnnnnn. |
_________________
Click here to read the latest retarded PM Natalie sent me. Let's make her lose face and FINALLY leave this site. |
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