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HK2ShviaUSA
Reacher
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 274
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Dec 13, 2007 - 09:07 PM |
 
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The Chinese curriculum is supposed to be the same in the international and in the Chinese section, but I don't know how they compare in practice.
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Pinghe uses the same books....it is not the same expectation. I'm guessing smaller classes. I think they told me something like that kids that were NOT doing well in the local stream (at 1,200rmb or less a month) were recommended to go to the international stream (6,000+ rmb per month)
Shanghai High School International Division teaches exclusively in English (with some local teachers that speak with a heavy accent and in one friend's instance, none of the teachers were native english speakers) with chinese as a subject.
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I don't think the Chinese track at SMIC would be as rigorous as the average public in Shanghai. I am sure that there is still a lot of homework but just less so than a local school.
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The kids at SMIC chinese section take the same standardized as the local kids in SH. In addition, the taiwanese parents are just as demanding as the local chinese parents about HW, if not more. They are concerned that when they go back to Taiwan, the kids will not be behind. When my daughter was being tutored to re-take the exam, she had to study from both the standard local text and a supplemental chinese textbook (like one was not enough!) - which I don't think they do in the local schools.
BTW, if you are gearing up your kids, I would HIGHLY recommend getting the standard chinese textbook to study up (available in any school supply book store - make sure you do get the right one as there are several series, but only 1 that is highly locally regarded). They are really CHEAP at 26rmb per semester, with workbooks and sometimes audio tapes (1st and 2nd grade). |
Last edited by HK2ShviaUSA on Dec 17, 2007 - 12:14 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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guest13
Newbie
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Posts: 9
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Dec 14, 2007 - 10:08 PM |
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I am living in pudong side,does anyone heard JIN CAI school? some of the kids in our compound goes there. its at Lian Yang area,its local school with international stream. i went there had a look at international class. most of them are asian,with a few westerner kids. any information? thanks. |
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HK2ShviaUSA
Reacher
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 274
Status: Offline
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Dec 15, 2007 - 01:15 AM |
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Has reputation....as least on the radar. Don't know anyone who sends there kids there. Read in a book that their english level was low. Your kids would be in the english stream.....with a whole bunch of chinese speaking kids (at lunch, outside schools). Since you are paying for the international section...how many of the teachers are teaching english (of of those, how many are native english speakers?). Anyway, isn;t this thread about getting a chinese education?
Typical school marketing ploy. Take your only blond blue eyed kid and stick them in most of the school web site photos. |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Dec 15, 2007 - 10:57 AM |
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Hmm...isn't Jin Cai a high school only? I've been there before, when attending an IB course (they do the IB, apparently). |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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RachaelLau
Barker
Joined: June 23, 2006
Posts: 144
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Dec 15, 2007 - 11:21 PM |
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It has been close to 3 months since I started teaching English in a local Chinese school. As I don't station there (I only go to the school twice a week when I have lessons) or kids studying in local school, I am not aware of their workload.
But besides academics and languag, I just want to comment on the emotional and cultural aspect.
Its a norm to see teachers pulling student's ear and putting them down. If your kids have never experience it back in their own country. Please tell them don't take it personlly. Its just the culture.
I believe many have heard that local students are very respectful and attentive in class (because they have to sit up straight with hands behind). But that is only half the story. This is only true when a teacher is around. But once behind the teacher's back, they don't talk, they generally "shout" to get their voice across. I guess they pick it up from their parents and teachers. And yes, teachers in my school shout alot.
I used to think like that when my daughter goes to primary school, I would send her to a local school. But after my experience, I think I will think twice.
But having said that, I still love my kids back in the local school. Its just that culturally, we are very different.
Then again, if you are staying around Gubei, you can perhaps visit Jian Qing Shi Yan School. It's a very good school. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 846
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Dec 17, 2007 - 12:15 PM |
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| RachaelLau wrote: |
But besides academics and languag, I just want to comment on the emotional and cultural aspect.
Its a norm to see teachers pulling student's ear and putting them down. If your kids have never experience it back in their own country. Please tell them don't take it personlly. Its just the culture.
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That is physical & verbal abuse no matter what culture it is. Just how the said culture tolerate the abuse is the question. |
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HK2ShviaUSA
Reacher
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 274
Status: Offline
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Dec 17, 2007 - 12:26 PM |
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My son's teacher has called my son a liar (he didn't) and told him his project was unacceptable and 'terrible' (actually, I thought is was perfectly acceptable for 3rd grade and certainly something he did by himself and was something that he was proud of).
I would not expect any teacher (esp in primary school) to say anyone's work was terrible...I expect constructive criticism (like add some photos, you need a title page, you need to expand your essay, I want a cover, etc.) esp when something was handed in a week early! Besides, I read her instructions and I couldn't figure out what she wanted . He got a chance to turn in the project again (minus 10 points for being late) but it looked nothing like her written expectation and probably everything that she wanted.
Oh, did I mention that she's north american? And yes, we are in the international division of a local school. Which then speaks of the uneven teachers that your kids might encounter. And then you might have no recourse, since there might be only one class per grade. |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2120
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Dec 17, 2007 - 02:45 PM |
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Anyone who can speak English can teach here. It's harder to find jobs at the international schools if you truly have no experience but, even there, when it gets down to the crunch and someone renegs on their contract at the last minute, people get hired who have questionable experience. As you move down the feeding chain of Shanghai schools, the problem gets worse. At one of the international kindergartens, my daughter's class cycled through three English teachers over the course of the year and I don't think any of them had ever had an Early Childhood Ed class. The only saving grace was that the Chinese teacher was trained and good.
My sense is that the American and European schools are more sensitive to criticism from parents and will correct a bad hiring as quickly as they can. I think Asian culture is such that it's harder to deal with bad hirings in the Asian and local schools |
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RachaelLau
Barker
Joined: June 23, 2006
Posts: 144
Status: Offline
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Dec 18, 2007 - 11:13 PM |
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Whatever it is, let's just say it takes time to change. Last summer, I was in Shenyang doing a summercamp. The ministry was there almost everyday to observe and video tape how we conduct our classes in a more positive and creative way. And there are still many exchange program going on. One of the major items of discussion is how to use more positive learning in classroom teaching.
But as a mother, I guess I am still selfish. If I can afford. I would still choose not to place my daughter in this environment. |
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HK2ShviaUSA
Reacher
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 274
Status: Offline
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Dec 19, 2007 - 11:53 AM |
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My son get enough of the toughness at home (from me. LOL. And I would never say his work is terrible, I would praise him for his effort and give ideas for improvement!). I paid tuition so that my kids will have a positive learning experience and love learning, not so they ask to stay home from school. |
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fuyu_jinjin
Newbie
Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Jan 13, 2008 - 11:48 PM |
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so if a high school student wants to take a Chinese Section in an Int'l school ( if have) but cannot speak Chinese, which school suits him?
Thanks for any input. |
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HK2ShviaUSA
Reacher
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 274
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2008 - 09:01 AM |
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All international schools (not the international section of a chinese school) should have CSL for beginners. You should find out if it is you or your child that wants to take chinese. Some programs concentrate heavily in reading/writing, which means if you child is not so much into it, your child might be turned off.
If the purpose is to understand/speak a few phrases, make sure that if you are looking at the international section of a chinese school, that they have beginner classes (CSL) or extra help. |
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fuyu_jinjin
Newbie
Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 8
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Jan 14, 2008 - 10:21 PM |
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Thanks HK2ShviaUSA,
I visited Jincai Int'l Division School (Pudong) once and I don't really like it (because of some silly reasons and also they gave a entrance test with a lots a wrong questions which impossible to have any answers). However, because I want to attend to CSL program or English Section with extra-help on Chinese(?). Anyway, the main point is I want to study in China and go to a Chinese university but my Chinese level is 0. My parents don't want me to miss any school year ( if I choose CSL, I might stay back 1 year or if I choose English Section, it's just like what I'm doing now just without chance to learn Chinese.) So, does anyone know anything about Jincai?And it just has IB for junior students. 2 schools I try to contact and apply are SMIC and Fudan. One thing makes me confused is both Fudan and SMIC I like and I think it they suit me in some ways have no IB programs.
Thanks! |
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Portsmouth
Seeker
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 70
Location: Shanghai
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Jan 16, 2008 - 09:10 AM |
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For parents tempting to send their children to local schools, below is a good article from Shanghai Daily.
I showed the article to my local co-worker who is a mother of a 6 year-old first grader and she could not agree more with the author that "he will be constantly ranked in accordance with his score, which then dictates the amount of respect and kindness he will get from his teachers and classmates."
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Pupils are wrecks but the system grinds on
Created: 2008-1-16
Author:Wan Lixin
ONE noted scholar once remarked that the youth today are no longer capable of experiencing intense feelings, whether the ecstasies of joy or the depths of sorrow.
But recently some students were moved to tears by a text depicting the vicissitudes experienced by Fan Jin.
Excerpted from the classic novel "The Scholars," the story relates how Fan, long held in contempt by his family and relatives, succeeds in the provincial examination at the age of 54. He goes mad upon hearing the news.
The examination success also results in a dramatic elevation in the estimation of Fan, particularly by his father-in-law Butcher Hu, who used to abuse him.
"There were faint sobs while the teacher was going through the text. Quite a few students were in tears, just like me ..." thus wrote Xiao Yu, a junior high school student in Shenyang, Liaoning Province, in his diary.
Xiao Yu explained that the readers were so sympathetic because they themselves are all too familiar with types like Butcher Hu in their own lives.
The "good" students, or those good at getting high scores, are pampered and fawned over by the teachers and the students alike, in spite of their defects in other respects.
The "bad" students are perennial victims of prejudice, disdain, and neglect.
But the similarities between Fan and today's young scholars are limited.
First, only a very small minority chose to distinguish themselves through studies in Fan's time, while today almost none can be spared the ordeal.
Second, Fan at 54 had sat for about 20 examinations, which was only a fraction of the number endured by a student today at age 10.
There is also one fundamental difference: Fan's studies were largely self-motivated and self-managed, because at his time there was no orthodox curriculum and national syllabus, or standardized tests.
Today school cramming is institutionalized, compulsory, and begins from pre-school years.
One of my nephews in north Jiangsu is cramming for this year's National College Entrance Examination; he leaves home at 5:30am and returns home at 10:30pm, almost every day for the past three years.
This is the test of tests and it reduces individuals infinitely diverse in their temperaments and aspirations to a fatal numerical score.
The message has been hammered home to students that any letting-up in their efforts will cost them the race.
As if they were professional sports people, who are constantly reminded that the medal has to be won, at whatever cost.
The health and psychological costs are considerable, when you know the number of students who end up traumatized.
I remember scholar Qian Mu once noted that intensifying competition determines that our society is churning out human wrecks.
Almost all are losers. Depending on the context, one winner will emerge in a class, a school, a field, a nation.
Individual resistance can be futile.
For instance, my five-year old son is attending a kindergarten known for its English teaching, but so far we have managed to show little concern over his ignorance compared with his classmates. We have successfully deflected the attentions of salespersons who intend to prey on his weekends and vacations.
But our protection can go only as far as elementary school, where he will be constantly ranked in accordance with his score, which then dictates the amount of respect and kindness he will get from his teachers and classmates.
When everyone else is hell-bent on revving up their scores, those who dare to take a laissez-faire attitude are, as one parent said, "subjecting their kid to a pack of wolves."
The really sensible parents, rather than shield them, should teach them how to live with wolves.
I heard from one of my colleagues that one couple, obviously taking a liberal view of education, would not hear of any private schooling for their kid. To their great dismay, their child failed to enter a key school.
Thus, unless the so-called jianfu (unloading) is a nationally-coordinated move, those who dare to take the initiative are veritable dummies.
This explains why repeated efforts at unloading all end up as short-lived farces.
Remedy elusive
Late last November the education department in Wuhan, Hubei Province, promulgated a total of 17 decrees aimed at relieving students' burden.
The decrees, acclaimed as highly doable, aimed to reduce the burden by regulating study hours, home assignments, the times of examinations, the number of competitive events, and the practice of private tutoring.
Just one month after they went into effect, the decrees had failed. This outcome did not surprise the education experts, teachers and parents.
From elementary school on, nearly all teachers are subjected to quantitative assessment, which essentially means linking the average class test results with the teachers' earnings.
The only way to achieve quick results in this race for high scores, thus good earnings, is to involve students in incessant problem-solving.
Many teachers and parents are keenly aware that this pedagogy is destroying their students and children, both mentally and physically.
But even the most liberal-minded teachers dare not do what's right for the kids, encumbered as they are by their own big family to support.
Who dares to challenge the establishment by sacrificing the welfare of their family? |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2120
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2008 - 10:37 AM |
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Interesting post. When I taught at Fudan, the system also encouraged rampant cheating. After all, if the school and the teachers are being judged by the scores - don't you want the students to do everything possible to score high? Even if it includes turning a blind eye to answers being written on desks or people bringing in notes they shouldn't have. My students would tell me that you have to use all the tools available to you to succeed an that being good at cheating was also a skill.
I have grown to be much more appreciative of the role of the arts and sports in education since I have been here. Not only are they important in teaching children that no one can succeed alone (even the Bill Gateses of the world need companies of people to back them up) but they also help students to see and appreciate the variety of talents that people may bring to the table. I don't think it's coincidence that the Chinese are best at individual sports and not team sports. |
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fuyu_jinjin
Newbie
Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2008 - 10:08 PM |
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| sbergman wrote: |
Interesting post. When I taught at Fudan, the system also encouraged rampant cheating. After all, if the school and the teachers are being judged by the scores - don't you want the students to do everything possible to score high? Even if it includes turning a blind eye to answers being written on desks or people bringing in notes they shouldn't have. My students would tell me that you have to use all the tools available to you to succeed an that being good at cheating was also a skill.
I have grown to be much more appreciative of the role of the arts and sports in education since I have been here. Not only are they important in teaching children that no one can succeed alone (even the Bill Gateses of the world need companies of people to back them up) but they also help students to see and appreciate the variety of talents that people may bring to the table. I don't think it's coincidence that the Chinese are best at individual sports and not team sports. |
excuse me, Mr Sbergman, when you said Fudan, did you mean university or high/international school. I want to study in Shanghai for high school but have difficulties choosing schools. When I took a look at Fudan international school, I thought it is a good school. Since you said that, can you please tell me elaborately and may you give me some advices about schools in Shanghai. Please also notes that my Chinese is not good, actually just beginner. Thank you a lot.
Best regards. |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2120
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2008 - 10:28 PM |
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I meant University and it was awhile ago. I've heard only good things about their high school. If your Chinese isn't very good, you might consider an international school that offers Chinese language or a Chinese immersion program during the summer. |
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guest13
Newbie
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
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Jan 19, 2008 - 09:54 PM |
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Do you mind I ask which school your kid goes? since my daughter is over 5,i am checking around all the schools in pudong.. prefer local private school with international division. thanks.
| HK2ShviaUSA wrote: |
My son's teacher has called my son a liar (he didn't) and told him his project was unacceptable and 'terrible' (actually, I thought is was perfectly acceptable for 3rd grade and certainly something he did by himself and was something that he was proud of).
I would not expect any teacher (esp in primary school) to say anyone's work was terrible...I expect constructive criticism (like add some photos, you need a title page, you need to expand your essay, I want a cover, etc.) esp when something was handed in a week early! Besides, I read her instructions and I couldn't figure out what she wanted . He got a chance to turn in the project again (minus 10 points for being late) but it looked nothing like her written expectation and probably everything that she wanted.
Oh, did I mention that she's north american? And yes, we are in the international division of a local school. Which then speaks of the uneven teachers that your kids might encounter. And then you might have no recourse, since there might be only one class per grade. |
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guest13
Newbie
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
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Jan 19, 2008 - 09:58 PM |
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do you mind i ask how old are you? since i am actually thinking about send my daughter to JIN CAI int'l Division. thanks.
| fuyu_jinjin wrote: |
Thanks HK2ShviaUSA,
I visited Jincai Int'l Division School (Pudong) once and I don't really like it (because of some silly reasons and also they gave a entrance test with a lots a wrong questions which impossible to have any answers). However, because I want to attend to CSL program or English Section with extra-help on Chinese(?). Anyway, the main point is I want to study in China and go to a Chinese university but my Chinese level is 0. My parents don't want me to miss any school year ( if I choose CSL, I might stay back 1 year or if I choose English Section, it's just like what I'm doing now just without chance to learn Chinese.) So, does anyone know anything about Jincai?And it just has IB for junior students. 2 schools I try to contact and apply are SMIC and Fudan. One thing makes me confused is both Fudan and SMIC I like and I think it they suit me in some ways have no IB programs.
Thanks! |
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RachaelLau
Barker
Joined: June 23, 2006
Posts: 144
Status: Offline
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Jan 21, 2008 - 06:41 PM |
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fuyu_jinjin,
Too bad I too ignorant to give you any suggestion on choosing your ideal high school, but I just want to say I am impressed by your interest in looking out for a good school yourself. We hardly had any "kids" who is interested in "school" topic. Its always the parents who are so excited about school:> Good luck to you. I think you will learn fast because of your good attitude.
Portsmouth, I read with interest on the article. There is actually another way to go to a good school without putting so much effort. Its open secret that people goes through back door. Everyone speak so publicly without any shame. Maybe, it further reduce the chance for students who work hard. Beside fighting for grades, they are also fighting or students with money to pay throug the back door! How unfair!! |
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fuyu_jinjin
Newbie
Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Jan 27, 2008 - 09:53 PM |
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@RachaelLau: Thanks^^
I just dont know if I should go to CHina at this time, in the middle of the schoolyear. Also, which is better, Fudan or SMIC? |
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rucksack
Talker
Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Posts: 120
Location: the wrong side of the tracks
Status: Offline
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Feb 13, 2008 - 01:04 PM |
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I am interested in anyone who knows the difference between experimental local schools and regular local schools. My son has been in local kindergarten for 3-1/2 years and loves it. It's an experimental school, whatever that means, he is one of 2 foreigners in his grade but there are also a couple in tuo-ban and in da-ban. Anyhow, his teachers are very kind and gentle in their discipline, more patient than I am. After reading some of the above about the treatment of the students in primary school, I am feeling a bit freaked. I have a friend who has her child in first grade in local school and the child loves school. How much depends on the school? On the teacher? I'm really worried about physical and mental abuse. |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 556
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Feb 13, 2008 - 01:49 PM |
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It's the same everywhere - it depends on the school administration (leadership) and the actual teacher you get. There are gems and rocks everywhere.
From what I know, experimental schools are given more leeway with their curriculum and syllabus, compared to the standard local schools. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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sww
Squeeker
Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 13
Status: Offline
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May 11, 2008 - 08:39 AM |
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Hi, am interested in hearing more about the Fudan Experimental School. I hear it has a very strong curriculum in both English and Chinese and touts itself as being a better than your average "bilingual" school (spoken, not written). |
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likewater
Newbie
Joined: June 09, 2008
Posts: 7
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
June 09, 2008 - 07:39 PM |
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| Post subject: Here's my suggestion |
I'm an English teacher in Pin He bilingual school which is located in Jin Qiao district in Shanghai. I think it will be your good choice if you send your kids to our school:) We have kids coming from the different contries, some of them are studying in the local department with the Chinese kids, some of them are studying in the international department. But no matter which department you'll choose, we have experienced Chinese teachers and we speak mandarin to each other in our school:) Best wishes to you and your kids! |
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