Questions for Chinese
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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 Posted:
Apr 07, 2008 - 08:47 PM |
 
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Another weekend, a couple more questions:
What's the local take on littering? Is it bad form or is it no big deal since it provides employment to the street sweepers and such?
Why do people need to spit so much? (This isn't a complaint. I'm just curious as to why there's so much need to spit.) |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
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Apr 07, 2008 - 08:57 PM |
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why are their so many of them? |
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beautiful_mind0905
Board Lord
Joined: June 18, 2006
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Apr 07, 2008 - 09:06 PM |
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Littering -- Bad form as it doesn't take much to walk up to a bin or hold the rubbish until you find a bin.
Spitting -- Guess old habits are hard to break. |
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PG-30
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 345
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Apr 07, 2008 - 09:54 PM |
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| sbergman wrote: |
Another weekend, a couple more questions:
What's the local take on littering? Is it bad form or is it no big deal since it provides employment to the street sweepers and such?
Why do people need to spit so much? (This isn't a complaint. I'm just curious as to why there's so much need to spit.) |
littering is bad form, maybe because there were almost no garbage cans on the street decades ago...garbage cans are still scarce on small streets...
speaking of spit, I do feel I have much mucus than my foreign friends do, even we are in the same environment...maybe my body evolved to protect my throat from the polluted air?
anyways, for both of them , the fine is not big enough. |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2165
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Apr 07, 2008 - 10:22 PM |
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Thanks, PG. You know it never occurred to me that the spit thing could be an honest to goodness biological difference. I wonder if there's a way to test that theory. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Apr 07, 2008 - 11:02 PM |
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They litter because basically they do not give a crap to anybody outside their families and friends circle.
Like Lin YuTang put brilliantly in My Country My People: "the family is the walled castle and everything outside it is up for loot" or "the Chinese look at their countrymen the same way a British see somebody not from his race in a colony", this written in the early 30s.
Again: this was written by a Chinese author about the Chinese people, I'm just the messenger. |
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PG-30
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 345
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Apr 08, 2008 - 01:44 AM |
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| hc wrote: |
They litter because basically they do not give a crap to anybody outside their families and friends circle.
Like Lin YuTang put brilliantly in My Country My People: "the family is the walled castle and everything outside it is up for loot" or "the Chinese look at their countrymen the same way a British see somebody not from his race in a colony", this written in the early 30s.
Again: this was written by a Chinese author about the Chinese people, I'm just the messenger. |
ummm.....but it was even before WWII...... |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2165
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Apr 27, 2008 - 07:47 PM |
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New question:
What's with the special lilt with which strangers say hello to the naguoni? Halllloooooo! Is that something that's taught in school or something that was popularized on TV? It's so uniform that it must come from somewhere. |
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PG-30
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 345
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:24 PM |
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i think it is because the short vowel [e] doesnt exist in chinese pinyin, therefore people would pronounce the similar sound 'ha', which is more familiar and easier for people to pronounce(accents are usually caused in this way). also in chinese hello is written as 哈啰(ha1 luo2). |
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TheDudeAbides
Rocker
Joined: June 21, 2006
Posts: 720
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Apr 28, 2008 - 05:43 PM |
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I've never really liked that "hallloooo" thing as I've always interpreted it as a sarcastic thing, same if you put on your best stereotypical Chinese accent and said in over-enunciated tones "NiiiIIII HAaaAAOO" to evoke a reaction - they would think you're taking the piss too, or at the very least that something's wrong with you. Partly because it usually seems to be from someone riding past on a bike, or you hear it in the background, not so much to your face, at least not with me. The "friendly" hellos seem a bit different, imo. |
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genghis
Raver
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: 455
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Apr 28, 2008 - 06:53 PM |
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It's because of the funniest joke in China!
If a Chinese person sees a foreigner, says "hello", and the foreigner says "hello" back, OMG! COMEDY GOLD!!! |
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genghis
Raver
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: 455
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Apr 28, 2008 - 11:27 PM |
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Hey, actually I do have a serious question.
Does anyone know a good website about the origins of Chinese characters?
For example, why does the character for "female" combined with "horse" mean "mother"?
I've asked every Chinese person I know why this is so, and I usually get a response basically like "Well, we're taught that so we just accept it."
I want to know WHY. Why does "female" + "horse" - 妈 - mean "mother"?
For a country that claims 5000 years of culture, no one I have ever talked to in the past 2 years has any idea about character origins. Seeing as how Chinese characters are supposed to be a big part of the culture, how come no one seems to know anything about them? And I've asked EVERYBODY I KNOW and have known here. No one seems to know.
I'm a westerner and I use western logic to try and make sense of things. I've been looking for a simple way, or even a slightly complicated way, to understand Chinese characters, but I can't find any.
Some things kind of make sense. I mean, I can kind of understand that "train" is "fire cart" or "fire vehicle", since the first trains were kind of that. I can kind of understand "bread" being "flour package", since the first types of bread in China were flat bread used to wrap around other foods. Airplane is also easy... "Flying machine". No problem there.
But, it confuses me. A helicopter, also a "flying machine", is an "upright lift machine".
Well, an elevator is also an "upright lift machine", but it's translated as "electric ladder".
How are these distinctions made?
A rocket is a "fire arrow". While I can see the conceptual association, to a point, it doesn't sit well with me. A fire arrow is an arrow that is on fire, not a rocket.
I am having severe trouble with this when I dive into deeper conceptual topics.
Concept and point: 量子力学
Measure Something Strength Science?
How the hell does this mean "Quantum Mechanics"?!?!?!?!?!?!
Ok, so it boils down to this. Either there are much more complex associations between characters that foreigners must take a lifetime to learn and understand, or you guys are making this stuff up and being taught outright that "these four characters, regardless of what you think they mean, when combined, mean something completely different".
From what I've seen and experienced, I believe the latter. I'm pretty sure that if schools taught that "tiger, peacock, cheese, toenail, fungus" combined together means "Darwin's Theory of Evolution", everyone would just say "Uh, yeah, ok."
Seriously, there is a reason why other cultures abandoned pictograms for writing and used a phonetic form. IT WORKS. Why does China feel the need to hold on to this archaic form of writing? It's not cultural... I know many Chinese people that can look at old writing and they have no idea what it says. Maybe the Taiwanese are more "culturally Chinese" because they still use the "traditional" writing. Even that deviates from the old pictograms they used thousands of years ago.
so really, what's the point of learning any Chinese? "Chinese" differs in each CITY in this country. You travel 80km in any direction and guess what? You can't understand anyone, even though they "speak" "Mandarin" or "Chinese".
There is no national language here. At least with English, anyone that knows it can travel anywhere in the world, and no matter what accent or dialect.... English speakers can understand each other. I can travel half way around the world and understand the English being spoken to me. I can't travel 30km in China before people are speaking a different language.
My girlfriend is very proficient in "Mandarin Chinese", she's Chinese. In Beijing, no issues. In Shanghai, well, about 50% of the people she talks to, she has no idea what they're saying. In fact, she communicates with most of those people in English. Pretty funny that 2 people from the same country who speak the "same language" need to speak another language to understand each other.
So taking this all in to account, what is the actual benefit of learning to speak "Chinese"? Apparently, learning to READ Chinese will be of much more benefit, but it doesn't seem to make any logical sense.
I mean a "to guard/to protect/heath" + "star".... how is that "satellite"?
None of my Chinese teachers can answer these questions except for "uhhh, that's the way it is". Sorry, not an acceptable answer.
(moon + work) + gate = ass hole, sorry, "anus". 肛门
Seriously, this does not make sense to foreigners. |
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PG-30
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 345
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Apr 29, 2008 - 12:52 AM |
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http://en.wi ki pe dia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification
妈and肛 are all 形声字Phono-semantic compound characters. the right halves in these two characters are only to indicate the pronounciation.
satellite is actually 人造卫星(artificial guarding star) in chinese(卫星 is short for 人造卫星, depending on the context), while a secondary planet is called 卫星(guarding star), makes any sense now?
chinese dialects are very different, they could have become different languages if those ancient countries in china kept their own characters(there were more than 100 countries in china 3000 years ago). it is like that english, spanish, russian, german etc belong to Indo-European languages family, which means they derived from the same parent language. if those countries belong to one country now and have lost their writing systems , they would be regarded as different 'dialects' too.
btw i have been to many cities in china(even t¡bet), and have not faced any communication difficulties with my mandarin. and i wonder if every non shanghainese here can speak fluent english.... |
Last edited by PG-30 on Apr 29, 2008 - 01:32 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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PG-30
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 345
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Apr 29, 2008 - 01:27 AM |
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and this is the ancient chinese 火箭
see the similiarities now?
dont get me wrong, i m not saying chinese is superior to any languages, i just want to make it clear that those chinese words are not from no where, they have their derivation and history backgrounds as all other languages do. |
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lemongrass
StreetBeater
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2324
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Apr 29, 2008 - 02:41 AM |
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| sbergman wrote: |
New question:
What's with the special lilt with which strangers say hello to the naguoni? Halllloooooo! Is that something that's taught in school or something that was popularized on TV? It's so uniform that it must come from somewhere. |
My understanding is that Shanghai people who say hallo to foreigners just want to attract some attention from them, which somehow makes them feel great about themselves. They don't really intend to make fun of the foreigners or try to start a conversation. Its all because some of the Chinese people don't know much about foreigners and they are curious. Epecically when a foreigner is seen at some place with no foreigner residents at all. The poor foreigners are very likely to be asked to take a pic with them, after that those people can go back to the little village and brag about this 'friends' of their own.
Shanghai, sadly, is just not sophisticated enough. |
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lemongrass
StreetBeater
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2324
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Apr 29, 2008 - 03:01 AM |
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| sbergman wrote: |
Another weekend, a couple more questions:
What's the local take on littering? Is it bad form or is it no big deal since it provides employment to the street sweepers and such?
Why do people need to spit so much? (This isn't a complaint. I'm just curious as to why there's so much need to spit.) |
First, I believe that it's a sign of lack of law enforcement. Let's say how many people actually spit in Hong Kong at the risk of paying up to 5,000 hk dollars for doing that.
Secondly, it's all about a person's civilization level which has a lot to do with the education (from family,school and society). You can call it a habit if you like. The habit that allows people not to give a damn about anybody else but themselves. Its also a sign of weakness, laziness and self-concern. Agreed with hc on the theory from Lin Yu Tang. Not sure about the British part tho. |
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ymm
Seeker
Joined: Apr 28, 2008
Posts: 45
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Apr 29, 2008 - 10:35 AM |
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"New question:
What's with the special lilt with which strangers say hello to the naguoni? Halllloooooo! Is that something that's taught in school or something that was popularized on TV? It's so uniform that it must come from somewhere."
Once a man talked in TV "people greet each other on the street including strangers in Western world". Many street peddlers and labours from countryside positively follow that man's speech with hello to show friendliness.And those hello was actrually Mandrine pronunciation of Haluo哈罗. |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2165
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Apr 29, 2008 - 11:17 AM |
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Does anyone know a good website about the origins of Chinese characters?
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It's not a website but there are a set of books, Fun With Chinese Characters, by Tan Huay Ping. I've seen the books around town - most recently at the gift shop in the Shanghai Museum. I don't know how accurate the etymologies are but they are entertaining. |
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genghis
Raver
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: 455
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Apr 29, 2008 - 12:34 PM |
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Thanks PG-30! Yeah, it makes a little more sense now. |
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ymm
Seeker
Joined: Apr 28, 2008
Posts: 45
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Apr 29, 2008 - 12:58 PM |
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"sbergman - new question:
Is there a traditional Chinese retirement or housewarming present?"
Housewarming present: Chinese dimsum.Usually one Chinese red Rice cake with a steamed bun stuffed with mashed red bean. Local restraurants as Wangjiasha王家沙 in Nanjing Rd west and Wujiang Rd，Shen3Da4Chen2沈大成 in Nanjing Rd East supplies. |
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BONNIE
Veejay
Joined: June 17, 2005
Posts: 1909
Location: Amsterdam/Shanghai
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Apr 30, 2008 - 03:24 PM |
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I have a question too about family.
I have a very very close friend who tells my I am his sister, I am his family.
He tells me this means he is responsible for me for the rest of my life. His wife also follows this decision and since I am much older than her she treats me with immense respect. If a Chinese person adopts you into his family does this really have some significance ? |
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BONNIE
Veejay
Joined: June 17, 2005
Posts: 1909
Location: Amsterdam/Shanghai
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Apr 30, 2008 - 03:27 PM |
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By the way, he is the oldest member of his family - no older living relatives. He is also fairly wealthy so he does not need my money  |
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Siberia.......Here I come ! |
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PG-30
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 345
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Apr 30, 2008 - 03:51 PM |
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its just a kinda gesture that means you would be treated as his close friend, and he would always be there when you need him,as a friend. in chinese culture, we like to call close friends as family members to ensure the friendship.(wait a min, people say bro and sis too in the states,right?)
its not really adoption and i m afraid he might not put your name on his will. 
cheers for the friendship. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
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May 01, 2008 - 03:49 AM |
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It means you get all his money when he dies, and his brother gets to sleep with you. Usually you have your younger brother taste your food before you eat it. Just in case. |
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Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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BONNIE
Veejay
Joined: June 17, 2005
Posts: 1909
Location: Amsterdam/Shanghai
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May 01, 2008 - 05:33 AM |
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Snappy that really got me smiling at 5.30 in the morning.
Why am I awake at this time ? Couple of bruised/broken ribs are keeping me awake at night..............what's your excuse? |
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Siberia.......Here I come ! |
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