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onetime
Newbie
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 01:15 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Somebody tell me what's going on with ridiculous apt prices |
I have started looking for an apartment in Shanghai and am amazed by how much apartments are. I must have seen hundreds of buildings or villas where the rent STARTS at RMB 25,000 per month and go up much higher than that. A LOT OF THEM. What are these people doing in Shanghai to be able to afford them?! Are they just making insane amounts of money? If so, what profession? You have to make hundreds of thousands of RMB per month to be able to afford. Are they cramming 5 people to a room? Are they selling drugs on the side?! What is going on here? Can anyone answer? |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 910
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May 08, 2008 - 01:37 PM |
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The companies that sent the expats pay the rents. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 01:49 PM |
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Either you are looking at the extreme high end, or someone is trying to rip you off. Go look elsewhere. There are affordable apartments; ours is 4500 and we live 10 minutes walk from jing an temple. |
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karinalee
Seeker
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 46
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 01:57 PM |
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Keep looking !
visit the chinese yahoo/google search engines. alot of local agents who predominantly speak / write chinese have cheaper rates than those catered to foreigners.
also - you can bargain. |
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CIA
LoopKicker
Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Posts: 888
Location: Least Expect
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May 08, 2008 - 02:24 PM |
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It's called extortion in most societies and due to the lack of real supply and demand dictating more realistic pricing - what happens is that expats are lazy or don't care and the companies floating the bill are none the wiser. Hence a market where a pile of concrete blocks with no insulation, shite service and a laundry list of other crap can go for the same price as nice flats in Manhattan (NY).
Absolutely ridiculous. The housing "market" here needs to get drop kicked in the nutz if you ask me. |
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Last edited by CIA on May 08, 2008 - 04:49 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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Beartrap
Barker
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 152
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 02:30 PM |
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You can really find great places but you got to get your hands dirty and sort through all the mess. I personally think its better to go with an expat agent and tell them exactly what you want at what price. |
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rxg
Raver
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 446
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 02:36 PM |
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CIA - I have always agreed with your comments on many subjects.
Also agreed with your comments on this one.
The Chinese rather not rent their apartments at a reasonable price, than loosing face.
Also companies are paying for these apartments at a rediculous price - take SH Center for example!!! |
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Oilman
Reacher
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 02:41 PM |
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Looked at an Apartment yesterday, absolutely terrific view. The landlord quoted us one price over the phone and then when we got there and looked around she raised it by 4000! She started rattling off figures of what the allowance values were for each company, Like Siemen's XXXXX and GE XXXXX. Complete BS if you ask me, what a bitch to lie to get me there and then raise it later, she won't budge from her number. Oh well, off to look at more shite. One big problem is a lot of owners are second hand owners, so their mortages are much higher than the original owners were potentially, crazy standards if you ask me. |
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zhongyi
Newbie
Joined: May 06, 2008
Posts: 7
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 02:41 PM |
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The price is depend on what kind of apartment you want to rent! According to my information, there are a lot of good apartments around 100sqm only starting at 10,000RMB per month.For details, you can visit www.shaces.com |
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rxg
Raver
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 446
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 02:46 PM |
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If all expats leave SH, do you think the SH housing market will crumble?
The average salary in SH (4000 RMB), how many local could afforf to rent in SH at such rediculous prices?
I am really curios about this... |
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amig
Barker
Joined: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 125
Location: suburbia
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 02:52 PM |
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You need to do alot of DIY research and footwork to get better deals for rental. Rental market is quite competitive here. Sometimes it is the agent that is bringing you around to view the houses/apts. So if he is not helping you, dump him.
But really, what is Your Expectations? |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5276
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 02:53 PM |
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There are some good apartments 130+ sqm for less than 5000 for that matter. You just have to be in the right place at the right time. |
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Chinesegirl_Wang
Squeeker
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 03:18 PM |
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I think I can explain sth here.
The local professionals like myself, we used to stay in a shared old apartment in town or a relatively new apartment in a place a long way from city centre,that costs around 1700 RMB averagely.
The new aparment like 8 Avenue in Jing An, the rent there is from 12,000 RMB.But it is worth it,coz the condition of the flats is good.The house price in Jing An or Lu Wan are very high.
If you want to have better deal, i'd suggest you go for some old one( not too old).
Sometime, they will rip off foreigners,as they think you get paid by dollars,which is funny. If you have some local collegues,get some help from them.
Personally, I do not like using agents, I think the charge rate is high.
Buying flats here in SH is really difficult to the young ppl,but we have to.Most of the time,we choose to buy a smaller flat with a not-so-good location. The parents can help them with the first payment,and the mortgage will be paid by themselves.
The rich people sometimes buy the apartments in the city center, and let them to a expat, who can get the rent paid by his company.
Like in my company, we pay abt 30,000RMB/Month for a two bedroom apartment for one of the directors. The flat itself now is worth about 4million RMB. It is ten mins walking distance to Xin Tian Di.
Shanghai will not be any cheaper if Expat goes away, ppl in the other cities in China will still come to SH to bring all the price up......
Life is like this everywhere in a big city, I guess...
But, I still enjoy staying here...
Good luck on your flat hunting. |
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Chinesegirl_Wang
Squeeker
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 03:22 PM |
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i did not realise i wrote a long msg
woops |
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andyfff
Rocker
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 680
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 03:28 PM |
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I have said this before, but it is worth repeating: If you are going to look at an apartment, bring a Chinese person with you, preferably an older woman. She will look the landlord in the eye and say (in Chinese) "Cut the crap." I have had two apartments here, both times I brought a negotiator with me, and both times she got the rent reduced significantly, like more than 25%. |
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tigerduck
Reacher
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 265
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 03:52 PM |
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[quote"Michael"]There are some good apartments 130+ sqm for less than 5000 for that matter. You just have to be in the right place at the right time.[/quote]
Good to know!
Company of my husband is going to spend not more than 7500-8000 RMB for our flat.
When we talked to people who are working in Shanghai for large joint-stock companies we were laughed at: "you will never ever be able to find something decent with such a low budget." (Well, we don't expect to have a villa with swimming pool, do we ....  |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5276
Status: Offline
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May 08, 2008 - 04:06 PM |
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First of all just be clear what your budget is and demand that agent show places in their budget. Some agents might not want to show you less expensive places.. get a new agent if this happens.
The other thing you might do is go to the neighborhood you might want to live with a person who speaks and reads chinese. Check the small agent shops in those neighborhoods ... they primarily service the local market and they might be able to show you something good at a high end local price.
Previous posters correct - mnc will pay whatever the rate if their senior employee is happy. I even know one guy that had old studio in an old building (not even a built in kitchen ). He paid 2500. He found a company who would rent it from him for 8000 for the short term contract employees when they come to town. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17976
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 08, 2008 - 04:10 PM |
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| rxg wrote: |
The Chinese rather not rent their apartments at a reasonable price, than loosing face.
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yes all of them.. that is why we only hear everyone complaining and never any who actually get good deals. Kinda like "the expats will pay ridiculous amounts of rent"...over generalization you think?
Geez. While some will rather keep it empty and maybe some b/c of face, some others actually cannot afford to build the damned places out so they end up sitting empty. And still others can afford to sit on them so...
| Quote: |
| Also companies are paying for these apartments at a rediculous price - take SH Center for example!!! |
This is definitely more true as companies would rather throw money at the issue than actually do some research to figure out how much they are getting screwed each year. You should see what rip off agencies like Full home get from stupid unsuspecting fortune 500 companies.... hmmm, maybe someone should tell the relo folks at GE and Siemens and such. And oh, dont count on most relo companies to help as they need their cut so ...
To the OP, you are looking at the wrong place or looking for the wrong kind of housing. yes many are over priced, but there are decently priced places out there, even in this market. |
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Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17976
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 08, 2008 - 04:24 PM |
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| Oilman wrote: |
| Looked at an Apartment yesterday, absolutely terrific view. The landlord quoted us one price over the phone and then when we got there and looked around she raised it by 4000! She started rattling off figures of what the allowance values were for each company, Like Siemen's XXXXX and GE XXXXX. Complete BS if you ask me, what a bitch to lie to get me there and then raise it later, she won't budge from her number. Oh well, off to look at more shite. One big problem is a lot of owners are second hand owners, so their mortages are much higher than the original owners were potentially, crazy standards if you ask me. |
Let me guess, Santa Fe Relocation with Full Home Realty? You should see the article in City Weekend a few weeks back...especially the dragonlady pic, introducing Diana, the owner of that agency, who as a landlord, recently ripped off some fellow expats as they were exiting and had no recourse. Santa Fe, who probably needs to stay on the good side of such real estate agencies to keep supplying overpriced housing quickly, did not help any either. Can you imaging a landlady kicking out a family with small kids one day before they were to leave because she "wanted to show the place to a potential new renter that represented money to her"?
Of course some would say this is just hearsay, but I give it as an example because this is an exception rather than teh rule BUT expats need to be aware that thins like this can happen. |
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Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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Oilman
Reacher
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 04:48 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| Oilman wrote: |
| Looked at an Apartment yesterday, absolutely terrific view. The landlord quoted us one price over the phone and then when we got there and looked around she raised it by 4000! She started rattling off figures of what the allowance values were for each company, Like Siemen's XXXXX and GE XXXXX. Complete BS if you ask me, what a bitch to lie to get me there and then raise it later, she won't budge from her number. Oh well, off to look at more shite. One big problem is a lot of owners are second hand owners, so their mortages are much higher than the original owners were potentially, crazy standards if you ask me. |
Let me guess, Santa Fe Relocation with Full Home Realty? You should see the article in City Weekend a few weeks back...especially the dragonlady pic, introducing Diana, the owner of that agency, who as a landlord, recently ripped off some fellow expats as they were exiting and had no recourse. Santa Fe, who probably needs to stay on the good side of such real estate agencies to keep supplying overpriced housing quickly, did not help any either. Can you imaging a landlady kicking out a family with small kids one day before they were to leave because she "wanted to show the place to a potential new renter that represented money to her"?
Of course some would say this is just hearsay, but I give it as an example because this is an exception rather than teh rule BUT expats need to be aware that thins like this can happen. |
Actually, not who you mentioned. I would rather not attack the agent or agency as I do believe they are well aware of my companies guidelines and limits, so she would have nothing to gain by taking me to see a house above my limit under false pretenses. I am referring to the Lady who owns the apartment with her American husband. She claims to want to rent to foreigners, but then plays such games, only a complete idiot would look at an apartment quoted at 16 and then walk out paying 20 even if it was on the company's dime! What a stupid biatch... |
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Sorry, I somehow sometimes is an illiterate~~~~~~~ |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3727
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 04:48 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| Of course some would say this is just hearsay, but I give it as an example because this is an exception rather than the rule BUT expats need to be aware that thins like this can happen. |
My house owner once removed the washing machine when i was off at work. When I didn't get the hint they took the rest of the furniture, also while I was gone. They had sold the house but were too shy to mention it ....
Since I'm a slow learner I moved into a different house they owned. Nicer, for less money, even. Only part they forgot to mention was that the Ancestors also lived there and couldn't be moved. So, every lunar month and on holidays someone would come in for several hours and burn the cheapest incense you could imagine ...
Oh well. Here is China. |
Last edited by leidelaohu on May 08, 2008 - 04:52 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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CIA
LoopKicker
Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Posts: 888
Location: Least Expect
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| Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 04:50 PM |
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| rxg wrote: |
CIA - I have always agreed with your comments on many subjects.
Also agreed with your comments on this one.
The Chinese rather not rent their apartments at a reasonable price, than loosing face.
Also companies are paying for these apartments at a rediculous price - take SH Center for example!!! |
Chinese people should learn the following:
stealing = losing face
lying = losing face
cheating = losing face
robbing = losing face |
_________________
| wrote: |
| Every evening I died, and every evening I was born again, resurrected. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17976
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 08, 2008 - 04:58 PM |
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and some Expats should learn not to over generalize or word their complaints more concisely despite their inability to accept things really are different here. |
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Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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CoffeeHawk_0
Board Buddha
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 14387
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May 08, 2008 - 05:02 PM |
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You are all right about the MNC's, they can't be bothered to do it right, for the right price. I tried to help them save some money and they turned me down. The leases are often signed and negotiated by the company, not the expat, so even if I could have saved 5k or 10k rmb, it would have made 3 people in the office lose face, so you know it won't change. |
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rolento
Raver
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 379
Location: paperbag
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 05:42 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| and some Expats should learn not to over generalize or word their complaints more concisely despite their inability to accept things really are different here. |
Very well said. |
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