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Shanghai Expat Forum Index » City Living Forums » Relocation and Moving

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Reggin

StreetBeater

Joined: Nov 07, 2008
Posts: 2236

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Posted: Nov 24, 2008 - 06:54 PM

Cornelis wrote:

Looking at the amount of Euro trash, scumbags and East European hookers in Lounge 18 last weekend, our beloved city is still in a great shape.

Show photo or it did not happen

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Dazza
Low Seater

Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 3452
Location: In the city of cold steel

Posted: Nov 24, 2008 - 07:43 PM

^I thought you was opening a terrific new bar for us?

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Reggin

StreetBeater

Joined: Nov 07, 2008
Posts: 2236

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Posted: Nov 24, 2008 - 07:45 PM

Dazza wrote:

^I thought you was opening a terrific new bar for us?

She is opening a whack shack if I understood it correctly

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Mister_happy

Rocker

Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 620

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Posted: Nov 24, 2008 - 08:43 PM

Well if you take 10,000 expats out of Shanghai what are you letf with?

More space at the bar!

p1atl10

Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 9064
Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 06:28 AM

But fewer bars to choose from....

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Mister_happy

Rocker

Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 620

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 06:58 AM

The bars might have to lower their prices to attract what little expat trade their is left. 7.50euro a pint is a little bit high at the moment!

p1atl10

Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 9064
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 08:08 AM

Based on the exchange rate.....

Really expect the owners here to cover your foreign exchange losses?

Would not hold my breathy for that one....

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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry

jzzzzzzz

StreetBeater

Joined: July 07, 2006
Posts: 2302

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 08:40 AM

p1atl10 wrote:

Based on the exchange rate.....

Really expect the owners here to cover your foreign exchange losses?

Would not hold my breathy for that one....

Now £1 = 10 RMB I am definitely buying less pints in the expensive bars. I would expect others are doing the same.

I guess it's up to the bar owners if they want to survive.

ziccawei

Board Royalty

Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 6837
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 08:59 AM

jzzzzzzz wrote:

p1atl10 wrote:

Based on the exchange rate.....

Really expect the owners here to cover your foreign exchange losses?

Would not hold my breathy for that one....

Now £1 = 10 RMB I am definitely buying less pints in the expensive bars. I would expect others are doing the same.

I guess it's up to the bar owners if they want to survive.

Depends which way you look at it. I've recently spoken to Brits who feel they are better off now because of the weak pound against the rmb. Reverse psychology might be a useful cliche to pull out of a hat.

jzzzzzzz

StreetBeater

Joined: July 07, 2006
Posts: 2302

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 09:02 AM

ziccawei wrote:

If I was paid in RMB I would feel better off. Unfortunately I'm paid in £s.

NeilUK39

LoopKicker

Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 908

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 09:29 AM

Agree with Jzzzzz

I am also paid in GBP, so my salary has effectively been cut by 30% or 30% less value for my wonga.

I work in automotive which is going through an extremely difficult period my company announced last week to merge 2 divisions which means there is a large duplication of functions, which in turn will lead to job cuts, this is already on top of lay offs, short time working and a full business review looking at immediate and comprehensive cost cutting. Expats will i guess take a fairly big hit due to the costs. Friends i have spoken with are in similiar situations either having the contract terminated or having to relocate back to their home countries until 'things settle'.

I asked my daughters yesterday if they are seeing kids leaving from their school and both of them said that there are a number of their friends leaving at christmas before they were planning.

The high rmb value, uncertainity about the future expats leaving and generally belt tightening is bound to impact on businesses targeting the expat dollar,pound, yen or whatever. Bars that have special promotions however may do pretty well in terms of bums on seats Malones do a pretty good happy hour and food promotion, as does big bamboo, blue frog and the bulldog but other bars that insist on charging 70rmb for a pint and 180rmb for mediocre food might want to rethink their marketing plan.As for city shop prices they are just having a laugh.

It would be interesting to here from any business owners if they have seen any effects yet on their business

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ziccawei

Board Royalty

Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 6837
Location: Ziccawei
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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 10:27 AM

To jzzzzzz and neiluk all I can say is - ouch!

Neil, don't you think that, despite the pound being weak against the rmb or not, that 70 rmb for a pint or 180 rmb for a meal is an outrageous price to pay anyway?

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sandawei

Talker

Joined: Oct 18, 2008
Posts: 117
Location: Bogota -Colombia
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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 10:36 AM

In my company, they fired my Australian boss. And put me in charge in the meanwhile, i think they will hire a Chinese(returnee) now for Shanghai Manager....

Anyway, they also give me a rise, given the fact that i will have more responsabilities now...,

My old boss, was middle 30, married, with a boy. He was getting housing, school, and transport bonus.

Me, middle 20, single, and no benefit at all.., except for a big salary, now almost 20k ( its big for me !!! )

His loss , my gain. I think that from now on, young expats willing to work in a local contract with no benefits would be in high demand.. Costly Expats, with housing, schools, and a lot of expenses, will have tough times ahead...

BTW, i work in a Headhunting Company, one of the big ones...

NeilUK39

LoopKicker

Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 908

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 11:08 AM

ziccawei wrote:

Agree totally. Dont get me wrong i am not saying i agree with these prices and think its ok. However if you occasionally fancy a decent pint or some 'home' style food thats the price you have to pay and it was nice once it a while to do that. I always even after 3 and half years here do a mental conversion to GBP, Now that mental conversion has got 30% higher.

So the 'occasionally' will become now infrequently! And as for the high places.. forget it.

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NeilUK39

LoopKicker

Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 908

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 11:23 AM

sandawei wrote:

Good points Sandwei, however the reason many expats are here is because of the expertise and experience they can bring to China. Different industries have different skills sets that cant always be taught in university or through a few years training.

I have more than 25 years in my field of expertise and vast experience of working with suppliers all over the world. Basically taking a mediocre local supplier and developing them to be acceptable as global supplier. Can one of my local guys do the job, I would suggest now no and my guys in the office are worried that if i leave that will have to pick up this resposnibility. There is a basic need of understanding the work ethics and business environment outside of China, the need to understand all of factories around the world and to have a good understanding of like for like suppliers world wide. I see this frequently with our Chinese plants suppliers which are in some cases no where near to the suppliers we use outside of China. The reason is the guys developing or qualifying these suppliers have nothing to benchmark to or use as a yard stick With training then yes they could but the training is not a short term thing

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Reggin

StreetBeater

Joined: Nov 07, 2008
Posts: 2236

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 11:25 AM

Quote:

Neil, don't you think that, despite the pound being weak against the rmb or not, that 70 rmb for a pint or 180 rmb for a meal is an outrageous price to pay anyway?

I saw Erdinger pricelist they charge the bar something lik 45 or 50 RMB per half liter. I suppose the other improted draughts will be same. So what should be the bar markup ?

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NeilUK39

LoopKicker

Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 908

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 11:36 AM

Reggin wrote:

Quote:

Neil, don't you think that, despite the pound being weak against the rmb or not, that 70 rmb for a pint or 180 rmb for a meal is an outrageous price to pay anyway?

I saw Erdinger pricelist they charge the bar something lik 45 or 50 RMB per half liter. I suppose the other improted draughts will be same. So what should be the bar markup ?

Thats the big question Den, Imported beer for example strongbow, which i know you like. ranges between 65 - 75 rmb depending where you drink it. So i would guess there isnt a lot of room to reduce the price on this. Local beers maybe some room. SC's pet hate cokes and soft drinks for the kids. 40rmb for a coke WTF?

18 pound for fish and chips? no f**kin chance. As said already forward thinking bars like Malones and bulldog to name 2 are reaslising that there is a lot of competition out there for a shrinking client base and people being more frugile with their hard earned cash, and are taking action. As an example, Malones at TPlaza, was always very quite. However they now have a decent band, good long happy hours and daily food specials, there is a different buzz about the place i have been there with my wife and kids miore times in the last 3 weeks than since it opened, and will continue to 'chase the offers'

And no i dont have any affiliation to Malones group, but would be really interested to hear from any of the guys from there of bulldog how they feel the business environment is changing.

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rxg

Raver

Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 496

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 11:45 AM

I get paid in USD, over the last 3 years, my salary has decreased 20% or more from 8.31 RMB to 6.83 RMB per 1 USD.
Regarless of how much a person make, I still think that 88 RMB per drink at nice bars or 70 RMB per pint of beer is expensive.

Then then again we are paying for the atmosphere, not neccessary the products.

januza

Rocker

Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 672

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 12:07 PM

Happy im getting paid in RMB now.. used to be USD..

but I wonder.. For how long!!

juliaguulia

Reacher

Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 224
Location: JingAn
Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 12:23 PM

Quote:

40rmb for a coke WTF?

With the current exchange rate that $9 AUS for a can of coke!!!! and 80rmb for a pint is $16 AUS!!! The drinks in Shanghai are ridiculously expensive - I have always thought so even before the rise in the RMB... but being paid in RMB I am now walking around with a big smile on my face because I get so much more when sending money back home... just need to get saving and sending...

emerson

Rocker

Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 684
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 12:41 PM

Tough times are ahead for all, I’m afraid. I feel secure in my position but know of several people who have been called home rather abruptly. I am curious to see how local businesses will respond now that they are facing the first significant downturn of the domestic economy since China opened for business. Will they sense the mood and adjust prices and offerings accordingly to accommodate the market, or will they act like nothing is wrong and keep prices high---running the business into the ground but preserving face?

As noted above, for the moment the only firms that seem to be on the ball in this respect are those that primarily serve and/or are managed by westerners.

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jzzzzzzz

StreetBeater

Joined: July 07, 2006
Posts: 2302

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Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 12:54 PM

NeilUK39 wrote:

About the same for me. Once in a while has turned into never. I'm chasing the happy hours or cheaper deals. I won't be drinking Guinness or Erdinger for the foreseeable future!

rxg

Raver

Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 496

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 01:08 PM

IS starbucks coffee in China being affected like the bars?

swisscook

Ranter

Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 555

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 02:29 PM

I think Starbucks is affected... It seems to be less crowed every time I walk by there. Same with Costa, Jamaica Blue and those other high priced 5$ Latte joints. They closed a lot of shops in the US and I think the same will happen here. And I definitely think you can notice that expats are leaving. And a lot of people - not just expat only - are starting to look for more value for money. At the hotel I worked we are still doing somewhat well but we definitely feel the crunch in some of our restaurants. Especially Dinner time - we are certainly missing the 2nd round we had before. Now a lot of expats are cutting back. Also we saw a decrease in the average check for Lunch as it seems that a lot of guys have smaller lunch budgets now. We are adjusting our offering / price but and so far seem to do well with that. But I think it is only a matter of time before Shanghai gets full on hit. I am certainly no specialist for economics or social behavior, but I do think a lot of local people here understand how serious this potentially could be. There are lots of challanges & opportunities ahead.