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to move or not to move?

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ldar

Newbie

Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 2

Status: Offline

Posted: June 18, 2004 - 01:22 AM
Post subject: to move or not to move?

hi,
i'm hoping someone can help me out...
i am considering moving to shanghai in january with my boyfriend. he wants to go very much and fears nothing but maybe who will cut his hair, and i don't know anything about shanghai and want to somehow figure out if it would be for me. i am a young teacher and have been told that a job shouldn't be a problem, so my main concerns are the language barrier, other culture shocks, and meeting and making western and local friends to help with feeling isolated.
unfortunately i have to decide very very soon so i don't miss out on a job here in Canada for the fall.
any help, hints, or experiences that could help me?
thanks.
lisa

okido

Rocker

Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 667
Location: A planet called Earth
Status: Offline

Posted: June 18, 2004 - 02:18 AM
Post subject: to move or not to move?

Do you have any experience with other Asian countries? Shanghai is probably the most westernized city in China. You will find almost anything you need and want including maple syrup Smile

The city is quite modern. The expat community is huge. Local people are generally friendly. If you have people from your boyfriend's organization to help you cope with the moving and changing at the beginning stage, you will be fine figuring out how to enjoy life here. Oh, go check the Calendar section you will find this community is full of activities and communities.

Okido

Magnolia
Board Biatch

Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083

Posted: June 18, 2004 - 02:23 AM

Shanghai is great! You will have a good time here! Enroll in a language class after arrival to pick up on the basics at least. Will be helpful when shopping and navigating the streets. Meeting people won't be a bit hard. Jobs are around, especially for trained teachers. The salary may not be what you can get in Canada, but the fun, experience and people will more than compensate. I went through the same thoughts when I moved here and I have never regretted the choice. Like any place, there are pros and cons . . . but you may find that the pros outweigh the cons. I did (for the most part). As for your bf's fear . . . no worries . . . there are tons of places for him to cut his hair.

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ldar

Newbie

Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 2

Status: Offline

Posted: June 18, 2004 - 02:54 AM

okido,
hi ikido...i hope i'm responding to you here...this is new to me.
anyway, thank you so much for your reply.
no, i don't have any other experience in asia at all. we were first looking at going to hong kong, but that is no longer an option for his work. i've been told hong kong is more western especially where the english language is concerned and just easier to adapt to in general. i guess everyone sees it different.
i was actually also told that shanghai is somewhat 'male' oriented, and women are not recognized or given opportunity in the same way. the woman who said this was in business in shanghai and also said my bf would likely be doing business at dinners often and felt i may feel isolated in general. the comment sounds questionable in general but thought i'd throw it out there.
thanks again.
lisa

TheBee

Reacher

Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 258

Status: Offline

Posted: June 18, 2004 - 04:48 PM

You sound like you're pretty apprehensive about the move to Shanghai. I don't know where else you have been in the world so everything is relative. If you've been to developing countries and managed well, then you'll more likely adapt to this city.
There's been a lot of hype in the media about how great Shanghai is, comparing it to world class cities like Paris, Tokyo or NYC. But it is not. The fact is, Shanghai is modern, has plenty of western standard amenities but it is still a developing country in terms of mentalities. You will be confronted to this cultural gap very frequently and you will, like most westerners who come here, complain just about everything. Check this board for examples, there are many! So you need to keep your expectations in check.

There is a fast growing expat population here. I've been shocked to find packed bars of almost only westerners. There are plenty of clubs and chic restaurants offering a variety of cuisines and there seem to be a new one opening every day. So if you want the "safety" of what you are accustomed to, you will be able to find it here. It just will be peppered with what is singularly Chinese or even Shanghainese: pushy, dirty, polluted, anarchic... and many more things!

Do not try to compare Hong Kong to Shanghai! I lived in HK and expected SH to be similar... wrong! In terms of social development SH is at least 10 years behind. But SH is exciting in that it is extremely dynamic. If you're adventurous, enjoy diversity, like to go out and meet people and self motivated... SH is for you! If you're into nurturing friendships, enjoy the outdoors, building a family... then SH might be a bit difficult...

okido

Rocker

Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 667
Location: A planet called Earth
Status: Offline

Posted: June 19, 2004 - 04:24 AM

Idar:

You are welcome. I agree with TheBee. I just came back from Hong Kong from a weekend holiday. Boy! That was civilization. But Shanghai isn't that bad at all. Having been living here for a little more than two years, there is only one thing that I really don't like about Shanghai. It's so far away from nature. Although most of the streets in Shanghai are lined with trees but the real nature is 6 hours by car on the highway away!

As for the business scene, it may and may not be true. I have some friends are doing business here but I seldom hear them and their spouses complaining about that. Would you feel isolated? I am enjoying a whole new network of friends, including locals and non-locals. I consider this an expansion of life. I am sure as long as you are open for new friendship, you will get to meet lots of interesting people and make lots of friends here.

Let us know how you decide.

tx2sh
Reacher
Reacher

Joined: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 209

Posted: June 19, 2004 - 10:47 AM

i, too, was apprehensive about my move to shanghai...i didn't know what to expect. while my concerns were different than yours, i don't think you have anything to worry about. some things culturally were shocking to me, but i think that's what makes this experience exciting...like anything new, it takes time getting used to it.

as for meeting people,i've met quite a few locals at the saturday morning coffe meetings (you can meet many expats as well) and the canadians have a group that meets weekly (on fri nights i think)...if you do a search on the board you should be able to find posts about the logistics.

although my length of stay is not indefinite, i wish it was. good luck with your decision.

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Drizzle

Veejay

Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Posts: 2036

Status: Offline

Posted: June 19, 2004 - 11:13 AM

Idar - In my opinion you must do it! I too came here with my boyfriend, and yes it was hard at first, he started work the very next day we arrived, and I had to spend Xmas in a hotel not knowing a single soul! I am sure that is not going to happen to you, but whilst you are here, your boyfriends job will take president, and there will be times you feel lonely and/or 'second best'. But Shanghai offers a lifestyle which for me in the UK, would be way out of reach..and so I take every opportunity to enjoy my life here, granted its by myself half the time, but that is the way it is. Yes, it is hard work, added to that - when you first arrive, you notice the staring, and the fact you cannot go shopping without an audience, but you will get used to it in time.

The best thing you can do when you arrive is join any community groups, don't be shy, everyone was a newbie here once. Once you have met people everything becomes easy because you no longer have to struggle getting around on your own. You will develop a love/hate relationship with the place, some days you will feel so frustrated because the most simplest things to sort out are often the hardest [you will know what I mean by this when you get here]. Try and get a job, so at least you feel you have some 'use' for being here and not just becoming another 'tai tai'. Shanghai is a fascinating place, if you are open minded, I am sure you and your boyfriend will love it here.

psychodrew

Reacher

Joined: July 31, 2003
Posts: 236
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: June 19, 2004 - 11:55 AM

If you are adventurous, I would go for it. Shanghai is the most westernized city in China, but it is still China. Some of the cultural differences can be frustrating, including the secondary role of women. You can adjust to the changes, but I think it's important that you want to be here and not feel like you've been taken away from something.

Good luck.

Rache

Newbie

Joined: May 05, 2004
Posts: 2

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 12:00 AM

Hi Lisa
I am also aprehensive about our move to SHanghai. My boyfriend has been seconded and we should be arriving from the UK in approx 6-8 weeks time. To be honest since we found out were we going, I have heard nothing but excellent reports about the city and how much we'll love it and not want to return here. As times gone by I have realised that you only get one shot at this life and every opportunity that comes your way, you must grab it with both hands. 'Home' isn't going anywhere, whats the worst that can happen.........you go home?? I too think you should make that move, maybe we can get together when you two arrive?

Good luck
Rache

acujerjer
Board Royalty

Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 7770
Location: up your butt and around the corner

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 12:56 AM

You will feel isolated at times and have culture shock at some point, but all in all you will value this experience. Just come to Shanghai. It's something you got to see. You will go back to your country and feel one up on everyone. Also, Shanghai is a great starting point for travel all over Asia. If you don't lke it, you can just go somewhere else. Or better yet, you can work in Shanghai then take vacations in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia or wherever.
Just expect to be treated as a foreigner. Don't expect to be accepted as an equal. Just enjoy being on the outside. The food is very good. It is safe, and you don't have to worry about Malaria and things like that. If you play your cards right you can save a lot of money too. The Chinese language I have to say is the most interesting part of the culture. Many foreigners fall in love with it. I know I got hooked.
You will get stared at, and asked rediculous questions by people who have no idea what you are like. You will meet many people who have never met a foreigner, or have only met a few. Don't try and blend in. You can't. Just enjoy being the foreigner.
There is a certain chaos to the place which I find fun. Things constantly contradict themselves and many things will not make sense to you. You will find yourself laughing at how bizarre you think things are. It is an all out wild experience. I wouldn't say a smooth ride. It is just wild.
By reading at lot of these posts you will know where a lot of Chinese stand on their politics. Just don't get involved. It is no fun to argue with them. Let them believe their beliefs. Don't come trying to change anyone either. Come to experience a tottaly unique place. Happy Trials!

acujerjer
Board Royalty

Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 7770
Location: up your butt and around the corner

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 12:56 AM

doublewood

Seeker

Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 42

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 02:47 AM

I think I'm in the same situation as u, I will go to Shanghai with my bf in the end of Oct, but I think for the life living there is not a big problem since there is a modern city, for the language, I think u need to take some chinese course:)

same as u, I have no friend and no relations there, just thinking about how to pass the day b4 I get a job...hehehe

GOOD LUCK !

peacefulstar

Seeker

Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 46

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 05:38 AM

I'm reading this and wondering how all of you are planning on living with your boyfriends and girlfriends when the Chinese have a law prohibiting this, called the Public Security Law. My boyfriend and I are arriving in August and we are about to get married early because of the law.
My school strictly abides by the law, so .... But, are all of you going to be risking this????

jacee0516

Barker

Joined: Sep 05, 2003
Posts: 135

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 09:58 AM

Hello.Lisa?I am Jacee,seldom come here.I think you have a good idea to move to shanghai with you bf.But i must tell you that question--now,if you want to find a job in shanghai ,it's more difficult.Special "teacher",because most of foreigners coming here to all become teachers.So that their salaries are not higher,and many foreigner-ppl need jobs..So,i think it's better before you coming here,you must check it and find the job ..and then coming here..good luck to you..

doublewood

Seeker

Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 42

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 11:18 AM

I'm reading this and wondering how all of you are planning on living with your boyfriends and girlfriends when the Chinese have a law prohibiting this, called the Public Security Law.

Is that true? but it's pointless to make it prohibit? May I know more about that?:)and good to hear u that u will get marry soon...heeh, will u have wedding party in Shanghai? Smile

Regards

Drizzle

Veejay

Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Posts: 2036

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 12:09 PM

^ Thats utter bollocks, I am here with my boyfriend just as I have already stated above. I have already written about how to get the visa with your boyfriend, its in the visa section, so have a look there if you really need to know about it. There was no way I was going marry my boyfriend just so I could stay here, it would have then become a marriage of conveniance.

peacefulstar

Seeker

Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 46

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 03:12 PM

It's not utter bullocks, it's true, just a matter of whether or not you want to risk it. I think for people not employed by a school it might not come to the attention of the police. When I posted a question about it, Michael, the coordinator of this site, told me that it's true, so I think he's a reputable source. ??
My school is abiding by the law so I have to follow their rules, but I know that the Public Security Law is not just for my school.
Knowing that I have to register with the police when I get there, and that he and I will have the same address for registering made me nervous. Normally, I would risk it but I'm coming to a new country with many different laws, so I don't want to assume that they accept the same as is done in the US.

Drizzle

Veejay

Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Posts: 2036

Status: Offline

Posted: June 26, 2004 - 04:37 PM

Erm, have you not read what I have posted? I actually live here, I registered with the police, the PSB are aware I am not married. I have a z visa based on the fact I am here with my boyfriend. I have the same visa married women or other 'trailing spouses' have. What is the risk you are talking about? I think the info you have been told is totally outdated. I know many people who live here unmarried and its all totally legal and and above board.

okido

Rocker

Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 667
Location: A planet called Earth
Status: Offline

Posted: June 27, 2004 - 03:47 PM
Post subject: to move or not to move?

Drizzle wrote:

Agree with Drizzle. This law is just a formality as many other things in China. Come to think abou that: How can they differentiate unmarried couple living together and roommates who are sharing a flat? There are many people sharing flats, including foreigners and locals and foreingers sharing flat with locals.

Don't worry! Just ask normal as it is a normal thing. No one will make a big deal out of it. Of course, getting married and come to Shanghai as spous/dependent will make visa application things simplier but that's the only reason that you HAVE to get married. Of course, if you two feel like getting married. Congratulations!