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karnex420
Raver
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
June 25, 2004 - 02:34 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Cutting in line |
I like to give myself extra time to do things so I can be a detached observer here. I think in the West, if somebody cuts line you say, "Hey Dude. There's a line here. (Unless you live in New York or L.A.)"
But here there are so many people fresh off the farm, literally. They may look "westernized" but I've seen an old couple stranded between lanes of traffic just horrified, hanging on to each not knowing what was going on, because they didn't know what a red light was. I could see it in their faces when they made it back to the curb. Like, "What did we do wrong?" And the younguns busily explained.
In a market you crowd to the front naturally.
So I'm still macho, but I'm not going to say anything. |
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PhatAV8r
Raver
Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Qingpu District, SHANGHAI
Status: Offline
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June 25, 2004 - 02:52 PM |
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There is a system to this habit. If they believe that they can slip in front of you, they will. And, sometimes you do the same thing, you simply tell them to "pai dui". You would be amazed at what happens. #1 the service folks (if this is a KFC, McD's, or immigration at the airport) will usually tell the guy to get in line. #2, the rest of the Chinese around you will generally take it from there. They were just waiting for someone to say something. I try to be polite about it, and sometimes, like you, I blow it off. Other times, when someone crowds in with the 'flying elbow' I have to use my weight and bulk advantage to BLOCK the way. I have a tendency to be Darwinist in crowds in China. |
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Anniboodk
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 2787
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 25, 2004 - 03:19 PM |
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I find myself saying Pai Dui to people more and more. It's funny the reaction I get, #1 the person seems shocked that I said that and after a moment of silence starts yelling at me and telling me that I'm not standing in line properly. Other times, the person will seem shocked and then look really embarressed and kind of don't know what they should do (i.e go stand at the back of the line or stay there).
So this proves that they definately are aware of the fact that it is wrong to cut in line, but since nobody ever really says anything, they just continue to do it. |
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Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there? I'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of its butt." |
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BTK
Newbie
Joined: June 25, 2004
Posts: 7
Status: Offline
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June 25, 2004 - 04:03 PM |
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Just do it. Lots of times I find people are genuinely embarassed when told "pa dui", or "bie cha dui" (not sure about the pinyin). If they choose to ignore, don't be afraid to tell them "ni mei li miao" (no manners). If they yell back, well it's up to you what to do next!!! A friend of mine has a fine array of Chinese curses at his disposal which can effective. It drives me crazy, especially when I see men push my female colleagues out of the way - I have found a quick hip-and-shoulder a good counter to the flying elbow. |
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shazbot
Lurker
Joined: June 30, 2004
Posts: 25
Status: Offline
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July 02, 2004 - 03:11 AM |
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yea, i'm getting close to cursing the people at the subway station. I'm like the 3rd or 4th in a long line, and they just walk right up, and cut in right after the guys finished getting his ticket. I think next time someone does that to me, I'm just gona curse @ them in shanghainese. |
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Goosie
Board Grand Dame
Joined: July 16, 2003
Posts: 4776
Location: Singapore
Status: Offline
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July 02, 2004 - 05:27 AM |
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Yup, I know the feeling. I sharpened my elbows every time I stepped across the border into China. Hong Kong can be pretty bad, too, although people tend to queue up more regularly there. Must be the British influence. |
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karnex420
Raver
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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July 02, 2004 - 01:09 PM |
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Just remember to keep your sense of humor. Shanghai women love their men and I never see a look of surpise on their face when a man wins the race with a woman for a seat on the subway. Clearly we don't understand the groundrules and foreign women have the most temptation to "lose it". When I go to seat a Chinese lady at dinner, she invariably thinks that I want her seat. But her eyes sure light up when I explain the custom. Please don't hurry if you aren't feeling good one day. China is a nobel country who is working very hard to "understand our ways". |
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AlvinShi
Seeker
Joined: July 03, 2004
Posts: 41
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 03, 2004 - 11:23 PM |
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There do exist such unpleasant phenomenon that Chinese don't obey traffic laws or something. But it's strange for me to find out sometimes that westerners also cross the road when the light is red. How does that happen? Or they think in China they don't need to obey that rules as in their own countries? Let me know the reasons...ps I am local Shanghainese and new here.... |
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Monk
Raver
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 440
Status: Offline
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July 04, 2004 - 12:17 AM |
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I cross the road during red lights all the time. I also cross in the middle and all sorts of other naughty things. I also do this in my hometown, throughout America, and in every country I've been to. Why wait at a red if there are no cars coming? But what I *don't* do is make cars or bicycles slow down or change course for me, since I would consider that rude.
Seriously, I don't know where Chinese people get the idea that we don't have these bad pedestrian habits in our own countries or that we "learned" it from the locals (I've heard this kind of thing from *many* Chinese). I would say the difference is that, in America, it's quite rare to see a pedestrian seriously disrupting traffic, as opposed to the people I see here who creep out into the intersection, obviously blocking anyone turning right. |
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karnex420
Raver
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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July 04, 2004 - 02:17 PM |
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I just saw on one of those TVs on the buses a man getting up and giving his seat to an older person, also for a lady with a child. Then it showed someone holding onto an old person as he was getting off the bus. Too cool. Nice music videos too. |
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Anniboodk
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 2787
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 05, 2004 - 12:22 PM |
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I was on the subway the other day and stood up to give my seat to this pregant lady who was standing right in front of me. It was quite obvious that I was giving her my seat when this youngish guy just slid in from me behind me and took the seat. I was shocked, I told him to get up and give the woman the seat and he just stared at me with a blank look on his face and the pregnant lady just smiled and told me not to worry. I could not believe that nobody else said anything. |
_________________
Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there? I'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of its butt." |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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July 05, 2004 - 02:51 PM |
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I don't say anything. I just temple punch by accident these days. An elbow in the side of the head works wonders and teaches manners in the only way that seems to have any effect here. |
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Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083
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July 05, 2004 - 02:59 PM |
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My Mandarin is horrid . . . what does "pai dui" mean? Is it rude to say it? |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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Anniboodk
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 2787
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 05, 2004 - 03:03 PM |
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Pai dui means to queue up/line up. |
_________________
Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there? I'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of its butt." |
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itv1980
Low Seater
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Revalidation centre
Status: Offline
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July 05, 2004 - 04:26 PM |
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AlvinShi: Why obey the RED light in China. First of all, no matter if the light is green or red, cars, crazy bycicles riders will come anyway. Everytime you have to cross the road and no police nearby then its like russian roulette. Playing with your life.
When cars stand still, I'm not obstructing traffic I cross the road no matter the light. Because I belief the Chinese think the traffic signs and lights are mere decorations of the street.
Chinese also never understands the concept of letting people out first and then enter. Which makes you fight your way out of the bus, metro, elevator etc.
When you give them an elbow, they stare in amazement why I did that. Well I need to go to work too and have to get off and your not moving to the side then I shove you to the side. The same in the bus, people pushing, giving elbows, wants to pass while no room, shouting all the time in the bus. Now a days I'm the same. Why be polite?
They're not polite to you, so now I give many elbows, step on purpose on feet, toes, bags, legs etc. Even push further when going out of the bus. If I don't do that, my back and arms are full of blue spots of what others do to me. 
Asking politely to be careful doesn't even help either, the only language those poeple understand is the elbow, hip/shoulder thrust, step on leg, falling turn etc.
I'm not impolite but forced to, because if I don't do so people just literally step on you. So I rather give a preventious elbow, kick, punch to defend myself. Everyday the same..... 
Ivo |
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RRRRRRRRGGGGHHH!!! |
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shanghaibarry
Barker
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 07, 2004 - 09:03 PM |
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My two experiences with telling people off when they cut in line:
(1) at the airport security check counter queued up after 10 minutes, a guy suddenly appeared in front of me, I tapped his shoulder and told him to get to the back, a cold and blank stare, tapped his shoulder again, he yelled at me "WHO ARE YOU?!", I just quietly told him not to bring shame to Chinese people and go to the back of the queue. He refused, I said the same thing again, he shouted "AREN'T YOU CHINESE?!", I ended up resorting to my last resort to show him my passport and tell him that not all foreigners look lao wai and not foreigners appear or speak differently from Chinese. Then the security officer came and took him away.
(2) At Hongqiao airport, a huge size fellow cut in behind me, no one from the back of the queue told him off, I used the same polite manner to tell him to queue up, he turned violent and his wife helped him to push me... I called the taxi queue guy to get airport security to escort him out, security came and told me not to create trouble... sigh.
Will I stop and join the crowd to be cold and indifferent? Probably not in the foreseeable future. I don't buy in to the concept of an eye for an eye, or when in Rome do what the Romans do.
One thing I am still trying to figure out is why such behavior is also common at the airport, or when boarding a plane? It won't leave until they are on board. |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 08, 2004 - 04:48 AM |
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Cutting in line in China - something to do with selfishness out of insecurity ...
D |
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Entangled Quantum Effect's at its best. |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6412
Location: 31 N 121 E
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July 08, 2004 - 08:38 AM |
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Something to do with lack of basic social skills also. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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fukuman
Wonder Wit
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 3699
Status: Offline
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July 08, 2004 - 01:13 PM |
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Put your foot on the seat ( chinese hate that, they have some weird obssesion with things they consider "dirty", but they do the most unhygenic things with no qualms.) then c who takes the seat.
I read a theory that a civilisation can be judged by its ability to queue. Basically animals will always put their own interest and fight to get food 1st. If they queue every1 benefits and makes a better society. I believe this, it makes sense
Of course the UK is the nation of the best queuers ( no mis-spelling, i hope) in the world and therefore ( as every brit knows) - the most civilised.
China is the nation of the worst queuers ive evr seen sooooooooo....go figure |
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karnex420
Raver
Joined: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 488
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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July 08, 2004 - 07:47 PM |
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Just for the sake of argument, doesn't that sound like George Orwell's " Time Machine" where the cattle-like humans wait in line.
And I'm sure I hear about the Chinese always staying in formation.
I don't think they are that different than American farmers. I remember when I was little, my uncle from Oklahoma amazed me being from San Diego. Swallowing raw eggs whole right from the hen house. What would the Chinese think of that? We all had a go of it though. And we laughed, in between gags.
I travelled across country by car with four baby oppossums and my Grandad from Tennessee, and damn if he didn't bring his spattoon with him. |
Last edited by karnex420 on Oct 02, 2004 - 08:31 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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Goosie
Board Grand Dame
Joined: July 16, 2003
Posts: 4776
Location: Singapore
Status: Offline
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July 09, 2004 - 04:52 AM |
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Karnex, please! Swallowing raw eggs is nothing compared to the vile crap I've seen Chinese eat. And at least your grandfather used a spittoon! The Chinese just spit wherever the hell they feel like it. I had to polish my shoes more frequently there than anyplace else. And I wore surgical gloves to do it! |
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shanghaibarry
Barker
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 09, 2004 - 11:07 AM |
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we are all creature of habits... it takes time to change. it am now more amazed than disgusted by what are seemingly strange occurances around me. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083
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July 09, 2004 - 03:05 PM |
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I was behind a woman at Alldays this morning to buy my daily rations of Mentos and Dove bars. She was finishing her transaction and a man walked in, threw a fiver down and demanded some cigarettes. The first lady finished and the sales lady looked at the man, then proceded take my purchases, ring them up, give me the change and put the items in the bag before she even acknowleged the line cutter!
Will wonders never cease?? One of the first times I have ever seen that happen since I have been here. Put a smile on my face that lasted at least an hour . . . but then I am easily entertained. |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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shanghaibarry
Barker
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 09, 2004 - 03:35 PM |
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happens in McDonald's all the time, and KFCs as well - will give full credit to proper training. |
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One_Brick_Shy
Rocker
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: Out looking for a brick, of course.
Status: Offline
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Aug 08, 2004 - 01:48 PM |
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| dyniquee wrote: |
Cutting in line in China - something to do with selfishness out of insecurity ...
D |
Right on! One billion, three hundred million cutters can't be wrong. I also attribute their quest to control as another symptom.  |
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The only difference between you and me is that you're you and I'm me. |
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