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vespertilia
Reacher
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 233
Location: London,UK
Status: Offline
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Aug 09, 2004 - 09:54 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Monsignor Della Casa's galateo= good manners at table |
i wanna tell u guys what i experienced last weekend with some ch folks.I went on a trip with my company, that means me the only laowai and a crowd of chinese (mamas papas and children)...what disgusted me the most was how rude they are when they eat. Maybe it's because of my background but it seems they don't know the Galateo's basic rules: don't suck yr soup macking nasty noises, don't spit on the table, don't show other people what the hell u are chewing, don't chew and spit it out, don't bring your mouth to the dish but the spoon or the chopsticks to your mouth, don't eat like a pig or a famelic animal but try to be polite.
have u ever noticed what a mess is on the table when they have finished?....
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no words..i should start an import of Monsignor Della casa's galateo book.
another one:why chinese women wear nylon short socks under their sabot, high heel and even gym-shoes??? wow! what a trend!vive fashion! it would make shiver to death Valentino and Armani! |
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One_Brick_Shy
Rocker
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: Out looking for a brick, of course.
Status: Offline
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Aug 09, 2004 - 03:11 PM |
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If things like that disgust you, you could always consider going home where things are "normal". Remember, the Chinese were here first and can eat however they want to. I've seen many laowai with worse table manners and for that matter, worse manners period. Oh, and the nylon short socks with high heels is a sex statement. Try wearing some and see what happens! |
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The only difference between you and me is that you're you and I'm me. |
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vespertilia
Reacher
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 233
Location: London,UK
Status: Offline
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Aug 09, 2004 - 04:02 PM |
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please..u're talking to one of the most open minded and tolerant people of the world...i know they were here before me but do u know the word "decency"..i think nobody in the world should eat that way..
short nylon socks sexy????please where d'u come from??? |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6332
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Aug 09, 2004 - 04:18 PM |
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Well I said it before in another thread. Lack of basic social skills. You can notice a change though, specially in the younger people. They realize very well that eating like a pig is not exactly cool.
I remember in my company we sent a lot of our sales engineers (on their request) to a special training course to learn table manners and basic table etiquette. With remarkable results I must say. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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vespertilia
Reacher
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 233
Location: London,UK
Status: Offline
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Aug 09, 2004 - 04:25 PM |
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yeah and in the other thread i perfectly agree with u andreas, lack of basic social skills...it's true, young middle class people are aware that sth has to change |
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One_Brick_Shy
Rocker
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: Out looking for a brick, of course.
Status: Offline
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Aug 09, 2004 - 08:36 PM |
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What I'm saying here is do we have the right to pass judgement on them in their own country? I say not. And yes, as Andreas says, lack of basic social skills is correct. But then again, by whose standards? The younger generation is changing--true. However, the older generation hasn't or is doing so slowly. Should they be required to adapt Western standards just because we are "offended" by them. I say not. I'll repeat, if we don't like it then we can go home and wait for the younger generation to grow up and then we can come back and not be offended. Why must we push our standards on other? The Chinese will change when they are ready to change. In the meantime, I think we should be more tolerent of their culture and diversity and respect that. I live in a more remote area and probably experience more "shock" than those in SH. If I didn't like it, I'd go home. Regarding the socks, what's the problem of them wearing what they want to wear? Me thinks we are sometimes too judgemental. If everyone were into conformity then me thinks it would be a pretty dull world. Why must we conform to what others think or want? As my daddy said "March to your own drummer as many in the world march to everyone elses'." Just my thoughts. Please don't be offended. |
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The only difference between you and me is that you're you and I'm me. |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6332
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Aug 09, 2004 - 09:11 PM |
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OBS,
I agree with most of your points. Only I think nobody requires anybody here to adapt to Western standards. First of all I am not utterly impressed by a lot of standards which are considered Western. But then I have traveled too much maybe. Most of the Asian people are far ahead of the west when it comes to that, take for example Japan. I DO think that there are a number of universal basic standards of behavior between civilized people, and adapting to those would not be a bad idea for China. It is happening, but as you correctly stated, it will take time. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Aug 10, 2004 - 11:04 PM |
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one brick sky made some valid points and so did Andreas (hmmm, still can't believe it...anyhow)
vespertilia, I understand it disgusts you and there are Chinese people out there dislike this kind of bad manner, too! I think good manner builds based on the education level, as well as the awareness of the society. Let's face it there are still a large number of Chinese people who can't get enough education, or they are merely able to maintain a life they are yet aware of how much it matters. It takes generations. so be patient, or I assume you have to go further and see what's outside Shanghai. |
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Ah, the ubiquitous idiots... |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6332
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Aug 11, 2004 - 01:19 AM |
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There are lots of Chinese who hate this kind of behaviour. Specially when they had a chance to get some exposure outside of China. Just to give them a different idea about how people can interact. The worst behaviour I have seen is not by poor farmers by the way, but by the newly rich. This is also not limited to China. Go anywhere in the world, and you will find that the "newly rich" are the ones with the worst manners, and the biggest display of "ignorance breeds arrogance". Does not matter where you go, it's all the same. Like a law of nature  |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Aug 11, 2004 - 09:38 PM |
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again i agree with ya on the new rich people, what's up to people who gets rich overnight? they act like an adolescent who just starts to grow his moustache. or they think since they are rich they rule everything? in this case i think it's more like an "arrogance breeds ignorance." f*ck the nouveau riche.  |
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Ah, the ubiquitous idiots... |
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Ouling
Barker
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Atlanta Georgia, USA
Status: Offline
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Aug 29, 2004 - 03:17 PM |
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I must agree with you completely, folks in shanghai are rude man. i went there 4 years ago and i could not believe people do not hold the door for others. they don't say please, and they do not chew quietely. but the fashion is strange because we're American, or where ever your from. but this is another culture, so we must put away our ethnocentrism. we're here to have fun, get drunk, and get laid, not to judge. |
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Do you have a good and honorable reason to be in Shanghai? |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Sep 03, 2004 - 11:38 AM |
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Bon giorno, Vespertilia. Your criticism of the locals is partially justifiable. The table manner is indeed bad, and your disgust is only fair. Common courtesy dictates considerations for others, and one does not need Galateo's basic rules for that.
But the socks? Now you just passed from common sense to silly bias, at that point. There's nothing universal with how one wears her "nylon short socks". Didn't I detect a heady dose of Italian arrogance there?
In fact, go read "The Italians" by Luigi Barzini, about how the Italian "fashion sense" was perceived by others around WWII, and you will find some of the same adjectives you just used on the locals. Sure, you folks are the coolest dressers at present, but there's nothing inevitable and permanent in that. Nor is the Chinese vulgarity.
One would have thought a person from an old civilization will have a sounder perspective than me stupid American... |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Sep 03, 2004 - 11:39 AM |
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Yes, Chinese do seem to be short on civility. Some people will change; some will never (Chinese nouveau riche are as socially disgusting as "self-made men" around the globe). Actually, you may be surprised to find out how eagerly many young middle-class folks welcome good manners and new protocols.
But then they are dismissed under the derogatory term, "Xiao-zi", by the barbarian horde called "Fen-qing". |
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