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Caesara
Post Roaster
Joined: July 31, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: The Middle Kingdom (Shanghai)
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Nov 12, 2004 - 12:48 PM |
 
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| serend wrote: |
| Allow me to return the favor: if you like "Suzhou River" for the reason above, I would highly recommend Wang Xiao-shuai to you. His "So Close to Paradise" is an overall stronger film than "Suzhou River". In fact, I believe the director of "Suzhou River" may have borrowed a bit too lavishly from that earlier film. |
So Close to Paradise was brilliant as well! The moment when Wang Tong whirls around in that alleyway and stares him down, popping her bubblegum, is perfect. She's vulnerable and entirely in control at the same moment. The glitter and fluff of the "opulent" nightclub and the dilapidated wreck of the apartment contrast clearly. The jerkiness of the film itself helps evoke the jumpy uncertainty of the characters' lives. Very well done.
Yes, I saw Beijing Bicycle. I was deeply impressed by the scene when the gang of boys were beating the crap out of him in that unfinished building and he just cried and clung to the bicycle. Then the whole "sharing" plan. Excellent, indeed.
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
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Nov 12, 2004 - 05:01 PM |
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"So Close to Paradise" is noirish, yet with depth. Yes, I am really impressed by Wang Tong, too. She's one of the few Chinese actresses who are capable of more complex preformances, such as bravado underscored with vulnerability, as in the alleyway staring-down as you astutely noted. Gong Li is very weak and monotomous, in comparison.
Wang Tong did not bloom into a star, which tells a lot of the sorry state of Chinese cinema. A fellow victim of Chinese obtuseness is Duan Xiu, in "Ballad of Yellow River". BTW: did you see that one? That film is not great but quite worth seeing.
"BJ Bicycle" is one of the most lyrical films from China in recent decades. It's sentimental without being cloy, and beautiful without being over-decorative. But the most extraordinary thing about it is its success in completely staying away from fetishizing the young virility of early manhood. This fetish for the child brute tainted many coming-of-age films from all over the world, incl China's very own "The Days of Sunshine". Wang's steering away form it is all the more admirable in a male director growing up in CR. |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Nov 12, 2004 - 08:51 PM |
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| serend wrote: |
Zhou Xun took my breath away in "Emperor and Assasin", playing the blind girl of the swordsmith. She went downhill from there quite rapidly. Of the 4 Starlets of China, I positively hate Zhao Wei and Zhang ZiYi, indifferent to Zhou Xun, but oh my, isn't Xu Jing-lei something else! Her face is illuminated with intelligence and strength of character. She's the only Chinese on screen that I am deeply attracted to. But I read that her favorite actor is Kevin Costner...sigh, no one is perfect...
I have seen 2 films by Fruit Chan. One ("Scent of Dorian") I really admire, the other ("Public Toilet") is so-so: he tried to pull off too many tricks in one film, and hence lost coherence. But even when his films flop, they flop in interesting ways. I have bought "Hollywood, HK" and "Dumpling" recently, though I haven't got around to watch them, yet. Tonight is my "Opera Night". "Il Nozze di Figaro".
BTW: is that you in your avatar?? |
i hate Zhang ziyi ,too.  saw her performance in "2046",disgusting....she always plays roles like whores,very affected.by the way,i dont like "2046",Wang jia wei's film is worse and worse,too many tricks and pretends that he is a deep director,but...i prefer "in the mood of love".
Fruit chan's movie is worse and worse,hehe.what did he mean in "public toilet"?maybe bcs i'm very unreflecting.his "made in HK" is better.i recommend another HK director,Hou hsiao hsien,his "the flower of shanghai" is based on a famous writer Zhang ai ling,it's a story about whores and their men in early shanghai,but the whore is very different from what we think,they have a longterm relationship with men,and not just for deal,money,they love each other,just like guy's girlfriends,in the film,hou hsiao hsien make a pure shanghai atmosphere,including dialogue,all in shanghainese dialect.but HK actors speak very pure shanghainese,so it sounds very strange.  |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Nov 12, 2004 - 09:12 PM |
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| serend wrote: |
I don't remember if Campion is kiwi or Aussie.
I can tell you a few Aussie films that are "supposed" to be good: "Picnic by Hanging Rock", "Galipoli" (as homoerotic as "Top Gun"), "Last Wave", etc.. I like none of these. What I do like is one early Kate Winslet film, "Heavenly Creatures". And "Jackie and Hillary" (about the cellist Jackie du Pre) is not too bad. I love Rachel Griffith! One of the only contribution kiwis made to civilization, besides a few bottles of decent sauvignon blanc and OK chard..
But the gem of Aussie film-making is Nicholas Roeg, who made "Don't Look Now", "The Man Who Fell to Earth", and "Walkabout", among many classics. His movies can be somewhat eccentric, but the visual is always fastidiously beautiful, in an understated way. I strongly recommend him, niko. |
Campion seems to be kiwi,thanks for your recommend,serend.but not many aussie movies here,i think.so i have to search,search,and search... 
by the way,have you got "bad education" by Almodov?i'm searching for it.
seeing your comment on chinese movies,i feel ashamed,as a chinese,havent seen a lot chinese movies  years ago,i saw "bath",was touched much.a public bathroom will be pulled down,causes some sentimental stories.i suddenly think of another short chinese movie in "ten minutes older",a similar story,an old house will be pulled down...the story was written by Chen kaige,very good.another chinese director Jia zhangke to recommend.
p.s:niko is in the avatar
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
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Nov 12, 2004 - 10:16 PM |
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Niko: hou hsiao hsien is actually Taiwanese. Yes, I have seen "The Flower of Shanghai". Not one of my favorite Hou films. I like his "Good Men Good Women" very much. Besides, the Shanghai dialect spoken by Tony Leoung and others sounds kinda funny to me...Liu Jia Ling's Shanghai-nese is halfway decent, though...
No, I haven't seen any Roeg movie here. I'll buy one and leave it at a clandestine "drop-spot" for you if I do... No "Bad Education", either.
"Bath" is Zhang Yuan, yes? A bit too sentimental for me, I am afraid. I like Zhang's earlier films, incl. "Guo Nian Hui Jia" and "Dong Gong Xi Gong". Have you seen "Crazy English" on DVD?
I like Chinese cinema. When it's good, it's really good. But it is not good very often. Let's hope the freedom of expression can be realized sooner rather than later. The talent is defintely there.
In fact, I myself recommended Jia ZhangKe elsewhere. I may go to Shan-Xi Province in the winter, just to be near "Jia ZhangKe country". I also heard about Ning Xin, a woman director who's got quite an attitude and who's supposed to be really good. I've never been able to find even one single DVD by her. No offense, niko, but there are not a lot of intelligent movie-goers in China...do you know Jia lived on 2200RMB/month, in Beijing, one of the most expensive cities in China? Should be a national shame, really...
Which one in the avatar is niko, the big or the small one? |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Nov 13, 2004 - 11:03 AM |
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Tony leoung's performance is stylized,i think,nearly in every film,"2046","in the mood of love","A fei's story".....a silent,gloomy man,why did he win "best actor's" award,strange,his girlfriend Liu jia ling speaks halfway decent shanghainese,bcs she is a suzhou girl,somewhat close to shanghainese.
most chinese directors are not rich,except commerical film maker,like Zhang yimou(his earlier movies r good,"lifetimes",etc),Fen xiaogang(the richest director,his "mobile phone" led to many marriage and trust crises.to me,his movies are so so).most young directors,like Jia zhangke,begin to make movies in a non-exoteric status,usually their movies cant get the permissions to play in theatres,so they cant get enough sponsor,especailly domestic sponsor.i notice that some of Jia's movies are sponsored by japan or HK filmmaker.in some way,chinese movie examine and approve system has restricted development of more good films from young directors.
i'm also searchin Ning xin's films,no results yet.maybe should try to download from internet. |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Nov 13, 2004 - 11:07 AM |
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oh,i hear of "crazy english",havent seen it,maybe i should try it to improve my english,lol
by the way,you seem like donkeys very much,eh?...well,c u Mr.bottom:) |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Nov 13, 2004 - 12:17 PM |
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Tony Leung is a perfect actor for an auteur director like Wang Kai-Wai (who's Shanghai-nese, I heard), who generally has his own master vision to construct and would not tolerate actors using the film as a platform to project their own persona. Yes, Wang's films have been reduced to mere gimmicks. 2046 is very emtionally detached, compared to "In the Mood for Love".
You know, one of the things that attract me to Wang is the atmosphere of late 50s to early 60s, post-colonial "Pan-Asianist" world across the Chinese communties in SouthEast Asia. A person can have breakfast in a hamlet in Laos, talk business over lunch in Cambodia by Lake Diem, and chat with a mysterious Malaysian Euroasian on his flight over to Singapore...
Feng Xiao-gang is a vulgarian, and Zhang Yi-mou has turned himself into a post-modern interior designer who talks shop on screen...
Wait until you see my other donkey avatars. This is just the beginning  |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Nov 15, 2004 - 12:39 PM |
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Wang jia wei is a director who is goot at creating atmosphere,old shanghai,cambodia(i will try to find same atomsphere there next Feb.maybe will hide a secret in a hole,hehe.)
may i ask what will u go to Shanxi province for?to rediscover the city in Jia zhangke's movies?mmm...sounds interesting. i like north west cities,slow lives,people seems not to pay a lot attention on money(not like shanghainese)i went to Xian this Augest,i really feel curious about their peaceful lives,easily be satisfied.though no further target of life,but very actural.thinking of Xiao wu in Jia's film,i'm sure shanghai girl wont like him,hehe. |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
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Nov 16, 2004 - 04:57 PM |
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Xi'an is great. I like it for its position in history, esp. as the starting point of the Silk Road. I also like it for the ethnic mix, where one can walk on the street towards the Old Mosque, rubbing shoulders with Hui people in white hats on the way, and constantly tempted to stop by the smell of toasted cumin from the little lamb-kabob stands run by Uigurs.
If only someone can present this fascinating city on the screen, like Wang Kar-Wai did with HK, and film directors in 1390s with Shanghai. The only thing I can recall is "Story of Qiuju", with some twenty minutes of the street scene in Xi'an. Hardly did the city justice, though.
Have you ever been to Xiamen? That's a peaceful town with slow life for you. The sea is beautiful, too. I don't think any good film will ever be made there, for the same reason that no good film ever comes out of Florence. Too...white-collar...
I ran into a film director called Li Xiang'yan in a media store off Fuzhou Rd., last Sunday (after my Beijing Opera session---you should give it a try some time). He told me that he studied in Italy, along with Ning Ying (woman director of "A Warm Summer Day" and "Looking for Fun", a.k.a. "Zhao Le"). He asked me if I do films for a living when he overheard me asking the sales clerk for some hardcore arthouse productions by China. I said not. Then he seemed to be relieved  and quickly started giving me his vision of the direction that Chinese film industry should take. More than an hour, hardly allowing me to get a word in. Bit of a bore, really. And he did not seem to know a lot about European cinema, as you may expect from someone writing scripts for a living. I think the Italian arts foundations may have been too easy on his lazy a$$ . I pasted a friendly and somewhat ironic smile on my face and went through with it .
Isn't that an experience hard to beat?! |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
Status: Offline
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Nov 21, 2004 - 08:26 PM |
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i hear of Li xiang yang(or xiang yan?),am curious about where his media store.close to where?
last night ,i saw a drama "the golden cangue",a tragic life of Cao qiqiao ,who falls victim to the patriarchal familial system in the early 20th century and consciously exploits it to destroy others' lives.the story is written by Zhang ailing(Eileen chang,she also translated "the flower of shanghai" from Suzhounese(?) to mandarin.)the atmosphere of old shanghai(1930s) impress me deeply.
by the way,i got 2 Iran movies again,both from Abbas,"where is the friend's home"and "the wind will carry us". |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
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Nov 24, 2004 - 05:11 PM |
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^ No, it's not his media store. He was just shopping there.
Are you sure the correct translation for the title by Eileen Chang is "cangue"? "Cangue" is a penal instrument, you know. While Ms. Chang mau have intended to be interpreted that way, the original Chinese has a double meaning ("suo" also as a sort of jewelry) that "cangue" just does not capture. I've seen it translated as simply "lock", which keeps the dual meaning of "suo".
Yes, I've read all novels by Chang. She has been "re-discovered" and become fashionable again in recent years both in China and in US. But I am not sure if she may be appreciated for the wrong reason. Very few Chinese readers seem to recognize her fine eye for physical details and her gusto for small pleasures in life. In this sense, Chang belongs to that rare species called "Chinese humanists" (other notable humanists include Lu Xun and his brother, Chou Tsuo-ren).
The atmosphere, as you mentioned, seemed to be the factor that won Chang new fans. But other lesser writers do just as good a job, don't you think? Say, Su Qing, Ting Ling, Ling Shu Hua, to name a few. To admire Chang for atmosphere is, to me, like "buy the jewelry box and return the pearls" (BTW: do you know what that idiom is in Chinese? ).
Is the dramatization any good? I went to the Theatre Center only once, for "Othello" by "Cheek by Jowl". |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
Status: Offline
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Nov 24, 2004 - 08:12 PM |
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i'm sure the correct translation "cangue",i know it means a penal instrument.the "cangue" is a punishment to Cao qi qiao's family and the society.so it has some symbolic meanings.
so surprised that you've seen all Chang's novels.i thought her novels were more welcomed by female readers. but niko,as a female,has just seen some her stories. i dont know how is english version.i noticed a funny subtitle displayed in the theatre.(there is a screen with englsih subtitle when seeing the drama)when Jize told Qi qiao that he would say hello to his mother(his original word is "xiang mu qin qing an","mu qin" means "mother","qing an" is a very serious way to say hello to old people,just used in palace and old China),the subtitle displayed"good morning,mother",hehe,just like a very fashion dude.
it's still an excelletn drama,though.there will be some dramas in the Theatre center,like a physical theatre"dog's face",20001 Pulitzer prize winner"proof"....
by the way,i know the idiom u mentioned,it is called "买椟还珠"(mai du huan zhu) |
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Wasabichez
PopStar
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 1225
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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Nov 25, 2004 - 04:51 PM |
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Ur has this become more of a movie critic posting vs the original topic? |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Nov 26, 2004 - 12:54 PM |
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^ 906 posts at the forum later, you are still surprised??? |
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peasant
Reacher
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 323
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Nov 26, 2004 - 10:44 PM |
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| serend wrote: |
| In fact, I am fascinated by almost all the countries along the Silk Road. Too bad that I cannot find any interesting book about them in either English or Chinese or German. I heard there're a lot of research done by Japanese historians; maybe that's the next language I'll have to pick up... |
I enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks to Serend, Niko and others for a good reading.
There is a book on the cultures along the Silk Road you might be interested. It was written by Toru Haneda (羽田亨) a few decades ago. The late professor Haneda wrote extensively on history along the Silk Road and Kyoto University dedicated the Center for Eurasian Studies to him for his contributions in the field. The book "西域文化史" (the Culture History of the Western Regions) was translated into Chinese in early 1980s. They published 3,000 copies by Xinjiang People’s Publishing House and sold at 0.42 Yuan per copy. I have a copy of it in Pdf format and I can send a copy to anyone who is interested.
It’s not a fat book, just a concise summery of the development and interactions of the cultures along the Silk Road. The total page is 94 and they used a big font characters in the book. It won’t take too much of your time reading it.
Then the other book on the topic from non-Chinese writers is “the Empire of the Steppes-a History of Central Asia” by French historian Rene Grousset. It was translated into English, and recently, to Chinese. There are two different versions of the Chinese translations. Both had some accuracy problems. They are available in the bookstores now and the Chinese title is “草原帝国”. I have an e-copy of it too if anyone wants to read it without wanting to buy it.
This book is long. The English copy has 687 pages. Though it’s more about fights and conquests, it did spend time to talk about the cultural aspect of each period through two thousands of years history. |
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Benoist_Shanghai
Low Seater
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 3057
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Nov 27, 2004 - 12:42 AM |
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Always impressed by your resourceful posts peasant.
I would have enthusiastically asked for a copy of your "西域文化史", but I fear that contrary to what you said, it would take me a bit of time to read it
Thx anyway
b. |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Nov 27, 2004 - 11:53 AM |
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^ But I thought it's a jiffy to go from French to Chinese, yeah?
Doesn't bode well for my French learning...  |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Nov 27, 2004 - 12:04 PM |
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Progress report: finally found Altman's "Short Cuts", in Criterion Collection! And Scorsese's "A Trip to Italy". And tons of obscure opera DVDs, incl. Kurt Weil's "Street Scenes". And "Seinfeld"! I am in heaven! |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Dec 12, 2004 - 07:33 PM |
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serend,i saw a new movie of Rohmer today---"triple agent" .i'm surprised that it looks like a political film.a complex man with different identities,so i felt a bit confused about it,bcs i dont know much about the background of the war and the relationship between Russia(right wing and left wing) and Germany,i will review the film when i get more infomation about the history.
but i feel Rohmer didnt focus on the war itself,acturally(i think),he is telling a story about trust,love,rights...between man and woman.the man in the film is an agent,he has to keep secrets and tell lies to people,including his wife,so that his wife doesnt know what is real words,the ending is his wife is put into a jail bcs her husband betrayed a group,she is innocent ,but her husband has run away.an ironic ending.
selfish is a nature of human beings. |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Dec 13, 2004 - 04:52 PM |
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Peasant, I'm quite into history stuff, although being busy with work I would try to squeenze some time to read. Would love to have the pdf copy. Sent you a pm of my email.
Thanks to Serend and Niko, your guys enriched this thread so much that it didn't turn to the usual DVD purchase tips.
k, movies recently watched and worthy mentioning:
1. coffee and cigarettes:
Two of importance in my life.
The movie was gathered by different pieces of scenes showing people meet at coffee shop, smoking and drinking.
2. 21 Grams
Have been hearing this film for a long long time. finally settle down and watch it. Multiple plot lines cross three people's life. Loved the last line: 21 Grams is the weight we lose when we die, the weight carried by those who survive. 21 Grams: the gravity of life.
I need to hunt for Amores Perros though. Heard it's even better than 21 Grams.
3. Fear and Loathing in Las vegas
Biography of writer Hunter S. Thomson.
Johnney Depp(sp?) impressed me, a typical drug user and half bald. This is probably his best act in additional to Once Upon A Time in Mexico. The movie goes on in narration and all the craziness of two drug users.
The last scene is my favourite, Raoul Duke typing his story, the camera draws away and looks like he is going deep down to a tunnel, as he narrates:a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody...or at least some force -- is tending the light at the end of the tunnel. |
_________________
Ah, the ubiquitous idiots... |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
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Dec 13, 2004 - 09:20 PM |
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i've seen a part of "21Grams",but havent finished it.i felt a bit confused about the beginning.it almost stopped me from going it on.i saw a similar story last year "13conversations about one thing" by Jill sprecher,they all discuss the value of life.warmly recommend it to you.
how about "coffee and cigarettes"?it's a collection of some black and white short films,right?i was going to buy the dvd yesterday,but i'm not sure if i will like black&white film,so...is it good?LF?
what movies i've seen lately are "why not" by Shohei imamura,"mean street"by Martin scorsese,"triple agent" by Rohmer,"29 palms" by Bruno dumont.... |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Dec 14, 2004 - 11:03 AM |
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I have seen a few Jarmusch movies, incl. "Night on Earth", "Ghost Dog", "Mystery Train", "Down by Law", and "Stranger than Paradise". The last three are my favorites. The other two are seriously flawed, yet even in those, there are moments. I bought "Coffee and Cigarretts" but haven't got around to watch it yet. Honestly my recent film-watching record has not been great: only AVG 2 films/week. Shame on me.
Jarmusch is at his best providing snapshots into lives of ordinary people thrown into odd circumstances. These folks are never noble, but Jarmusch's sympathetic eye for humanity in mundane physical reality always makes them curiously admirable in some strange way. I often find I like some bizarre character in J.'s movies, for no reason at all! I think Jarmusch is one of the few very "warm" film-makers currently working.
While we are on that subject, I'll embark on my tireless marketing of classical Japanese film-makers again: Ozu, Mizoguchi and Maruse. Never miss anything by these three. Such warmth and empathy. Always make me a better person for a few days afterwards. |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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Dec 14, 2004 - 11:30 AM |
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Sorry: not a big fan of "Fear and Loathing in Las vegas". The visual is quite inventive, though; reminding me of "Naked Lunch".
The visual was based on Ralph Steadman's drawings. I get to know and love Steadman's works from the labels of my favorite Californian vineyard, Bonny Doon. He made these quirky and mildly disturbing drawings for Bonny Doon's red wines, such as "Heart of Darkness" Madiran, "Joker" Sirrah, etc.. |
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serend
FooJay
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 1712
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Dec 14, 2004 - 01:15 PM |
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| niko wrote: |
serend,i saw a new movie of Rohmer today---"triple agent"
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First things first, niko: where did you get the DVD??? Urgent!
Didn't realize Rohmer ever made a movie NOT about bourgeoisie and faux-intellectuals.
I got Rohmer's "Pauline on the Beach" recently.
| niko wrote: |
......the background of the war and the relationship between Russia(right wing and left wing) and Germany,i will review the film when i get more infomation about the history.
but i feel Rohmer didnt focus on the war itself,acturally(i think),he is telling a story about trust,love,rights...between man and woman......
selfish is a nature of human beings. |
Sounds like one of the hot subjects for European film-makers in 1970s. You have the Hungarian "Red and White", and Volker Schlöndorff's "Der Fangschuß". They are all about post-October-Revolution Russia, the struggles between the White and the Red. Schlöndorff's is particularly poignant: love, and sexuality itself, thrown into turmoil by the Revolution; the changing lnadscape of lust, romance, disappointment and betrayal. The film is better known by its French title, "Coup de Grace".
I feel sorry for you, niko, to sit through another film by Dumont . How was it? |
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