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carrol
PopStar
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 1122
Location: East of Eden
Status: Offline
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  Posted:
Jan 07, 2005 - 11:56 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Sympathy / Empathy |
From what I've seen / read .. Chinese people seem to lack these two qualities. Any ideas as to why that should be so? |
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Carrol |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Jan 07, 2005 - 01:50 PM |
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Not sure I agree. They do have sympathy, a bit like crocodiles shed tears.
Empathy, on the other hand, is conspicuous by its absence. Not just empathy with other people, but for animals, the environment, and machines (how many times have you winced at the way people here treat their cars?).
Whether it is cultural (maybe, not convinced), or a side effect of the way the language stuctures their thoughts (who knows), or a rogue gene (maybe) or something else, I don't know. But it is a serious lack in an animal like homo sapiens. |
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Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 11:02 AM |
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exactly what HAVE you seen?....or read?...or are you having a "bad China day" maybe?...long time you sissy expats had not posted anything like that..."Chinese people...."...what the fvvvck do you really know about Chinese people to say something like that?...how many of them do you actually know?...goddamn waste of a ticket plane to China...that's what you are... |
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MahamYe
Rocker
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 614
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 11:46 AM |
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In my opinion, the same can be said for any nationality when you are on the outside looking in...especially with the seemingly impenetrable language barrier. At the risk of making a broad overly-sweeping meaningless generalization, once you make a true friend with a Chinese you have a empathetic/sympathetic friend for life. |
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pen_is_lord
Newbie
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 12:28 PM |
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Even my experience in shanghai for last one year seems to indicate on the same fact as raised by Carrol.
In sub-ways/buses, i've seldom found young people vacating their seats for the aged or the pregnant women. Well in most cases i have to come orward. In one instance an aged Chinese Women even started cursing her own countrymen for not showing such basic courtesy.
I guess its in Chinese Culture. |
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pickle005
Barker
Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Posts: 158
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 01:00 PM |
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ever been on a subway train in NYC? but i'd never generalize that particular experience and say that all americans are rude and inconsiderate(despite common perception to the contrary). in fact, i'd say that most of my fellow americans are wonderfully courteous and thoughtful ppl.
the point here is to avoid making sweeping generalization and making blanket statement such as "the chinese is so..." afterall there are 1.4 billion of them. |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 01:34 PM |
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It was 'bout time some people started making statements that I have been making for some time now...the number of open minded expat is rising, which is a great sign...
It's getting so old and lame to start a sentense with: "The Chinese are..." "It's in their Culture to..."...truth is, most people making these statements have no fvvvcking idea what culture is to begin with...they narrow it down to "bad experiences" they have in a city of 16 million souls...wake up and smell the hot and sour soup sissies... |
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Paulo
Rocker
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 615
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 02:18 PM |
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I agree merdy, when the rural revolution arrives, the criminal capitalists will be the second to be pitchforked in the ribs.
These septic tanks who complain about culture, psychology, and other dynamics are the same ones who don't speak Chinese, don't eat Chinese food, don't have any Chinese friends, and more horribly, hang around with The Pudong Crowd eating from Set Lunch Business Menus. |
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Dave Hedgehog, Richie Rich, Eddie Hitler, Spudgun |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Jan 11, 2005 - 02:25 PM |
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I like you, Paulo. |
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Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 04:53 PM |
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I am not sure if you were being sarcastic or not paulo...but if not...you are right...except for the Chinese food bit...the "sceptic tank" usually goes to hot pot once a week and calls is "Chinese culture"... |
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Henry_Chinaski
Board Lord
Joined: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 5025
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Jan 11, 2005 - 05:23 PM |
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Hahaha. Good discussion.
In my opinion it boils to this: if you are only able to acknowledge the bad things, only bad things will happen to you, as these would be the experiences your radar will be able to capture. If you give a chance for the good shiat to happen, so it will.
In general the average expat-bubble-dweller doesnt have a mere idea of what the average chinese people are, except for the few moments they spend with them in elevators and taxis.
But simple people need simplifications to make the complexity of life acceptable. And we can include a huge percentage of the expat population in this category: simple people that cannot survive a single week in china without complaining about something and buying their shiat in Carrefour. Sad motherfukers, missing the chance of learning something new.
Chinaski out. |
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fukuman
Wonder Wit
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 3699
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2005 - 06:54 PM |
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"In general the average expat-bubble-dweller doesnt have a mere idea of what the average chinese people are, except for the few moments they spend with them in elevators and taxis."
dont u live in Xujiahui and work in Huaihai lu?
Maybe their indifference to others is because they dont see em comin, what with them all having slanty eyes and all. ................ |
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Henry_Chinaski
Board Lord
Joined: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 5025
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Jan 11, 2005 - 07:24 PM |
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| fukuman wrote: |
dont u live in Xujiahui and work in Huaihai lu? |
Hahaha Simpleton. Good one.
For Mr. Simpleton here everybody rich is evil, everybody lives in Xjh and everybody works in hhlu.
Illusion due to exclusion.... |
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Paulo
Rocker
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 615
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2005 - 04:35 PM |
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I am not being sarcastic Merdy. On moment Carrol is searching for a bible group and for the next half hour, she makes comments, like the Chinese do not feel.
Take a break from the bible group, Caroll, and hopefully, break the tabernacle, the pulpit, the colourful stained glass windows and any other glassware that blurs and whitewashes the real meaning of the Pentateuch, also called the Torah, the name of the first five books of the Old Testament. It is a record of what God says about himself, what the narrator says about God and his people, Chinese and blacks included, I presume... |
Last edited by Paulo on Jan 12, 2005 - 05:00 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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Paulo
Rocker
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 615
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2005 - 04:35 PM |
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I am not being sarcastic Merdy. On moment Carrol is searching for a bible group and for the next half hour, she makes comments, like the Chinese do not feel.
Take a break from the bible group, Caroll, and hopefully, break the tabernacle, the pulpit, the colourful stained glass windows and any other glassware that blurs and whitewashes the real meaning of the Pentateuch, also called the Torah, the name of the first five books of the Old Testament. It is a record of what God says about himself, what the narrator says about God and his people, Chinese and blacks included, I presume... |
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Dave Hedgehog, Richie Rich, Eddie Hitler, Spudgun |
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Rio
Post Boaster
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 4724
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Jan 12, 2005 - 04:47 PM |
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The point HC makes is clear and correct in my opinion. You cannot judge people based on a couple of impressions, let alone judge a whole nation of people, in this case, Chinese people.
It's all about norms and values, its about respect for the elderly and I do think Chinese people have that, but the thing about Chinese people is also that they tend to be self-focused especially in this fast moving environment, some people try to survive first before helping others.
It's what you choose for, I choose to help. |
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pen_is_lord
Newbie
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2005 - 04:52 PM |
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sraplug
Squeeker
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Posts: 12
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 10:43 AM |
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hmmm.... guys i have been living in China for 30 years and i feel the same way as Carrol, even i am Chinese, though i agree that this does not apply to each and every single Chinese but sad to say it does apply to most. I don't understand why, some people say that it's because they are too caught up in their own lives and problems that there is simply no room for empathy or sympathy towards others, other's say " if i were to be sympathetic towards someone then who is going to sympathetic towards me and my predicament? " . I have no idea maybe someone can help me elaborate on this.  |
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sraplug
Squeeker
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Posts: 12
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 10:44 AM |
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hmmm.... guys i have been living in China for 30 years and i feel the same way as Carrol, even i am Chinese, though i agree that this does not apply to each and every single Chinese but sad to say it does apply to most. I don't understand why, some people say that it's because they are too caught up in their own lives and problems that there is simply no room for empathy or sympathy towards others, other's say " if i were to be sympathetic towards someone then who is going to sympathetic towards me and my predicament? " . I have no idea maybe someone can help me elaborate on this. |
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carrol
PopStar
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 1122
Location: East of Eden
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 11:37 AM |
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Not all of us are in Shanghai because we want to be, or because our parents chose to send us as far away from home as possible.
Maybe we'd even prefer to be back home, where the pattern of our life fits perfectly into the jigsaw puzzle into which we were born, but .. that doesn't stop us doing our best to adjust to, and even enjoy, the Shanghai experience!.
So - we make friends with the locals, we try to learn the language, we drink oolong tea, and savor the cuisine, we take in the sights .. we donate to charities and do some volunteer work .. and yes, we ask questions and point out unfamiliar things that come to our attention. This expat website seems to be the perfect place for gathering relevant information, and sharing our experiences with others. Surely, that is its purpose? Why then are there always a few who seem to 'stalk' the threads, making deprecating, and often, personal comments? Are they expats themselves, or simply lonely, sad people with a massive chip on the shoulder? I'd like to understand, so please enlighten me.
Live and let live .. and unto each his own. Pick off the meat, and spit out the bones, but let's maintain a little dignity whilst doing so! |
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Carrol |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 12:54 PM |
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Oh my god...that's one pretty pathetic attempt to justify your initial comment on this thread....
So it is clear that you have not chosen to be here. No doubt about that. Probably the only thing you are really honest about. And maybe it would have been a great service to you if your parents had actually sent you in a far away place when you were a little younger.
As for the herculian effort you are making to adjust here...I have to say I am impressed. So you drink the tea and eat the food therefore you are "adjusting"...don't kill yourself trying huh...So who exactly did you ask to come up with such a nice and clear cut conclusion that "Chinese people seem to lack sympathy and empathy"...?...And honestly, how many Chinese people do you count as your friends? As opposed to, say, expats?...Would it not be more adequate to say that you are recreating, or attempting to recreate the life you had in the West over here? Would it be false to say that, at least so far, you know nothing about this place except your favorite Carrefour supermarket and maybe a couple of bars where all your expat friends hang out?...Maybe I am way off...who knows?... But somebody who is truly trying to adjust to a new country and new culture would never make such a general blind statement...
No chip on this shoulder...but simply a counter balance for the stupidity and superiority complex of a lot of expats here... |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Jan 14, 2005 - 01:00 PM |
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Carol, there are selfish, cold-hearted Chinese just like everywhere else. I think people came to flame you because your post started from a sweeping conclusion instead of putting it in a discussible form.
I for one, found it's difficult to answer your question. why some Chinese lack of sympathy/empathy, me thinks it's more related to individual rather than to the race. Maybe they had bad experience before or maybe they are just born like that, or could be feeble minds affected by cold-hearted others. |
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Ah, the ubiquitous idiots... |
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carrol
PopStar
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 1122
Location: East of Eden
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 01:03 PM |
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Bravo Merdy .. like a fish to the bait ... now where's your twin brother, standing in line to be next .... ? |
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Carrol
Last edited by carrol on Jan 14, 2005 - 01:10 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 01:07 PM |
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yea...and that also is a nice way not to actually answer the questions isn't it?... |
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carrol
PopStar
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 1122
Location: East of Eden
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 01:09 PM |
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littlefox .. I do not (and did not) mean to imply the the locals are 'cold-hearted' or 'selfish' .. I'm sure they can be very warm and generous .. all I was saying, is that (based on things I've seen and read) that they SEEM to LACK (or not SHOW) sympathy / empathy. I'm sure there are reasons for this .. and I was simply trying to understand why. |
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Carrol |
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