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jsnlam
Squeeker
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 18
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 05:44 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Is that chinese culture? |
im an ABC working as an english teacher in shanghai.today, i got a call from my school. its from the assistant of my boss. And i was told that one of my classes is cancelled. not temporary but forever. I feel pissed. I mean i dont care if she cancel the class or not. But at least she should talk with me first and let me know first . rather then ask some bloody assistant call me and told me the stupid news in a pretty cold way. Doesnt she know theres a thing in the world called Respect?! Its understandable if shes lackin of money to maintain the school, but as a teacher of that class, Am I the one who should know the news in the first place? Is that a part of Chinese Culture?! |
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CheekyMonkiez
Talker
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Posts: 106
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 06:18 PM |
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Be glad you even got a call!!! |
_________________
Please do not make judgments of my character based on my scribblings above. Instead, I ask that you make judgments only after first taking a deep look into my two hearts. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 14, 2005 - 06:40 PM |
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Why make this a racial question? To the question "what is wrong with your boss?" I would also add "what is wrong with you?". Maybe you should also drop the C in your ABC. I used to work for a large Scandinavian company, in France, that became famous for having HR firing employees when they arrive at work in the morning and arrange taxi service to send them home. Where is respect? Is that CHINESE culture too? The fact is that some bosses are afraid to give the bad news themselves. It is hard to fire people (it is even worse to get fired, I know). Many people all over the world also lack of respect and good manners and principles... Is that all because of Chinese culture corrupting the world via globalization? Finally my experience is that overseas Chinese in general are more behavior and attitude problems than mainlanders. Is that Chinese culture. I understand you are upset, but cut the racial crap and get on with your life. |
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That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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jsnlam
Squeeker
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 18
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 07:06 PM |
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But China is a country which wins its reputation from its good manner and ppl's good personality, isnt it? wat im trying to say is i found that ppl r now getting less and less attention to its tradition. a culture which tells them wat is good and wat is bad. plus, im not gettin fired, i still have some other classes. and since her behavior made me feel confused of if ppl r getting less and less attetion to respect others. so i made a quiestion here to discuss if we r losting of our good manners.at least i feel i did nothin wrong. so i guess thers nothing to do with "shame on me "stuff. and its not a issue about RACIAL at all! i feel proud to be a chinese! and when my point of view have conflict with other chinese, so I made a question to know if its still our tradition. cos i have some other friends who once had the same experience. so i'll say that again that pls try to understand its nothing to do with racial at all. |
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amega
Barker
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 199
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Jan 14, 2005 - 08:09 PM |
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Hi, don’t be upset about that. It has nothing to do you're a banana or an egg or the real thing. It has nothing to do with culture either. It's China at cross road, just opened up to the outside world, a lot to learn, a lot to adjust. It happened to me too. I've prepared all the material for a seminar, but it got cancelled at the last minute. Afterwards I realized, there is a complicated bureaucratic system here. Unless it's been approved all the way, it could be cancelled at any time. Hahaha...if it's in US or in Canada, I probably got a legal case to argue about. But it's China ... why bother. Get on with your life and be glad you can leave if you're not happy. After all there are many good things here. People are friendly, the foods are great! It’s so much better than when I left forty years ago. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 14, 2005 - 09:08 PM |
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ok noted, jsnlam. I think most countries, not just China, have some kind of tradition thats tells them what is good or bad manners. (Frankly good manners are more often overlooked in China, but mainly due to development issues) What you describe would be considered bad manner anywhere in the world, in China too. However I think your problem could happen anywhere in the world. Ok, we better enjoy our weekend instead of playing around in this forum. Have a good one! |
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That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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niko
Rocker
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 602
Status: Offline
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Jan 14, 2005 - 11:23 PM |
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then,jsnlam,what did you expect your boss to do ?to treat you a big meal or give you an envelope which is full of money?no no,it's China,we're not lack of people,we're not lack of teachers.that's the point.so, i understand your boss.
good luck. |
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carrol
PopStar
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 1122
Location: East of Eden
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2005 - 04:17 PM |
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Hi jsnlam. Why don't you try teaching a different subject, maybe even move to a different school, if you're that unhappy? There seems to be quite a demand for teachers in China, generally. Sorry you had such a bad experience, but don't make that your permanent address .. just move on .. |
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Carrol |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 17, 2005 - 09:25 AM |
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quick question jsnl...do you make mistakes in your posts on purpose?...from what you have written so far, I for one would never hire you to teach English...no offence. |
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ROiD_RaGe!
Seeker
Joined: Apr 05, 2004
Posts: 53
Location: University of Michigan - USA
Status: Offline
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Jan 17, 2005 - 09:45 AM |
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Look to the 5,000 employees at PeopleSoft who got the pink slip by email, on the WEEKEND |
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University of Michigan - www.umich.edu |
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YariGuy
LoopKicker
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 874
Location: Puxi
Status: Offline
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Jan 30, 2005 - 04:48 PM |
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| merdy wrote: |
| quick question jsnl...do you make mistakes in your posts on purpose?...from what you have written so far, I for one would never hire you to teach English...no offence. |
Exactly. Spelling errors and use of i for I, u for you, etc. aside:
| Quote: |
| so i made a quiestion here to discuss if we r losting of our good manners. |
| Quote: |
| when my point of view have conflict with other chinese, so I made a question |
| Quote: |
| its nothing to do with racial at all. |
etc. etc.
I think you're fortunate to have a job, especially teaching English. |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Jan 30, 2005 - 05:53 PM |
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| jsnlam wrote: |
| But China is a country which wins its reputation from its good manner and ppl's good personality, isnt it? |
Oh sorry! You must have been mistaken! Reputation for good manners????? I think you must be talking about The Republic of China, Taiwan. |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Jan 30, 2005 - 06:20 PM |
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Guess it was meant ironically  The PRC would be the last place on this planet that would pop up when you're talking about good manners or any social skills. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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hawkeyes
Newbie
Joined: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Pudong
Status: Offline
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Jan 30, 2005 - 08:29 PM |
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My recent encounter with the younger Chinese generation , mostly Uni. graduates) makes me believe that the manners or social skills is improving, at least in the new generation. |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Jan 30, 2005 - 10:27 PM |
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I definitely agree with you on that. I am observing the same, and it makes me feel optimistic. I specially see the change in the younger people that had a chance to get some exposure abroad. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Jan 31, 2005 - 07:13 AM |
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True. At this rate, I would expect someone to hold an elevator or say 'please' in just 5,000 more years. |
_________________
Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 09:25 AM |
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And thank God you will not be here to see it you fat asssss punk... |
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itaye
Reacher
Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 265
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 09:59 AM |
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I think this its exactly a matter of culture and its something that I don't like in the Chinese culture.
And it has nothing to do with racism, Frenchlover1999.
If my boss decides to change something that affect my work, he has probably good reasons, but I expect he to discuss it with me before to change, at least because I can have information that he doesn't have.
I do the same with the people in my team because THIS IS RESPECT (not to say "yes but" instead of "no, that is actually a communication lack) and this is a professional behavior.
I think that to discuss every relevant change with the team is a very powerful decision tool (brainstorming) and a real force of the American style management (that for me is the better style); of course, the last word is the one of the boss.
But in the Chinese way the boss "must be the boss", he has to decide and let the people know his decision, even through the assistant, because to discuss the change with his subordinate can be considered a manifestation of weakness.
I met several western managers working in China and most of them believe that communication is what many Chinese managers, even young and with MBA, need to improve.
So Jsnlam I think that there is actually nothing wrong with you, we just have to accept this negative aspect of this Country that gives us a lot of good reasons to live here. |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 10:13 AM |
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Yes, itaye is correct. The reason many of us are working here is that the local management, the well-educated part of Chinese society, is still useless. However, there is also another side to this story.
One of the local managers' favourite pastimes is screwing foreign companies. Specifically, they collude with contractors to increase prices for work on the understanding that they will get a kickback. Effectively stealing money from their employer. Many Chinese salespeople involved in business-to-business markets are also corrupt. They collude with their customers to give them a discount, on the understanding that they will get a commission from the customer as a reward. Therefore, many companies will have expats here to keep an eye on things. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Jan 31, 2005 - 10:40 AM |
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What an hilarious bunch of crap, especially the part about American management style. I suggest you edit your post and add quotes from Michael E. Porter and L. Ron Hubbard, to make it perfect. |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 10:41 AM |
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yea...the US can give lessons in work ethics huh?...let's see...Enron? Tyco? Worldcom? Fanny Mae? yea...the west knows best...when they **** up...they reeeeeeaaallly **** up though huh?...put thousands of people out of jobs...and ruin the life savings of tens of thousands of people...you are one funny piece of shiiiiit good4dicks...maybe they should offer the death penalty for financial fraud in the US...then maybe the punk assss HBS groomed sissies will piss themselves and behave...the West in general, and the US in particular have no lessons to give to anyone on business ethics... |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 11:07 AM |
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Merdy:
Let me try to profile you....
You are an English teacher here in his early 20's and never had a real job anywhere, let alone in China. As you can only speak English, your sources of information are CNN, CCTV9, the China Daily and Shanghai Daily, and all those free magazines you pick up when you are hanging out at Xintiandi. You also can use the internet whenever you are not teaching to access those websites that are not blocked by the regime.
Your friends are other young people such as yourself that possess the same wealth of experience and language ability you yourself have acquired and of late displayed in these forums. The only Chinese people you work with are those children that you teach English to as well as the assistant teachers that help you in class because you cannot speak Mandarin.
You are therefore, obviously, very well informed about what's going on in this country and in a position to overule the judgements of others better informed than you. Others that have for years dealt with government, with customers, suppliers, employees, etc., and as a result have an insight you might one day yourself acquire, if you ever get a real job here.
Finally, corruption is indeed everywhere but where China stands out, is that it happens on a large scale, in almost every company. The yanks don't have a perfect system but their corporate governance is far better than anything in China. Here, the corruption is not only at corporate level, it is also rampant at the operational level. Again Merdy, you are exhibiting your shallow understanding of this country. Anybody with any significant experience in manufacturing operations here will know what I am talking about. |
Last edited by good4kicks on Jan 31, 2005 - 11:20 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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itaye
Reacher
Joined: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 265
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 11:19 AM |
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Well, sometimes I feel that for many Chinese people "loyal" is considered to be synonym of “stupid” and “sincere” is equal to “childlike”  , so I’m not surprised by good4kicks statement, taught this is another argument.
Pls note, merdy, that I have just written that American managers use an effective and (for me) likely style of management to reach their targets. 
I'm not talking about ethic but, for me, cases like Enron or the Italian Parmalat should not be considered the effect of a culture or a particular style of management, but just the the action of one or more persons.  |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Jan 31, 2005 - 12:46 PM |
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| good4sh1t wrote: |
Merdy:
Let me try to profile you... |
Brilliant. What a tactful reply to avoid the questions and cover the flaws of the previous bullsh*t.
| good4sh1t wrote: |
| Therefore, many companies will have expats here to keep an eye on things. |
HAHAHAHA! lmao! Classic, you sure make a full exhibition of yourself here.
Alright, let's see, this post was started by someone who got fired in an inappropriate way. If you want to make a extensive topic regarding how corruption is rampant here, how Chinese corruption differs from western countries, start another thread, would you? |
_________________
Ah, the ubiquitous idiots...
Last edited by littlefox on Jan 31, 2005 - 12:52 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Jan 31, 2005 - 12:51 PM |
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oohhhh! looks like I upset another young English teacher. sorry about that. I will be more careful in future. |
Last edited by good4kicks on Jan 31, 2005 - 01:40 PM; edited 3 times in total |
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