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trip
Barker
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Closer
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 09:01 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Are real cross-cultural exchanges possible??????? |
I am about to move to Shanghai as an expat. I have been an expat for a while, living in 3 different countries. One of the most enjoyable experiences for me has been learning the language, culture and ideologies of the local people. I find it interesting and expanding, even if I do not agree with it.
I found this site and I have been reading through some of the more discussed threads and it appears that there is a split culture in Shanghai. The expats live and mix with expats and the locals live and mix with locals. The two cultures seem isolated and create animosity between.
Look, I have spent only on week in Shanghai and I am hoping that what I am seeing on the threads is not true. Some of you have been there for a long time, should I be ignoring what I am seeing?
Is it possible to have real, lasting and meaningful friendships or is there too much resentment? |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31098
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Feb 08, 2005 - 09:25 AM |
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Ignore what you are seeing ... there are loads of expats who have meaningful friendships with locals and vice versa.
There really isn't much resentment here ... things just get a bit vicious on the site every now and again. Possibly a way of stiring the pot, releasing tension, etc. Not for everyone, of course, but for some.
Some expats do live in expat compounds and surround themselves with other expats. That's their perrogative. Others intertwine themselves with the local culture. Others maintain friends from both spheres. There are no steadfast rules or underlying expectations. Just do what you want while here.
Some of my oldest friends are locals who I have known for years. Some of my dearest friends are expats who I have met recently. Like anywhere, it's the people, not the circumstances that matter.
You don't haev anything to worry about ... pack you bags and get ready for a wonderful experience! |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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trip
Barker
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Closer
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 09:39 AM |
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Thanks, Magnolia...  |
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aman
Seeker
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 73
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 10:00 AM |
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Chinese people in general welcome all foreigners and expats. It just that a few arseholes expats and parasites that give a bad name to the expat community. In general most white (if not all) are racist towards non-whites but please do not show it when you are in their countries. No Chinese is going to take that lying down. A few whites (like Magnolia and Merdy) are non-racist, other change when they see the world and a lot remain as arseholes and motherfukers. |
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missbei
Squeeker
Joined: Feb 01, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: shanghai
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 10:05 AM |
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hey,
everything depends on you only!
i have friends all over the world and this is what makes me feel good!
i don't get all those people ideas about the chinese .. but it is true that sometimes there is a culture gap!
china is a great coountry if you are really understanding and open-minded!
this is life! life is sweet anywhere! speaking the language is a must!
i am really confused by some threads as well because some of those expats know nothing about china and don't care about it....
how can you judge a country, its people, its culture when you have no
language in common?
cheers
astrid |
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Astrid |
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amega
Barker
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 199
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Feb 08, 2005 - 10:17 AM |
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 Yes, it is ... for sure ... Here is one
"There is a folk saying in the West, that if you dig a hole from New York, you'll come out in Beijing and everything is going to be upside down."
Here is another one:
"In Beijing, they cook vegetables, but in New York they eat raw; in Beijing, they prefer drink hot or warm, in New York ice cold. In Beijing they have hot tea but ice coffee; in New York they have ice tea but hot coffee."
Hahaha... that's a part of fun of being an EXPAT, see the world in different perspective. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31098
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Feb 08, 2005 - 11:02 AM |
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| amega wrote: |
"In Beijing, they cook vegetables, but in New York they eat raw; in Beijing, they prefer drink hot or warm, in New York ice cold. In Beijing they have hot tea but ice coffee; in New York they have ice tea but hot coffee."
Hahaha... that's a part of fun of being an EXPAT, see the world in different perspective.
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nicely stated! |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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carrol
PopStar
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 1122
Location: East of Eden
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 11:47 AM |
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There are people who frequent this website, who, for some unknown reason, love 'people-bashing' and calling others racists, without reason. But there are real guys, and real gals, as well. Never fear, all will be well. Welcome to Shanghai, have yourself a ball! |
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Carrol |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 12:41 PM |
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I agree with carr....you should definately come to Shanghai...no matter what you hear or read...It is an amazing city...very much unique...you will soon find out that to really enjoy yourself here you must:
"EMBRACE THE CHAOS"
If you need any info on Shanghai, let me know. |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Feb 08, 2005 - 01:12 PM |
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Yes, indeed. merde works for the propaganda department. |
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Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Feb 08, 2005 - 01:23 PM |
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I very much agree with Magnolia. The flame-war on this forum have nothing to do with real life anyway. However, I think we have too many foreigners here already, so if you have any doubt I invite you to stay home.
PS Shanghai is not chaotic. Although he indeed works for the propaganda department (he is a trainee there) our friend Merdy is not very well travelled... compared to many large cities in Southeast Asia, Shanghai is rather dull and civilized. |
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That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 01:33 PM |
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Trip-
I agree with Mag's post. You will meet great people from both sides of the coin (expats and locals). The anger vented on this site is mainly from a few loud personalities, egged on by other westerners who just want to release a little tension.
Aman-
Did someone screw you over at some point? What's up with "Most whites are racist..." ? Broad generalizations are not to be trifled with.
Sure we "white people" have a been terrible things in the past, but now I think most of us try to be open-minded about other cultures.
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but it seemed a little out of line for a response to a westerners question about cultural exchanges.
Edgewood-
You are a jerk, but frigging hilarious. This site wouldn't be the same without your pessimism.
Ben |
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MaomingMaster
Board Legend
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 11059
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Feb 08, 2005 - 01:36 PM |
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| Shanghai is rather dull and civilized |
In a way, this is very true!
But Shanghai has it's own kind of chaos....
This place drives me nuts, but one thing I can't say it is is boring or uninteresting. I'd rather be here than England. |
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aman
Seeker
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 73
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 01:46 PM |
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| benkloepfer wrote: |
Aman-
Did someone screw you over at some point? What's up with "Most whites are racist..." ? Broad generalizations are not to be trifled with.
Sure we "white people" have a been terrible things in the past, but now I think most of us try to be open-minded about other cultures.
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but it seemed a little out of line for a response to a westerners question about cultural exchanges. |
No, I haven't been screwed over. I just can't allow white trash coming over and show their so called superiority. Show all the superiorty you want but do it in your great western nation.
That is a fact that most whites are racist - ask any asians, blacks living in a western country (maybe except France)
I think you belong to the 2nd group of racists that has seen the world and is trying to be a non-racist.
In response to the original post I wrote that he/she is most welcome to China - that implies cultural exchanges with the locals as long as he/she is not a racist. What is wrong with that??? |
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merdy
Rocker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 747
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 01:46 PM |
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french...sorry to see that you are fixated on my posts...
let me clarify on the whole "chaos" thing...yes it is true...i have not yet travelled in China much...only the cities around Shanghai...but the comparison was with most north american and european cities...not with chinese cities...can i say that shanghai is more chaotic than most canadian cities...absolutely...even more american cities for that matter...and european cities, well ca va de soit...capice? |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Feb 08, 2005 - 02:03 PM |
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trip- Mags said all.
The flame war on the site doesn't represent real life in Shanghai. I disagree with what aman said "most of white are racist", either. Just because we have a few scum here doesn't mean all expats here think like them.
Some people are frustrated because it's so different from what they have back home. Some people are pissed at the bad part of China, the undeveloped part, spitting, shoving, rudeness, some are happy with the diversity here. I think you really have to feel it on your own. Given that you have been living in other three countries doesn't guarantee your stay in Shanghai will be pleasant. But I hope you could enjoy. and if you have any doubts, you can always post here for help, I believe there are a lot of people on this site willing to give a hand. |
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Ah, the ubiquitous idiots... |
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aman
Seeker
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 73
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 02:16 PM |
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littlefox: I have lived in Australia, England, USA, Japan, Hong Kong. I have visited Europe, New Zealand, Canada, Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Phillipines, Indonesia many times. I know what I am saying when I say most whites are racists. |
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good4kicks
LoopKicker
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 02:52 PM |
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| aman wrote: |
| littlefox: I have lived in Australia, England, USA, Japan, Hong Kong. I have visited Europe, New Zealand, Canada, Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Phillipines, Indonesia many times. I know what I am saying when I say most whites are racists. |
And you Chinese are not racist? Like I have said before, there is nobody as racist as a Chinese. The only difference being, the Chinese pretend they're not. Just like all the Chinese girls here pretend they are virgins and don't have boyfriends. |
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aman
Seeker
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 73
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 02:59 PM |
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good4shitting: the whoores will all say and pretend they are virgins if you want them to - just as long as you pay them enough.
Chinese racist: nah! don't think so. Unless you forgot to pay her and she shouted all that obscenities at you. She is not racist. She just wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole for free! |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Feb 08, 2005 - 04:01 PM |
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| Chinese people in general welcome all foreigners and expats |
Aren't you the same village idiot who said : "China is for Chinese, so you foreigners should all go home"?
T W A T |
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Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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peining
Reacher
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 223
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 04:40 PM |
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trip, i hope you don't get turned off by all the flame throwing that's going on on this site. we're all guilty of having too much time on our hands, myself included.
shanghai probably won't be heaven on earth, if that's what you're expecting, but it certainly makes life interesting. the push and shove behavor is largely due to such a dense population living in meager and harsh refinements... i try not to it personally because it's not directed towards me, but it's really hard not to take things personally... as the posting on this site eludes to. the chinese are really nice people, who are unfortunately often misunderstood. they think differently, and since we are here, we should open our mind and hear what they have to say. sometimes they amaze me.
anyways, i hope you come and join us. i guarantee you'll have a wild adventure, good or bad. but variety is the spice of life, yea? |
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mphbay_sg_syd
Talker
Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Zhong Tan Lu, Zhongtan station
Status: Offline
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Feb 08, 2005 - 04:56 PM |
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Geee... If i were Trip right now... i would run. 
Not encouraging guys.... I guess what most of us forget, is that mass air travel has only been around for 40 years or so. Thus understanding between cultures hasn't been fully developed. People still hear stories from the third-party about other cultures. Thus there is much resentment. I understand why most white people bear a grudge on Asians (don't deny it, been there done that), its cause of the continuing stories that the economy is bad cause of Asia countries. Or Asians are taking our jobs or Asians study too hard. As such when i meet a any white dude i get judged straight away, its not fair... but i deal with it. So message to all White Dudes in China who DO NOT mix around (the few expats), you say Asians in your own country don't mix around.... and look at you now.... tsk tsk tsk.
In Shanghai you are given the opportunity to mix with people from all backgrounds. Use this opportunity wisely... understand cultures and you will not fear anymore. |
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Aussie Aussie Aussie |
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lemongrass
StreetBeater
Joined: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2327
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Feb 09, 2005 - 06:24 PM |
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Trip, just ignore the posts by good4kicks and Edgewood, you should understand people will be groaning and insulting the others when they are pissed off.
They are just as small as the ants on the pavement, so dont give a damn about these bugs.
Yes, I think Mag and the other people have said what I want to say.
You should come here and make the judgement yourself, the flame war here is not for real, just relax, and you will find the real friendship as you wish.
Good luck........ |
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Missing home! |
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edbreejen
Raver
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 432
Location: Shanghai, Zhongshan park area
Status: Offline
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Feb 09, 2005 - 08:58 PM |
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Trip, it's very well possible to mix in Shanghai, although i have to say that some groups of expats do it easier than others, depending on things like:
- ability to speak Chinese
- willingness to put some adventure in daily life
- geographic background
- being married or not when coming to Shanghai
- having kids or not when coming to Shanghai
- educational level
- etc.
The topics are quite explanatory, but a little more on geographic background:
- experience with big cities helps, some things people complain about in the threads here is just part of the big city mindset and more difficult to get accustomed to if your reference is a small village
- North-Americans have in general (i know i'm generalising a lot here, apologies upfront) more difficulty to adapt and mix than Australians and Europeans, often because of language skills, 'community behaviour / ideas on citizenship', housing, sports availability and probably also the religion component.
I've personally lived in several compounds in Changning and Xujiahui where i was the only foreigner and still have good contact with former neighbours.
Besides, in Shanghai my wife (= from Shanghai) have quite a group of friends that consists of about 50% Chinese (local Shanghainese + from other cities), 20-25% European, some Aussies/Kiwis/Canadians/Americans/Brazilians, the rest Asia outside China, except for one lonely African from Gabon. Most of our friends gr Lot of details, but just an example that cross-cultural exchanges can work quite well in Shanghai |
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peining
Reacher
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 223
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Feb 09, 2005 - 09:54 PM |
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| edbreejen wrote: |
| North-Americans have in general (i know i'm generalising a lot here, apologies upfront) more difficulty to adapt and mix than Australians and Europeans, often because of language skills, 'community behaviour / ideas on citizenship', housing, sports availability and probably also the religion component |
i appreciate your insight, Ed.
i have to disagree. i'm not trying to start a flame war, but am curious to know what in your experience has led you to this generalization. could you expound a little? |
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