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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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 Posted:
Feb 27, 2005 - 04:09 PM |
 
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| Post subject: The entire ridiculousness |
Armed with a flamboyantly homosexual wave and a memorable moustache, Adolf Hitler had a plan. If he was Chinese – he’d be on a bank note today.
The subtler points of 1949 to 1976 can be hammered out with an iron bowl, but the reason for the above is one of their corresponding goals – the advancement of a race. This point alone would have found our Adolf nestled into each and every Chinese heart, had he been the one with the Marxist ideas, the large mole on his face, and the teenage prostitutes on demand. If you truly desire, then despite 100 million dead Chinese people, you can indeed find the ‘good’ points in whatever the man in the chair was trying to do. That quick glance back into history would also tell you something, which is what I am vomiting here.
To live in China is to feel the Nazi glare of anti-Japanese sentiment blinding you, making you want to pinch someone’s nipple in frustration. I had assumed that hatred of hypocrisy was hard-wired into all human brains – it appears that hypocrisy is celebrated and adored, defended and bred.
This can be seen in the tiniest grains of life, it can be seen in the Chinese girl who spews daily about how she hates ‘the japanese’, but half of her music collection is Japanese.
It can be read on the internet, in a hundred chat-rooms dedicated to how much the angry youth hates them, and he bashes the keys on his Toshiba computer whilst watching the Japanese cartoon.
This may be the genius of the whole state movement. Keep the youth angry about something, turn their heads east instead of inwards, and wait until you are deep in the ground before anyone looks at you. |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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coastocoast
Newbie
Joined: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
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Feb 27, 2005 - 05:52 PM |
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Politics are all about to manipulate people’s minds, so do religions. We think we are free, we think we control our own ways if thinking and judging, but with the power of media in this modern world, it is doomed we hardly can have a fair view about so many things. And this is not only happing in China. |
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lips turning blue, a kiss that cant renew, I can only dream of you |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Feb 27, 2005 - 06:42 PM |
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True. But this forum says 'Chinese culture discussions'. |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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amega
Barker
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 199
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Feb 27, 2005 - 06:43 PM |
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Coastcoast,
Hahaha... I agree with you 100% + 1 |
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amega
Barker
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 199
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Feb 27, 2005 - 06:46 PM |
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Sorry,
missed a "T"
But what Chinese culture, five thousand years of thinking? There is not enough space here! |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Feb 27, 2005 - 06:50 PM |
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I agree with coastocoast also.
But my point was about China. Don't change the issue. |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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Jorve
Newbie
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Feb 27, 2005 - 08:15 PM |
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The vaunted hypocrisy of which you speak cannot be disputed. In fact, as coasttocoast pointed out, such hypocrisy is not a temporal or cultural anomoly; rather, selective cultural memory (as Noam Chomsky points out) is perhaps one of the few transcultural facets of human nature.
To take your assertion even further, from the founding of Chinese Communist Youth Leagues following the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917 to the present day, discrepancies between Chinese Communist rhetoric and practice are readily identifiable. During this period, were atrocities commited by Chinese people? Most certainly. During this period, were atrocities committed against Chinese people? Again, the answer must be yes.
But to address your point perhaps more clearly, let us look at 1949-76, the period when Mao Zedong remianed Chairman of the CCP and maintained what I will term an ideological monopoly over the Chinese nation. During this time, particularly during the Great Leap Forward (1959-61) and the Cultural Revolution (1966-76), hundreds of thousands (tens of thousands? millions?) of Chinese people died because of the ideological and political machinations of Mao Zedong and the CCP. Such tragic events cannot be excused and should not be ignored; otherwise history is doomed to repeat itself.
At the same time, is it not hypocritical of you to criticize Chinese people for (if I understand you correctly) “unreasonable hatred” directed toward Japanese people without simultaneously condemning Japanese people for the manner in which Japan depicts events that occurred in Nanjing in 1937-38? From my point of view, these two phenomena are dialectic—the attempt to separate one from the other is, in practice, impossible.
Do not misunderstand me. This is not an attempt to validate personality cults or deny the validity of your assertion that perhaps Adolf Hitler might have been held in high esteem had he been born Chinese. On the other hand, could I not simply make the assertion that, “no, he would not have been,” and be equally valid in saying so? One can play at the game of “could have/would have/should have” for days on end without getting at anything concrete.
I promised myself that I would not get too philosophical, but I can’t resist. Large strides must be made in China, as they must be made all over the world, to eliminate the propaganda that the leaders of "interest groups" (governments, corporations, religions) use to maintain the power structures that keep them in control. Is Chinese cultural animosity toward Japan an excellent example of such propaganda? It most certainly is. Are other interest groups using similar methods all over the globe? They most certainly are.
Seeing things this way, I can’t help but feel disillusioned. There is some promise, however, in the reognition of such injustices. This promise comes from the confidence that we breathe a cleaner spiritual air than those who maintain institutions based on intolerance or hatred, and so it is not impossible that, in years (decades) to come, much that we believe in will yet come to be.
That being said, I don’t want to end on too positive a note (to echo Normain Mailer): it is better to remind ourselves that wisdom is ready to reach us from the most unexpected quarters. Follows is a quote from a man who became wise a little too late in life:
“Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist government, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.”
That was Hermann Goering speaking at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II. The benefit of hindsight is great, but looking backwards, gaze fixed on the past with a condemning furrow of the brow, are we not walking backward into the future to repeat our mistakes? |
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coastocoast
Newbie
Joined: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
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Feb 27, 2005 - 08:22 PM |
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heck yeah, nick-la, i hear ya.
The whole anti-japanese sentiment just wont easily go away. Why? I think to some extend, most of the people have a bit patriotic side deeply in heart. When Chinese are educated/told to believe that Japan has been and will continue to be China's biggest threat (media has done a good job on this), the people unconciously start to hate Japan and Japanese. Unless one day government find another target or China becomes strong enough to get over the fears, we will continue to tell ya how twisted Japan and Japanese are, although sometimes it makes no sense. |
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lips turning blue, a kiss that cant renew, I can only dream of you |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Feb 27, 2005 - 08:37 PM |
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Thanks for that coastocoast and jorve, nice to get real replies.
Jorve, 'twas a very good answer, I was going to say I agree but there weren't any firm points in there  , but I do agree with your overal idea.
"without simultaneously condemning Japanese people for the "
Well, I was just looking at one angle. You're very right, you can look at it like that, but however hard you try not to make it seem like an excuse, it is and will always be.
Anyway, good discussion.
We could go around in circles - as in yes Japan do smudge the truth - but then don't china do exactly that? The fact that the chinese gov smudges it to the extent of reversing the truth means that they cannot accuse japan. |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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amega
Barker
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 199
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 Posted:
Feb 27, 2005 - 09:46 PM |
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“
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| Seeing things this way, I can’t help but feel disillusioned. There is some promise, however, in the recognition of such injustices. This promise comes from the confidence that we breathe a cleaner spiritual air than those who maintain institutions based on intolerance or hatred, and so it is not impossible that, in years (decades) to come, much that we believe in will yet come to be.” |
While hoping for a better future for the mankind, I do feel sad about what happened all around us. History does repeat itself. If you look at Chinese history, we do have many similarities in the ups and downs of every dynasty. For centuries, China was looking up to the West for ideas and changes. Communism in itself was a western import. But what fate has brought China and the Chinese people from those learning.
And what the west is entitled to criticize China when they couldn’t put their own house in order. Look at the wars in the Middle East, three religions under the same God, and from the same ancestors fighting in the same city, and the nuke against suicide bombing. Look at your democracy. Your democracy voted Hitler, voted Iraq war, elected Bush with less popular vote in his first election. Your power and money manipulate your media machine. But you want to export your kind of democracy to the every corner of the world, your Hollywood movies, your guns and violence, your sex and your never ending promotion of Viagra and pennies enlargement.
The world is scared, so is China. Being one of the largest and the most populous country, we are the easy target as your imaginary enemy. But we were being considered Hippocratic while we’ve real ones next door. Conquer and divide, you’ve supported every one of the separatist movements within our country. As Putiin of Russia said, it was double standards. Under your standards, you’re always at the “right” end, China the “wrong” end. |
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Jorve
Newbie
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2005 - 10:11 PM |
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not sure that I see where in that I paragraph you quoted I was applying a standard to China that I wasn't applying to others as well. If you want to point out to me where I set up the binary of right and wrong that you suggest I do, that would be helpful. |
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An old monkey keeper was doling out nuts when he said, "three in the morning, and four in the evening." The entire crowd of monkeys screeched in anger. The old man said, "all right then, four in the morning and three in the evening." The entire crowd of |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Feb 27, 2005 - 10:21 PM |
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Chinease national xenophobia is not a new thing, but the artificially induced hatred of Japan is. A couple of decades ago, it was Taiwan and the capitalists. Mao himself personally thanked Japanese Prime Minister Tanaka for the Japanese invasion, saying that it had weakened the legitimate government of China so much that it had made the Communist revolution possible. Now that China has learned that it needs the capitalists, the Red Gods have simply found a new enemy, with which to distract the population.
As for this:
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| But what Chinese culture, five thousand years of thinking? There is not enough space here! |
You could fit all of that thought on the back of a post-it note, and still have enough space left over for the shopping list. |
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Conlige suspectos semper habitos |
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fukuman
Wonder Wit
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 3699
Status: Offline
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Mar 02, 2005 - 12:02 AM |
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NL - what r u on?
when people say "*** never did anything good" , doesnt that just show a complete failure to understand mankind? how can u leave surrey and still think like this?
do u really thjink Mao, hitler or co thought " o\h god im evil and i love it" or do u think they were doing the best thing for Their kind?
Mao united china, probably improved the lifes of more chinese than he hurt in the long term ( and chinese r not people, they r a race, over thouands of years)
i know what u r sayin, but u dont know anything about chinese history.
would they be here under the KMD? |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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| Posted:
Mar 03, 2005 - 07:35 PM |
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Well I'll have to look past the fact that you didn't comprehend me: a in I did not say that Hitler and Mao did not think they were 'doing good'.
So ignoring your comments about what I didn't even say, I'll also say tha you still haven't actually stated what Mao did that was good.
When we met that fateful day fman, you blathered on about some communist fashionable abstract.
Well, I just don't see how you can say the lives of people were improved in the long run.
almost 100 million people died directly due to mao's "ideas", and I just don't see anyone actually saying anything he did that was good. Not the "idea". The act, the result that was good.
I'm not from surrey, thank god. |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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fukuman
Wonder Wit
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 3699
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Mar 09, 2005 - 02:09 PM |
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How about the 100 million that perished in the anti-muslim purges of the late 19th century? what did they die for?.
countless millions were given opportunities they would never have had under the KMD. and china fed itself for the 1st time in 1950 , albeit b4 mao then started another famine.
How many were saved by free universal medicine? how was the population able to double in 20-30 years? |
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