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StMichael
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Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
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 Posted:
June 20, 2008 - 12:59 PM |
 
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Konnichiwa, xinli-san!
Sounds so weird coming from me. I am not Japanese - the only person in my family who speaks Japanese is my wife. 
We have a saying - the salesman's goods are always good, and since I'm the Head of Primary Division of the Xuhui campus of SSIS, my goods are obviously good. Just not suitable for everybody.
1. Yes, English and Chinese are taught by native speakers and users of the language.
2. Our ESL programme, unfortunately, is virtually non-existent for the lower years (grades 1-2). At the upper years (grades 3 and above), we do offer an IEP programme meant to bridge the pupils into the mainstream programme after a semester to a year.
3. Our academic programme is *very* much more rigorous compared to a western curriculum. Compared to a Chinese or Japanese curriculum, we are more relaxed. We attempt to straddle a middle path between the East and the West. Exams and tests are important, and the children as young as grade 1 are expected to do about an hour of homework a *day* (one of my former clients thought I meant *week* but no, it really is *day*). When it comes close to the exams, and the teachers begin to load the children with prep, it may go to 2-3 hours a day.
To encourage creativity and develop character in our children, they have to do a major project (IPW - Interdisciplinary Project Work) each year, and we give them an hour each of Drama, Speech, PE, Dance, Music, Art, PC (Character Building), CME (Civics and Moral Education - this one only half an hour) and Information and Computer Technology per week.
We are still very focused upon the academic performance of the children though, and this is a feature of the Singapore educational system.
4. All after-class activities (phonics, Japanese, French, gymnastics, etc) are held on Saturdays, but for 1.5 hour each week, our pupils can choose an elective activity (in-line skating, swimming, soccer, basketball, dance, choir, etc) held during school hours.
We do stream Chinese classes, and we have done so since 2005. From 2007, we even offer the local Chinese stream, which means we now have 3 streams of Chinese - local (native standard, obviously), Singapore Chinese (near-native standard) and CFL (Chinese as Foreign Language).
The Singapore curriculum is meant for native users of English, and those without native levels will definitely struggle. But there have been many, many non-native-speaking pupils who have managed to do well in our system, even though they struggle for the first two years (where their grades can be very discouraging and dismal).
Right now, one of my pupils is preparing to return to her normal grade level and will take her exams in August. She began last year by dropping a grade and taking the IEP class. She moved to a mainstream class after a semester and continued to struggle (but she is one very hardworking pupil!), but passed her papers. If she passes her grade 6 exams this August, the school will take her in at Middle School for the next semester.
Is this a typical pupil? No. Most of my non-native-speaking pupils take at least 1-2 years before they master the language, and many of them do not pass the tests administered to them during these years. Yet they persevered and are now regularly passing their tests. As many as persevered, I have also many who got discouraged and gave up. The only thing we teachers can do is to continue to encourage them - the Singaporean system's learning curve is steep, and very strict as well.
From the above, one can conclude that SSIS teaches English well. The problem is with the fact that many of the pupils who come to us are not native users of English, and our system does not, and will not, make it any easier. Otherwise, SSIS might as well not be a Singaporean school but just another PYP school.
Hope I have given you enough information to make your decision. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com
Last edited by StMichael on June 20, 2008 - 01:03 PM; edited 2 times in total |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 20, 2008 - 01:01 PM |
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Just in case you wonder why our ESL programmes are virtually non-existent for grades 1-2, we believe these are foundational years, and the children are actually young enough to quickly catch up in the regular mainstream lessons.
In fact, many of our non-native-speaking pupils who do well later has the advantage of beginning early with us. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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elainelge
Lurker
Joined: June 11, 2008
Posts: 20
Status: Offline
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June 20, 2008 - 04:18 PM |
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Hi 88807 thank you for your Info, I will add to my list of schools to visit in December.
Hi StMichael, i have been trying to access SSIS website for sometime but no success.....also I understand from a friend that there are fee discounts available? could you PM me on this?
Thanks
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 20, 2008 - 05:09 PM |
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Try www.ssis.cn or www.ssis.asia. I have no problems getting through here in China.
As for fee discounts, well, I do not have to PM. The company is a business entity, but Admin and Finance do consider all cases of appeal for fee discounts. I am aware that we do give discounts for siblings. |
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Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
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June 20, 2008 - 07:43 PM |
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xinli, I know your message was posted to St M., but I can help a little as I once taught at SSIS, but I have moved to SHSID.
When I was there, SSIS operated with an 'immersion' approach- ESL class, then after that all the kids together. That aside, the English text books they use are really good, and there's a lot to be said for the place. I think their textbooks are better than the US ones used at SHSID. St M. can comment about the Chinese program, I think it changed after I left.
SHSID might be an option to. We have different streamed grades of English as well as ESL (ESL, then O level, then O+, then 'native O and native A'. It means your child can work her/his way up through various levels). English is taught by native speakers, and the Chinese program (being a Chinese school) is taught by locals and is a Chinese syllabus.
I think though both SSIS and SHSID are very academic, which is both a strength and a weakness. From what I have heard, both SSIS and SHSID have a much higher standard of maths and science than almost any other 'international/overseas' schools, but they don't emphasize creativity as much. They are very "asian" schools. |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
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June 20, 2008 - 07:45 PM |
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elainelge no worries Let me know your positive and negative thoughts after your visit. I can pass on any feedback. We are always looking to improve. |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 20, 2008 - 10:23 PM |
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Heh, and I suspect 88807 is way happier in SHSID too - it is a school that meshes very well with your philosophy and thoughts on education, yes? I heard from my former pupils (who have since gone over to SHSID) that they get *even more homework* there! But knowing children's tendency to exaggerate, I would tend to laugh it off.
I still see Aya and another girl occasionally at my campus, waiting for their friends. It is wonderful to see the friendship between them.
Oh boy, how I miss the simpler life of just teaching, without dealing with all the stuff one gets to deal with in management! |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
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June 20, 2008 - 11:17 PM |
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Same amount of homework I think, but there more clubs and activities for the kids between all that. |
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xinli
Newbie
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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June 21, 2008 - 07:44 AM |
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Thank you Michael for your detailed and quick response! Very much appreciated. Very helpful.
Also to 88807, thank you for introducing SHSID.
Can anybody tell me more about SUIS(http://www.suis.com.cn, http://www.suisedu.com/ are these two websites same school？)
and Yew Chung? Thanks a lot! |
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Rave
Newbie
Joined: June 12, 2008
Posts: 2
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2008 - 01:40 AM |
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| 88807 wrote: |
Rave, SHSID isn't a perfect school, none of them are.
Universities and schools in many other countries, are run on the basis that their foreign intake of students help to subsidize their local students. This is a common model in government funded institutions. There are also many schools run like businesses. Having said that, Im not really sure why you would say why SHSID is "run like a business" and what that actually means. Teachers have access to all the materials they need, decent text books etc. One foreign owned school i worked at in Shanghai (it really was run like a business) was so tight with its money teachers were paper rationed, and were only issued a certain number of white board markers a term!
Staff turnover rate is high at SHSID. That is because the fees are lower than other schools, and they have to hire a contingent of young teachers to keep their huge foreign staff at the required level. They do have a core of experienced teachers each year. Staff turn over has its positives to, there are constantly new ideas coming into the school. They are also a government run school, and paying the salaries of some western (private) schools is not an option.
Teachers at SHSID have to enter grades and comments into a central computer system, like most other decent schools, and so they cant take their marks with them. These teachers marks are password protected etc. On very rare occasions, subject to meetings and discussion with teachers, grades are reviewed. All schools I've worked at in Australia and in China (both Chinese and international), reserve that right.
Most students are happy with the school because it's a pretty good school. The seniors getting into all the "top" universities, both here and in the "west". Teachers are left to do their thing without micro management, and despite being a government school, slowly some new ideas have been adopted based on suggestions from expatriate staff. Change always happens slowly in a government setting though, and one must be aware of that. |
1) I have statements from people who work at SHSID who know the school changes grades. . Teachers still record the grades on paper. Furthermore your arguement on "password protection" is weak because the school which runs the computer database also posseses all the passwords needed to alter anything within the database.
2) As for the "core" of experienced teachers . You have your way of elegance. By core you imply central most , inner most, but you also imply the minority, which means the majority of staff still consists of teaching "newbies". Which means the vast majority of subjects are still being taught by the fresh blood. As for decent textbooks - World War II consists of about 26 pgs worth of margins, pictures and materials? ( Strong empasis on the science is good and all but not to this degree.) Teachers might have all the materials they need to "teach". Real question is do the students have everything they need to truly learn? Furthermore have you noticed that not a single student has been made to repeat at year at SHSID? That the make-up test is always signifigantly easier than the actual test? That you as a teacher, are instructed to do so? How the weeky meetings are complete crap? How nobody really wants to go? As for the business running - students are not bright young minds waiting to be crafted. They are clients, or at least their parents are. SHSID has built themselves a decent outer image, tending to the the campus everyday. They show you pictures of that, they boast about that. They don't show you the classrooms with loosely screwed desks and chairs with writing all over them.
3)Under the assumption that new ideas really are slowly making their way into the system, that is a good thing. Progress however slow is still worth something. However slow is not good for the kids that are currently or in the near future attending the school because slow change means tiny changes over a long period of time, for the students in their time frame -insignifigant change. If the school really does change over the period of the next few years or perhaps decade, when it does I will recognize it as a new and hopefully better school. 88807 I agree - SHSID is not a perfect school, that none of the school are. However SHSID is just that much farther from perfect in comparison to a great many others.
Dig deeper next year if you are truly doubt me. Perhaps you'll be the one to blow whistle.
| msittig wrote: |
Hi Rave! May I ask what perspective you criticize the school from? Are you a current/former teacher? A student or parent? I know that anonymity is safer, but identifying your relationship with the school would add some credibility to your criticisms. As it stands now, your comments don't really mean much. |
Unfortunately I am currently unable to disclose my point of perspective for it may cause great complications in my life seeing as there is a staff member taking the defensive side of SHSID on this forum. Although my comments may not mean as much at the moment - I just want that one parent that comes to this forum for advice on which school his/her child to attend, to read this - and reconsider. Money means a lot in the world today, but your kid should mean more.
-Rave |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2008 - 04:52 AM |
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Rave,
I am not from SHSID (duh!), but do have former clients and pupils studying there. You do realise, of course, that in forums like this, that establishing credentials is important in letting people take you with more than a pinch of salt, to treat your words as being more than a rant. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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registered user
Newbie
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 1
Status: Offline
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June 23, 2008 - 04:55 AM |
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| Post subject: Livingston American School, Eddie Campbell |
Parents,
As to my own experience with Livingston American School, I'd just like to offer that I have left over a period of weeks numerous and repeated messages detailing my interest in this school directly with the office of the principal, Mr. Eddie Campbell, without receiving any response back to me in any way, shape, or form whatsoever.
That Mr. Campbell can not, or will not, make a most basic gesture of ethical professional conduct speaks volumes. If he can not, or will not, properly handle the 'little things', such as simply responding to a repeatedly made inquiry, how can he be counted on to run a school in an appropriate manner?
Take care friends, and good luck! |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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June 24, 2008 - 07:46 AM |
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Rave, Im not sure who you are, but with all due respect, you need to think about your posts a little better.
First, SHSID is not a private school. It's a government school. that means it is subject (like government schools in any other country) to the directives of the education department. For that reason change is slow. Those teachers who sign up are told this. I was told at interview. "This is a Chinese school, and we welcome new ideas, but just keep in mind its a Chinese government school." Sure, it has some grafiti on desks, its a little rough around the edges. It's a government school! The fees here are substantialy less than many schools.
There are a lot of "new" teachers here, but they teach lower grades. Experienced teachers teach the more challenging grades. SHSID's high school results speak for themselves- despite drasticly lower fees, students here get into top universities at the same rate as any other school in Shanghai. This is not the only criteria of a good school, but it's certainly one of the most important to our parents.
Grades are COMPUTERISED at SHSID (did/do you really teach here??). In any system in any school, given all these systems are password protected, someone has access. As I said, ALL SCHOOLS at some time, given exceptional circumstances (more so asian schools, because a child's past record is more important to them in the future) review grades. Please do a little research on this.
Some text books aren't the best, but overall they are pretty decent. A textbook having only a small section on a given topic is entirely relevant to some grades and English levels.
You critisize the amount of science studied? Please, before signing up (im assuming you are a teacher or former teacher) you are aware this is an ASIAN school, and there is generally an emphasis on science and maths. This is entirely appropriate in this context. if you don't like this, go back to your country of origin, you might be more confitable there. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, it's just that it causes untold stress to everyone concerned when a "round peg is in a square hole". If I went to the US and hated the school system and tried to change it, I'd just be frustrating everyone. Maybe the problem wouldn't be with the US system (it may suit the culture), it maybe just i don't fit in. It's not an insult to anyone, its just sometimes the case.
And one final note, speaking of schools in general- Rave, you haven't worked in many schools, because every school I've worked in China and out of China has long boring staff meetings that noone wants to go to. SSIS had the longest and most useless. The Chinese management of SHSID go out of their way to reduce meeting times for foreign staff, and for an Asian school, our meeting time is low.
The last thing China needs are people screaming at it to change to 'their standards' assuming that the foreign standards are right. SHSID is not wasting money on fancy desks and ornaments, its investing in its environment and infrastructure and it gets better each year, in its own way, and in its own time. While doing this its getting kids into top universities, and delivering a very good academic education. |
Last edited by 88807 on June 24, 2008 - 08:01 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
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June 24, 2008 - 07:53 AM |
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Rave, one last point. At some schools in Shanghai parents are discussed in meetings as "clients", this is not true at SHSID. SHSID is a government schools, not a run-for-profit private business. Please get your facts straight. |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 24, 2008 - 08:56 PM |
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I realised you used "had" and not "has" when describing SSIS. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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elainelge
Lurker
Joined: June 11, 2008
Posts: 20
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June 25, 2008 - 07:36 PM |
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OK - Someone please help! I need a short list - will be coming THIS August for a trip and mving in DEC, will any school allow my kids to start in MARCH?...arrggh!
My kids are very used to Australian type school meaning, English delivery, but they also go for chinese school on SATURDAYS now, so cutting school back to 5 days a week for them is a great PLUS....swimming and a musical instrument is also fantastic apart from that fees of course....
- can I safely say to go and visit -
1. SSIS
2. SMIC
3. SUIS / SUISEDU (what is the difference?)
4. SHSID
and keep PingHe / Gold Apple as spare?
Actually, it would be much appreciated if I could have a pro and con analysis of the schools?
sorry I keep running around in circles, but although local schools seem really attractive price wise, I have decided NOT to pursue as my kids would not be able to meet the chinese standards, plus moving here is stressful for them already.....
THANK YOU in advance!
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msittig
Rocker
Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 733
Location: Zhangjiang High-Tech Park
Status: Offline
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June 25, 2008 - 09:39 PM |
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You are very welcome to visit SMIC! Note, however, that we can't accept transfers after the beginning of the second semester, which starts at the beginning of February...
Also note that schools 1, 3 and 4 on your list are in Puxi (on the west side of the Huangpu River) while SMIC is in Pudong. The commute can be draining so it's best to find our where you/your husband will be working/living before you pick a school for your kids.
If you have problems getting through to our Admissions Office -- unfortunately, it happens -- you can contact me and I'll put you in touch with them. I'll send you a private message with my school e-mail address. Our school website is:
http://www.smic-school.cn/ |
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Hi Charlotte! |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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June 25, 2008 - 09:53 PM |
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| elainelge wrote: |
Actually, it would be much appreciated if I could have a pro and con analysis of the schools?
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While I understand your position and your hope to cover all ends in finding the school that would most suitable for your family and in your situation, I like to share with you my experience.
Everything you find in this forum, school website, others opinion, your own opinion formed from your research etc is just that....your research. It would be absolute best that you personally visit the schools (which you already intent to), just go in with an open mind. Your visit and your research may give you an entirely different view altogether.
I was quite surprised myself and quite dissapointed in some ways; perhaps I should not have put in my own expectation of each school I visited after I did my research. Some schools which totally was not on my list turned out to be the wonderful ones which would be best for my children. |
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elainelge
Lurker
Joined: June 11, 2008
Posts: 20
Status: Offline
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June 26, 2008 - 08:42 AM |
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Hi All,
I think since my kids will spend a significant amount of time at school, we will first consider a suitable school and then look for a place to stay NEAR school, for adults to travel to work is OK, but for kids to make long journeys to school (if we have a choice), not so OK.
Thanks again, if there are any other schools that I should add to the list of schools to visit, do let me know, perhaps it will be a good reference point for any other newbies to Shanghai to use as a base.... 
E |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 26, 2008 - 06:04 PM |
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We have accepted pupils in March before, but *only* if the parents understand that their kid may not be sufficiently prepared for the semestral exams in early June. I had kids coming in from the Australian system, and realised that they are about 2 years behind us in Math and Science - they really struggled for the first year in Math. The stress was finally too much for the family, and they returned to Australia. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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June 26, 2008 - 08:41 PM |
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elainelge I think whatever you do, write down a half dozen things you think are important in the school for you, and assess them that way. Dont let schools sway you from what you think is important. They all do their own thing pretty well.
Coming from Australia, your child might have trouble in SSIS and SHSID, so you might need some tutoring if you want your child to do well in their exams.
All the best Let me know if you'd like me help out if you visit SHSID. |
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88807
Lurker
Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
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June 26, 2008 - 08:57 PM |
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If you are going to live near school, SHSID is next to the botanic gardens, that might be a bonus. |
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elainelge
Lurker
Joined: June 11, 2008
Posts: 20
Status: Offline
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June 27, 2008 - 08:23 PM |
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Hi I actually have an excel spreadsheet with schools (rows) and rating criteria (columns) all ready  must be the consultant in me that just could not resist. Later, I can also share with anyone else that may be interested in a school comparison. (well my 2 cents worth anyway)
As for being behind, yes I am aware, my son is in Prep this year and he is still learning the stuff they already taught him in kindergarten when he was 5 (in Malaysia)! Still, having said that, the schooling system in Australia does great stuff for confidence building and creativity and literacy.
Reason for me preferring a slightly more rigorous system is that I am not sure where they will end up in terms of high school / uni, so better for them to have a good foundation than to be shocked out of their system later in life....
Let's face it, times are changing and even here in Australia, I can tell you, there is serious "nurturing" happening in the suburbs.....not that kids get whipped here, but everywhere you go, there are murmurings of "Kumon", "piano lessons", "private schools", etc, etc......
OK enough said, thanks again everyone. KEEP SHARING!
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caramello
Seeker
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 73
Status: Offline
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June 28, 2008 - 10:51 AM |
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I'm truly amazed though at the amount of homework that some schools hand out to really quite little kids here. That and the idea being thrown about in the UK at least of "ending" the long summer break...i mean kids should have time to be kids! Those long summer holidays are still real treasured memories for me and to see my own brood enjoying them is a pleasure. I don't disagree with nurturing don't get me wrong...just observing that i agree with your point about creativity and confidence as well. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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June 28, 2008 - 07:46 PM |
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caramello: There has been quite a few discussions about this issue here in this forum. To many, my decision to guide my children first to be children, thus I am not too academically inclined for my children. I think that will come when their basic children creativity needs are filled. There is of course a balance as in everything else which is a fine line. To some, I am a not giving my children the best because I am not giving them the tuition classes after school etc. But this is a passionate choice to every parent. Many also think that the int school my children go to is not good because my children don't come back with much homework. Really, they already go to school for 7 hours + travel time each day. Sigh...... It is most surprising how many parents measure how good a school is by how much homework the students get!
To some, they don't have much choice depending to where their children will end up after their time in China is done. To us, we know that we will come back to Canada where a lifelong opportunity of education awaits. Once an expat parent from Singapore told me that if her children has a childhood, they won't have an adulthood! meaning that they will not be "successful" adults if she did not drill them with mountain heaps of homework at primary level. Unfortunately that is quite true in the Singaporean society. |
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