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StMichael
Ranter


Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Aug 22, 2008 - 07:36 PM |
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ShanghaiInitiative
Squeeker

Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 14
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Posted:
Aug 22, 2008 - 11:48 PM |
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Michael,
I sent you a PM to ask you a couple questions.
Cheers |
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88807
Lurker


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
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Posted:
Aug 27, 2008 - 03:53 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: SHSID -- NO!! |
I strongly disagree that SHSID is an academic school, at least for the 1 year that my 2 children (grade 5 and 9) attended. I was very disappointed, and feel they fell back about a half grade in learning. They never seemed to have homework, and the general courses (except English) were mostly (not all) taught by locals, whose lack of English proficiiency was oft pointed out by my children in humorous examples. They had attended SAS and Concordia (both fine) for 5 years, and are transferring to SMIC this year. I got the feeling that SHSID was milking the foreigners for high tuition, giving back a mediocre education at best, and using the "profits" to fund their Chinese school.[/quote]
Hi,
It's ashame you had a bad experience at SHSID.
The school is VERY pushy about homework and requires all students do homework for every subject every night. In my opinion the kids do too much, but it's a Chinese school and thus emphasizes it. If your kids weren't getting enough homework, that's the fault of the teacher (did you complain? If you had the teacher in charge would have been in huge trouble, and your child would have got more than enough homework). I usually hear of the opposite- parents who think the kids get too much homework.
This is a Chinese international school, and so obviously many of the subjects will be taught by locals. All the Chinese teachers I have worked with here speak excellent English, so this is news to me. Sure, some may not be 'perfect', but this is a Chinese school, and is not tying to compete with Concordia or any of the other western school. If it was trying to, it would employ all expat teachers, and the fees would also be increased to pay for the huge salary bill (school fees for SHSID are much lower than SAS et al).
As I said, its a Chinese international school and is here for kids who want a bilingual education, and asian values.
In Australia, state run universities use the fees from foreign students to help subsidize the local part of its operations. This is true in many countries. Since this is a state run school, it's no surprise that this occurs. What intrigues me is how this effects your child's eduction- would you prefer to send them to SSIS, where teachers are given a limit to the number white board markers and paper they use, and school profit goes into private hands (SSIS is a profit making business)?
SHSID does what it does pretty well. I think you just have to be sure what exactly you want for your kids education. SMIC is also an excellent school, but from what I know of all these schools, most of them aren't really competing against each other. SHSID's competition isn't the likes of Concordia et al, it's probably the international school attached to Fudan University.
By the way, SHSID last academic year got such good IB averages that it's one of the top schools in the world in that regard. |
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shanghaibarry
Barker


Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 04, 2008 - 01:48 PM |
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What a nice thread you guys have here! Informative & useful tips on how to select an Int'l school in Shanghai.
In fact we had just enrolled our 4 yrs old with SSIC at K1 level, and school term had started for more than a week. What we noticed that he had lose weight quite a bit for some reasons, and whenever we ask him about what he had eaten at school, the reply is always "dumpling" (tang yuan in Chinese), that got my wide really worried. But guess that's because he is simply saying whatever he likes to eat rather than what he was given at school. And probably because of the long bus ride to and from xuhui campus (he is the very first the bus picks up and the last to drop off) that made him lost his appettite
I chose SSIC for kindergarten over Victoria because of the campus which we think kids may want to have a larger and more spacious place to play in and feel happier closer to more greeneries. And also because of my wife and my mom-in-law who takes care of my elder son do not speak English, so he had grown up so far is a pure Chinese environment. Though the nursery/kindergarten he went was supposedly bi-lingual and my wife told me that there are foreign kids, we later found out that those foreign kids are there to learn Chinese given that they only pick up their mother tongue at home and not a word of Chinese. And our situation is just the opposite - I am the only person who can speak English at home but will have to communicate in Chinese with my wife and in-law... Probably need more exposure for my son to the western or non-Chinese culture. And the kindergarten turned out to be mono-lingual, or if I were to stretch the bi-lingual definition - Mandarin+Shanghainese (a shocking discovery when my boy conversed with an old lady outside the supermarket in Shanghainese).
My wife used to have major objection for my pushing her to enrol my boy with International school because of the fee differentials and not knowing the difference between Mainland education system and those from overseas, and she thinks that bi-lingual kindergartens are just as good, and ur kids can follow the local education system and perhaps pick up English when they go back to Singapore. But with my constant nagging and talking about blending back in to the competitive schooling environment when they have to go back to Singapore eventually, she gave in at last. This was after our very first "meet the parents" session held at the school... where no respect was given whatsoever to the teachers with parents all talking on their phones or even playing PSP or mobile phone games, or chatting amongst themselves loudly when the headmaster and various teachers were giving their speeches, and I found myself to be the only one listening.
Just a quick question to St.Michael... I have plan to send my younger boy to SSIC nursery when he gets to 3 in a couple of years time, and by the time the younger one enters primary, I will send both back to Singapore to help them blend in to the environment and culture (of course that includes the unique Singlish expressions), and my elder boy will be P2 entering P3 by then. What options do I have back in Singapore or will SSIC assist in anyway? Will the transition be difficult with what they learn in SSIC? Any suggestion on that?
Thanks & cheers,
Barry |
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StMichael
Ranter


Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 04, 2008 - 08:06 PM |
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Hi Barry! We have probably never met, since I run the Primary Division, and not the Pre-School of SSIS (not SSIC).
SSIS is a private enterprise, and the only link we have with MOE is the fact that we are an iPSLE centre, nothing else. We have no other formal professional or official links with MOE. I suggest you do what I did with my firstborn - register him for the P1 Registration Exercise with a school. A warning though, for people like me whose official address with ICA is the Chinese one - ALL schools in Singapore are considered "beyond 2km" for the exercise!
The transition will definitely not be easy (even a transition within schools in Singapore creates tensions and stress), but definitely easier than if the child were to take on another syllabus. That being said, children are surprisingly adaptable, and we parents should give them more credit for their resilience and adaptability.
And about Singlish. Well, while it is present in our school, your boy may find himself somewhat "weirded out" when he returns to Singapore (assuming a neighbourhood school) where the Singlish expressions are much, much more pervasive than in our school. I remembered my pupils telling me (when I used to teach in Singapore) that I "talk funny" simply because my accent is not typically Singaporean, and because I do not use Singlish in my speech. Ah, those were the days... |
_________________ Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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shanghaibarry
Barker


Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 04, 2008 - 11:52 PM |
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Thanks a million Michael for your tips... yes, I am sure we have never met as I had not been to any of the campuses myself due to tight schedules when my wife went checking out SSIC.
Not sure if you know what happens if I register my boy for P1 Registration Exercise with a neighbourhood school back in Singapore but he will still come back to SSIC for a few more years, will his "place" be automatically cancelled or disqualified after a few years? And I don't know if my official address with ICA is now Shanghai or still remains in Singapore as both my boys were born here so they had to apply for their citizenships, but you know how "proactive" the Singapore Government is when it comes to logging the whereabouts of Singaporeans...
In terms of the transition, will the assessment level or difficulty of the Singapore syllabus be very different from what SSIC offers? And which subjects will SSIC students at primary level need to boost up in order to become at least on par with the standards back in Singapore from your experience dealing with parents who may be facing similar issues should they go back to Singapore.
Cheers,
Barry |
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StMichael
Ranter


Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 05, 2008 - 04:50 PM |
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Barry,
You will have to pay to renew his place there every year. I think I paid SGD120 to reserve my boy's place every year at Kheng Cheng Primary, my wife's alma mater. For the P1 Registration Exercise, they use the father's official address, so it's your official address (in your NRIC) that matters.
If the children returns to a neighbourhood school, the level of difficulty should be about similar. If they return to a top school (like mine in Singapore), they may perhaps be streamed to one of the MA or LA classes. |
_________________ Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker


Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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Posted:
Sep 07, 2008 - 09:25 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: SHSID -- NO!! |
| 88807 wrote: |
By the way, SHSID last academic year got such good IB averages that it's one of the top schools in the world in that regard. |
Can anyone verify this info and quote source for it as well? |
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88807
Lurker


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 13, 2008 - 11:28 PM |
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Contact SHSID and ask to speak to Mr Liu, the IB contact. Each school is given info each year about where they stand with their IB marks. My Liu can verify it, or email someone from IB, http://www.ibo.org/contact/ |
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88807
Lurker


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 13, 2008 - 11:42 PM |
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I just read the posts about teacher salaries further back in the thread, interesting. I think it's good the three schools quoted listed a salary range, seems to be a little more honest. I'm really uncomfortable in an interview discussing salary, so having an idea of the range helps. |
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StMichael
Ranter


Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 14, 2008 - 09:08 AM |
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I am curious, 88807 - does SHSID display its salary scale openly as well? I am starting to wonder if this "no display of salary" thing is a feature of "Chinese" companies, if you get what I mean. |
_________________ Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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tnmom
LoopKicker


Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 927
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 14, 2008 - 09:47 AM |
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Regarding IB scores - the school profile should show their results. Shanghai American School publishes the following:
IB DIPLOMA
SAS offers more than 30 subjects at standard and higher level. IB grades on a 1 to 7 scale, with 4 being passing and 7 outstanding. To earn the IB diploma a student must earn a minimum of 24 points in six subjects, complete 150 hours of outside activities (CAS), attend theory of knowledge classes and write an original 4000 word research paper (extended essay). SAS students consistently place well above world averages. In the past four years we have beaten world averages in 93% of the courses offered.
Year
Diploma candidates
Pass rate
SAS average score
World average
2007
59
97%
34
30
2006
36
100%
36
30
2005
42
100%
37
30
2004
30
97%
36
26 |
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elainelge
Lurker

Joined: June 11, 2008
Posts: 20
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Posted:
Sep 15, 2008 - 08:44 PM |
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Upon arrival, I looked at both Pudong (schools and places to stay) and Puxi. In the end, the lure of food / city living, Gubei Carrefour (just kidding....), proximity to work and more caused us to choose Puxi over Pudong. (purely personal choice - this is something one must come and see for themselves). Pudong-ers will never prefer Puxi and Puxi-ans will never prefer Pudong (or so I am told....)
In the end due to location my search for the right school for my kids became a tussle between SSIS (Minhang) and SUIS. I found both schools fantastic, tours were conducted very professionally. (BTW, I also visited SSIS Xuhui and was very impressed with school but too far for me). Both had great facilities (although SSIS MH would win hands down on this one). Whilst primary syllabus for both schools were non comparable (different content) - I found both schools were able to provide a well rounded educational experience (with SSIS being more "challenging" than SUIS). Extra curricular activities offered by both schools were varied and interesting enough - I thought SUIS offering a 3rd language was excellent. Whilst SSIS conducts all activities within school hours, kids would have to stay back on certain days for SUIS.
Spoke to parents with kids in both schools (will speak to more as there are plenty from both schools living in my compound), managed also to speak to some teachers from SUIS but none from SSIS yet....
Content of Mandarin - SUIS is a billingual school (all lessons except for English, has some mandarin in it), as for SSIS, they have one mandarin subject as per the Singapore syllabus. So it depends on what you are looking for as a parent.
Continuity - as in where will you go next and how will your kid fit in, in the next country. In this aspect, choosing a school that offers an international curriculum (or one that is recognised outside Shanghai) also becomes a factor for consideration. If your kids are older, this becomes even more important.....
Anyway, both schools are great schools, I have not made any final decisions, but thot it would be important for me to list down some of my findings...before they are forgotten. |
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elainelge
Lurker

Joined: June 11, 2008
Posts: 20
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 15, 2008 - 08:44 PM |
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Upon arrival, I looked at both Pudong (schools and places to stay) and Puxi. In the end, the lure of food / city living, Gubei Carrefour (just kidding....), proximity to work and more caused us to choose Puxi over Pudong. (purely personal choice - this is something one must come and see for themselves). Pudong-ers will never prefer Puxi and Puxi-ans will never prefer Pudong (or so I am told....)
In the end due to location my search for the right school for my kids became a tussle between SSIS (Minhang) and SUIS. I found both schools fantastic, tours were conducted very professionally. (BTW, I also visited SSIS Xuhui and was very impressed with school but too far for me). Both had great facilities (although SSIS MH would win hands down on this one). Whilst primary syllabus for both schools were non comparable (different content) - I found both schools were able to provide a well rounded educational experience (with SSIS being more "challenging" than SUIS). Extra curricular activities offered by both schools were varied and interesting enough - I thought SUIS offering a 3rd language was excellent. Whilst SSIS conducts all activities within school hours, kids would have to stay back on certain days for SUIS.
Spoke to parents with kids in both schools (will speak to more as there are plenty from both schools living in my compound), managed also to speak to some teachers from SUIS but none from SSIS yet....
Content of Mandarin - SUIS is a billingual school (all lessons except for English, has some mandarin in it), as for SSIS, they have one mandarin subject as per the Singapore syllabus. So it depends on what you are looking for as a parent.
Continuity - as in where will you go next and how will your kid fit in, in the next country. In this aspect, choosing a school that offers an international curriculum (or one that is recognised outside Shanghai) also becomes a factor for consideration. If your kids are older, this becomes even more important.....
Anyway, both schools are great schools, I have not made any final decisions, but thot it would be important for me to list down some of my findings...before they are forgotten. |
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88807
Lurker


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 18, 2008 - 03:20 PM |
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| StMichael wrote: |
| I am curious, 88807 - does SHSID display its salary scale openly as well? I am starting to wonder if this "no display of salary" thing is a feature of "Chinese" companies, if you get what I mean. |
Yeah, think it is The basic package for an inexpereinced teacher used to be advertised on our website, but the higher end salary was not, and we are not supposed to discuss it. It's ok, not the SAS scale, but we aren't required to work the same number of hours and the home room teachers do lots of the work, so its pretty reasonable. |
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88807
Lurker


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sep 18, 2008 - 03:25 PM |
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| tnmom wrote: |
Regarding IB scores - the school profile should show their results. Shanghai American School publishes the following:
IB DIPLOMA
SAS offers more than 30 subjects at standard and higher level. IB grades on a 1 to 7 scale, with 4 being passing and 7 outstanding. To earn the IB diploma a student must earn a minimum of 24 points in six subjects, complete 150 hours of outside activities (CAS), attend theory of knowledge classes and write an original 4000 word research paper (extended essay). SAS students consistently place well above world averages. In the past four years we have beaten world averages in 93% of the courses offered. |
SHSID are above these rates, form the figures Ive seen. But I think a school should be judged on more than results. A school has to do more than get high marks, and SAS offers a lot that SHSID doesn't (it offers more creative outlet for kids).
I think again, it comes down to what you want for your kids and what they want. |
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Elizabeth Lee
Lurker

Joined: Sep 01, 2008
Posts: 23
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Posted:
Sep 24, 2008 - 04:21 AM |
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Any feedback on Shanghai United International School (known as Shanghai XieHe International School to others)?
Read in Shanghai expat there was an exodus on school teachers a few years back, but am curious to know what people's perspective of the school is in recent years.
Anyone out there who attended the primary school? Feedback on curriculum and teaching staff appreciated. |
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winpetung
Seeker


Joined: Mar 31, 2003
Posts: 46
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 04, 2008 - 07:57 PM |
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A local private school which some of you might want to check out is the Shanghai Fudan-Vanke Experimental Private school. Their website is www.vks.cn |
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jojobapropolis7
Newbie
Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 1
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 05, 2008 - 12:33 AM |
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| Post subject: Re: SHSID |
| 777lf wrote: |
This is from a previous, I cant remeber the name of the person, but here is a part of the post- "Worst (Objectively, really): SHS-ID
My experience with SHS students is this: It has too many apathetic local teachers and little to no supervision on the students. Students can go there for 8 years without basic English skills. Non-existent college counseling and planning. This is where excellent students struggle to create a college path by themselves, good students become average, average students go bad, and bad students commit crimes. Really. My understanding is that the management is purely Chinese aparitchik, and all the money from the large International Division used for its excellent Chinese track. Oh, and foreign students are not allowed into the Chinese track. You can get a good immersion in Chinese here, but only because so many 'international' students don't speak English at all. Meanwhile students learn how to sleep in class, ditch school, go nightclubbing, and worse."
Well, i dont know how you define "best". I wouldn't send my child to a school with a US system, some would. SAS should have the best facilities, because its fees are the highest, or one of the highest, in the city. It also pays its teachers very well, and they work long hours.
SHSID is a Chinese school, and has to deal with the fact that it's a government school, which means it has local restrictions. SAS has very few. It's really quite an unfair comparison. SHSID has the most beautiful grounds of any school in Shanghai, its superb. Its buildings are old, but it actually feels like a school, a real school. Many of the other international schools lack that character.
Do students have to speak English to be "international"? Since when should international schools only take students who speak a certain level of English? This makes those schools "western" schools, not international schools. SSIS, not very far from SHSID accept anyone to, but the difference is they offer only one very weak program to kids who don't speak English. They dump kids of all levels in the one class, and it's a nightmare to teach, and very tough for the kids.
SHSID offers streamed classes, IB, and SAT support.
SHSID is a relaxed and "human" place for the kids. It's a school. Its not just a high pressure factory for "acedemic excellence", it's more a regular school. Like a regualr school, it has to deal with kids with many different academic levels. It does this pretty well.
I have a colleague who worked at SSIS and the management at SHSID seems to be much better, and much more flexible. Calling the teachers here names is appalling and an insult to the very fine local teachers that SHSID has. I would hasten to add that owing to the presiteg of SHSID locally, they probably have better teachers than many international schools.
SHSID has its share of problems, but most schools do. It's in a very difficult spot because its a government school trying to operate more flexibly. Its fees are also very low. It has improved a great deal over the past couple of years, and will continue to improve each year. It's a nice place, and good option for parents. I would send my kids there.
Your comments about students at SHSID was over the top and unless you have any kind of evidence, you really shouldn't post comments like that. |
Well said. One of the flaws of SHSID that bugs me, however, is that pays too much attention to advanced level/ IBD students, which is only around 30~60 students out of 300 in a grade. The school should really focus more on other students as well and not just the ones who get better grades. Of course a student's attitude is important; but who says that an ordinary level student is not as studious as an advanced level student? or an IBD student? I heard that a-level(a-level here does not refer to the british A-level system, it's more of an american,international system) students receive more priority because apparently only the "smarter" students got the special privelege to go to an university seminar or something. The different treatments of students from different levels really annoys me. I recommend SHSID if your kid/s is particularly into math or sciences(physics, chemistry, biology). According my experience(I'm quite a science+math lover), SHSID offers the most challanging math and science subjects than any other international schools(objectively, much stronger than SAS; however only under the condition of being in advanced level, not ordinary level). That is because in addition to what's on the textbook, advanced level teaches a lot of extra stuff, extra-challenging stuff that is. |
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StMichael
Ranter


Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 05, 2008 - 12:40 AM |
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Jojo, I have never heard of a-level for the American educational system. I believe you were referring to the Advanced Placement, or AP? Basically, in AP, the students are studying for subjects in the first year of university. |
_________________ Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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tnmom
LoopKicker


Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 927
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 05, 2008 - 10:36 AM |
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Just a quick comment about SHSID - if your kid is wanting to go to a US university don't leave it totally to the school to guide that process. The application process is quite complicated in the US - each university has different requirements and it is very competitive so you can't afford to miss a deadline or submit the incorrect materials. I realize that not all of the graduates there are going to the US for university so it's not their role to provide as much direction.
I don't think that SHSID offers much guidance in this process based on the questions that some of their IB kids have asked at college evenings at SAS. One kid thought that the essay the college rep was giving tips on was his IB extended essay - he didn't realize that he had to write admission essays for each college he applied to. That thought was echoed by his friends sitting next to him as well - they were very confused by the answer. |
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msittig
Rocker


Joined: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 733
Location: Zhangjiang High-Tech Park
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 05, 2008 - 02:32 PM |
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I'm very curious how other international schools in Shanghai deal with the diversity of graduating students who apply to schools all over the world, with different requirements and deadlines in different countries and languages. My school, SMIC Private School, is just starting to deal with this issue. Last year we had one graduating class, this year we will have two, and so on up to what will be a maximum of four; in addition, we have been recruiting a more diverse student body with a wider range of post-graduation plans.
Schools like Yew Cheung advertise that they send students to Britain, Australia, USA, Hong Kong, China... how do they do it? Do they have an army of college counselors? Do their college counselors become experts in all of the different systems? Or do they concentrate on the places where a majority of students are going and let students going to less popular countries handle the application process independently? |
_________________ Hi Charlotte! |
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StMichael
Ranter


Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 06, 2008 - 11:23 AM |
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I know we have a Guidance Counsellor, but I am not aware of her work in this field, since I handle the Primary Division. |
_________________ Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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kittyurmston
Squeeker


Joined: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 18
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 16, 2008 - 10:08 PM |
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as a teacher who has worked at a couple of international schools i have different ideas than some other parents, maybe.
the kids would surprise you i think. they appear to be brats sometimes but in reality they are used to moving, changes and having to make new friends quickly, sometimes giving the impression of being obnoxious, but they are actually quite welcoming and can really help to make an environment supportive to kids who may be new at this and a bit shaky. they also seem very open to other cultures which is something you may struggle to find in schools with very static populations - this is a big consideration
other than that, be careful when listening to teachers opinions as they have a very different agenda to parents. i worked at 1school that was a horrid place as a teacher, but had great facilities and good eal support and a dedicated staff team so v good for the kids. |
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catur
Talker


Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 111
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Oct 17, 2008 - 11:10 AM |
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| Post subject: SHSID (be cautious sending your children there) |
[One of the flaws of SHSID that bugs me, however, is that pays too much attention to advanced level/ IBD students, which is only around 30~60 students out of 300 in a grade. The school should really focus more on other students as well and not just the ones who get better grades. Of course a student's attitude is important; but who says that an ordinary level student is not as studious as an advanced level student? or an IBD student? I heard that a-level(a-level here does not refer to the british A-level system, it's more of an american,international system) students receive more priority because apparently only the "smarter" students got the special privelege to go to an university seminar or something. The different treatments of students from different levels really annoys me.[/quote]
Thanks for this explanation. This explains why my 2 very ordinary children received such pathetic inattention from this school, really setting them back. They are now at SMIC, and it is far superior in every way. Teachers have shown care and given feedback quickly when needed. I would move away from Shanghai before sending my children back to SHSID. |
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