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Company ask me to make them an offer

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forestcity

Squeeker

Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: 10

Status: Offline

Posted: May 26, 2003 - 12:00 PM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

My company want\'s me to make them an offer on what it will take me to move to China(Wuxi) for one year.

Some of the things talked about already have been they will give me and my wife a car, Apartment, all living expenses and 3 trips home.

How much more then my U.S. wage should I ask for? Is there anything I am over looking?

fortune_nookie

Reacher

Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 295

Status: Offline

Posted: May 26, 2003 - 06:37 PM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

You did not say what position you are going to assume over here. If you are going to teach English at a local school then you are lucky to get plane tickets home. If you are a CEO then all things are possible. What value do you add to the organization and how many people are lined up to take your position and are they qualified?

Do you want to come here or do you have to?

These things will certainly affect your bargaining position.

Anyway...

Let them offer first, then go from there. They may give you more than you were going to ask for. Once that is over, no matter what they offer, ask for more. If they are smart, they will never offer you the most they have to offer; THAT is exactly why they want YOU to make up an offer. When you buy a car do you talk LIST price DOWN or INVOICE UP?

Are you going to be here \'legally\' on a work permit, or are you going to work here on a tourist visa? Don\'t be confused by the 6 month multi entry visa (type F versus Z) you are either here leagal or not there is no grey area. Remember if you have an apartment you need to register with the police within 24 hours of arrival.

Don\'t leave home without.....

TAX EQUALIZATION !!!! If you are here on a work permit. Rent / Car / utilities / per diem paid by the company are TAXABLE in the U.S. Get PWC to do your taxes or someone else that knows what they are doing.

Medical coverage (SIGMA is a good one) but also get S.O.S. ( if you get hit by a bus you call a # and they come get you and bring you somewhere that you will get good medical coverage, SIGMA will pay for the repairs to you & the bus but S.O.S. will get you to the hospital ! By helicopter is need be. CALL your local HMO and ask for that service some day. GET S.O.S. coverage.

http://www.internationalsos.com

CAR & Driver (not the magazine) you will probably NEVER drive here.

Per Diem (25 USD / day) as a cost of living allowance & \'hardship allowance\' That may be atough sell but unless there are people lined up to take your place at least try for it.

All utility bills paid including phone

Storage costs for the stuff you leave behind

Have them buy your house in the U.S.

20% of the difference between the blue book value of you car and what you actually have to sell it for. Cars are not exactly an investment and you may have to sell one or two and will lose money on it. Why should you lose money to caome here.

In Wuxi you may find English is not as common as it is here in Shanghai. You may want to get a tutor to teach you some basic Chinese.

Good luck, let us know if you do come over.

Steve

[Edited on 26/5/2003 by fortune_nookie]

cookie

Barker

Joined: Apr 19, 2003
Posts: 183

Status: Offline

Posted: May 26, 2003 - 07:20 PM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

Nookie! Cool advice...and now I\'m really glad I\'ve got that SOS too...

I definitely think you\'re right. Tax equalization! Hardship allowance! Car and driver! Food allowance...cost of Ayi. Got to ask or you don\'t get.

I remember some years ago, my company did the opposite. Sent me back to the US headquarters on a 6 month assignment. I became a reverse expat in my own country. ha ha. Asked for US 20,000 to get me settled into an apartment, they paid off my car loan I still had back home, business class tix and best of all...equalized my salary! ha ha ha. that was the hilarious part. getting my tax equalized in the US as a US citizen. Not bad for hiding out here in Shanghai huh?

Ask ask ask...the worst they can do is say no.

forestcity

Squeeker

Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: 10

Status: Offline

Posted: May 27, 2003 - 08:08 PM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

Thank you so much Steve that was a big help.

My company is moving a manufactoring operation over there. I am to train locals. As far as I know I am the only one interested in going. And I am very interested in going.

There are two of us going, one for 3 months for training locals on a certain kind of machine and me for a year on a different machine.

forestcity

Squeeker

Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: 10

Status: Offline

Posted: May 28, 2003 - 01:10 AM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

Some things I would like to know Steve is how you like China? What do you miss?

Some of my concerns, will Wuxi be too Provencal.That Shanghai will not be convenient. That my cultural life will suffer,i.e. symphony, lectures, concerts, and baseball.

[Edited on 27/5/2003 by forestcity]

nanar747

Raver

Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 407
Location: stamford,ct
Status: Offline

Posted: May 28, 2003 - 07:41 AM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

hello forestcity.

i am in changzhou now for 1 month and i can tell u what i miss most is english hahaahah

i am french and my girlfriend chinese. we speak english because she does not know french and my chinese is as limited as ( thank you, i love you and the numbers) so i miss very much english speaking peoples. even there is lot of foreigners here. if u look at the map lots of big foreign copmpanies here. the problem is u never see the foreigners they stay in their appartment buildings. most of them anyway. this is why i want to open a western bar/restaurant to have them come out a little. with sars now ( nothing declared in changzhou but peopels scared of it) it is hard.
as far as sports etc.................. i lived in the united states for more than 15 years and i love american sports. i get news from internet and espn but i do not have satelite dish yet so no live news or nothing onh tv i only relly on computer. no english newspapers, or very litle even wuxi this is not shanghai.
wuxi is very close to changzhou. like 1/2 hour by train or bus and it is in the new industrial area. this is
why i bought a house there soon it will be very good now still cheap for u the difference is u come to work
for a limited time. but it will change u from what u know in the states. if u like countryside no problems
even downtown is countryside. on the other hand u are close to shanghai too and it is easy to go there.
look at some website about the area and make up your mind yourself.
try the website \"askjeeves\" then enter \"china\" and it will find u almost anything u want about china.
this is almost the only think i can tell u so far about the area.
good luck.
from nanar747

_________________
nanar

Michael

Moderator

Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5305

Status: Offline

Posted: May 28, 2003 - 08:34 AM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

For the type of job you are doing.. if you get what you are making at home plus travel, moving, an living expenses, you should do pretty well. Perhaps a modest increase in salary while you have the opportunity to negotiate it. Good idea to asked for enough to maintain your house at home, if you own.. or at least store some of your stuff if you rent. Don\'t forget medical insurance.

One of the big expenses is for an international school for kids if you have kids.

If you have a car avaiilable, you should also ask for a driver. I am not sure what is available in Wuzi in terms of living arrangements. If you want to make the most of your experience, try not to live in a strictly western lifestyle.

Make sure you get some time off to go to Shanghai, Beijing, and other places.

It will be different.. but you have to take it as an adventure.

_________________
Life is make believe, make it up and then believe it.

TXMOM
Raver
Raver

Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: 445
Location: Shanghai

Posted: May 29, 2003 - 04:16 AM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

Great list fortune_nookie!

Forestcity -- A few other suggestions (This may all be a lot to ask for, but as cookie says, if you don\'t ask you can\'t get. Use your judgment on how much you feel comfortable asking for in light of your situation):

Instead of $25 per diem, if beneficial to you based on your salary, you could try asking for a hardship pay differential based on US State Dept. guidelines (I think it\'s currently 15% of your base pay for Shanghai assignments) plus a \"goods and services\" differential based on cost of living differentials computed by specialists in this area (Organization Resources Counselors or ORC is one such company). For a family of 4, the G&S differential for Shanghai is nearly $1900 per month!

If your wife is giving up her job to move with you as I am, you could try for spousal assistance of in the form of a lump sum payment (e.g., 5% of her annualized base pay).

If you have a house that you\'d want to return to after the assignment ends, because one year is such a short time, perhaps instead of asking the company to buy your house, they can cover the cost of a property management company to look after it.

You may want to ask for a lump sum to cover the costs of re-establishing your household in China (all the little things you\'ll have to buy that are impractical to bring with you, even if the place is furnished, to get your house set up: possibly new appliances, household cleaning supplies, etc.). Besides, some of the furnished places in Shanghai don\'t have great furniture and/or are minimally furnished, so you may find yourselves needing to supplement.

Finally, I don\'t know what services are available in Wuxi, but we\'ve found that the assistance of a good relocation consultant in Shanghai to be invaluable. They\'ve helped us find a school for the kids, housing (and took care of negotiations) and an English-speaking ENT doctor for our daughter. They also provided us with a notebook full of good info about living in Shanghai and did a city orientation for us -- showing us around town (supermarkets, expat medical center, etc.). If you can\'t get that (and even if you can), perhaps at least some cultural training for you and your wife to help ease some of the culture shock and make you a more effective employee in China.

Good luck!

forestcity

Squeeker

Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: 10

Status: Offline

Posted: May 29, 2003 - 06:58 AM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

Thank you so much TXMOM and all of you for your help. I hope I can find a relocation consultant for Wuxi. Being able to correspond with those whom this is also such a big decision helps me a great deal.

We are both excited and looking forward to our stay. We hope to meet new friends and experience and new culture.

PhatAV8r

Raver

Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Qingpu District, SHANGHAI
Status: Offline

Posted: June 12, 2003 - 07:22 AM
Post subject: Company ask me to make them an offer

Forest,

I am going to pass along these pearls to you, learned from three years in a little city two hours outside of Shanghai (similar to Wuxi).

First, get base salary and then 25% for hardship if you are living IN Wuxi. I say IF because you might consider keeping an apartment in Wuxi for yourself during the week. Your company could negotiate that with the Chinese company.

Then, you commute home early on Fridays. This will allow your family to deal with the culture shock a little better. Especially any children who will be short on friends in outlying towns like Wuxi.

Education wise, you will need to know that elementary school costs $12K US per child, and $20K per child for middle/high school in Shanghai. We homeschooled, but that might not be what you want for any older kids.

If you can talk them into it, the trips to Beijing, Hong Kong, etc should be on their dime as LOCAL R&R. You might want to negotiate a regional R&R to somewhere like Bangkok or Bali around spring break.

Sound like they need you there. Good luck, and be sure to hook up with people in Shanghai even if you don\'t decide to live here. The drive is worth the socialization. We used to commute each week for church.