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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Apr 04, 2006 - 06:33 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Question for Engineers EU vs China |
Here's a question for engineers and the like-minded:
Would you rather work in Shanghai in a dynamic growing market but only using existing technology to re-invent the wheel?
Or work in Europe (mid-sized German city) on cutting edge technology in an area that is in an economic slow-down?
Life in Shanghai and life in this German city are both nice in my opinion, but I can't decide what is the best career choice. To stick with the growing market but old technology, or to work on something new that might never make it to market.
What do you think? |
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travelinjack3
FooJay
Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 1710
Location: Right Bank
Status: Offline
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Apr 04, 2006 - 08:45 PM |
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I miss the logic and lack of cultural influence on engineering issues in the west. |
_________________
If the billy goat was Bootsie and the troll was Maceo, then only the Godfather of Soul can really take you to the bridge. |
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hammerforlife
Fire-eater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2701
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Apr 04, 2006 - 09:01 PM |
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Depends I think on how you want to progress your career. If you want to continue using your technical skills then maybe back in Europe would be best as otherwise you could find your skills become outdated here. If you are more management minded then working in China may give you the opportunity to have more responsibility than you could get in Europe. |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8730
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Apr 04, 2006 - 09:07 PM |
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I guess you are referring to a specific case (yours) and not in general. Maybe you should get other factors into the equation, such as if you have a family, the small German town would be a good option (environment etc), if you are single Shanghai etc. |
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That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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shanghaiceltic
Board Royalty
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 7588
Location: Perth WA
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 06:41 AM |
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Are you talking about engineering design. If so then I would say that you are more likely to do better in the west. From what I have seen over a 14 year period dealing with China there is plenty of reverse engineering and not much new work.
On the other side of the coin, engineering sales, this place has plenty of opportunities because many of the SOE's etc are in what I would call a re-developing phase. They now know they need to make certain types of engineering measurments to improve processes which before were ignored or the instruments they used are now considered not accurate enough.
Locally made industrial instrumentation is pretty basic at its best which means that there are good opportunities for imported technology.
I can only comment on the instrumentation field which is what I know best, but I get plenty of opportunity to see what it is being fitted to and that needs improvement too. |
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I have parrallel bars at home, one for gin and one for whiskey |
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rxg
Raver
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 446
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 08:34 AM |
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Engineering in China is not innovative! (in my field - Chemical Engineering). They copy everything from other countries. We bring all of our engineering technology from the US to China - and this is the only way we can sell our products to Expat companies and local companies alike. |
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bernie77
Reacher
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 227
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 09:11 AM |
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I guess the question you should ask yourself is where do you see your career going? Is it your ambition to be involved in cutting edge technology just for the engineering sake... are you a hardcore engineer? Then the choice would be easily Europe.
But if you consider yourself less of a hardcore engineer, and maybe intend to improve other skills like mgmt (assume you are more senior here; more staff) and more business development/strategy/sales, then maybe you should consider staying here. I guess personal development is easier in a dynamic environment, and Germany is definitely not dynamic.
I am officially an engineer, but considered myself so very non-hardcore and turned banker... happy with the choice  |
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ShanDF
Newbie
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 10:55 AM |
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The automotive industry is just exploding here and offers a really nice way of moving up the ladder. Due to the relatively low technology skill set here and the development time required to produce OE quality goods, consultancy could be a way forward.
I have only been in Shanghai for about 6 weeks, recently moved from Tokyo, and have been offered three different types of consultancy work based on trying to enter the OE direct sales market. Obviously reverse engineering is prevalent, but its the little things you can't see which require help. I work mainly in RF which I guess this is a big factor in the work I have been offered here but there are plenty of areas that can be exploited like this. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 11:31 AM |
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Thanks for everyone's advice. You all pretty much repeated what I was thinking by myself. In general I'm leaning towards the job in Germany to satisfy my inner technical soul, since I don't really care for the management role. Just for info, this is the automotive industry we are talking about.
But here's another question:
Ever since I started working for this company, I've been in basically the same field and same position. In Germany, they would probably continue to pidgeon hole me as "test engineer" and would not hire me for a process engineering job or a design job, even though I know the product well enough to design it or to see it produced. The opportunity I have now is to go back to Germany and work on a slightly different product but in the same job.
However in China, since often no one has any idea what they are doing anyway, it is much easier to change job positions and still be relatively effective (within the same industry). I have a different job opportunity if I stay here in China and it would let me work on a completely different product in a completely different role, but is not beyond my abilities. Therefore I would be learning alot of new technical savy, but still be working with "old" technology.
Like stated, I love life in Shanghai, but am equally happy in Germany. I'm an American, so I'd be a foreigner no matter where I go. And if you have heard anything about the automotive industry in the US, then you know why I'm not itching to go back to the states.
So as a "hard core" engineer, would you be happier and more marketable having done various different jobs in the same industry or to be a specialist in one niche of a cutting edge technology? |
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ShanDF
Newbie
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 12:53 PM |
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How cutting edge are we talking. N.B. VW are shipping 10,000 jobs to China and recently opened their new approval facility, I think near Beijing, to bring Chinese suppliers online more quickly. |
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MikeUK
Raver
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 422
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 01:42 PM |
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I have only a few years experience in software engineering, but all that time was spent in R&D for university and a company. So coming from a research perspective, I would say that China is a good place to be if you are involved in research (the goverment are ploughing lots of money in to technological R&D as it deos not want to rely on the west so much) especially as it means funding is perhaps more readily available. If you are just working for a typical company doing standard development, then maybe Europe has more to offer. |
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In a battle of wit, I won't fight an unarmed man. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 02:03 PM |
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| ShanDF wrote: |
| How cutting edge are we talking. N.B. VW are shipping 10,000 jobs to China and recently opened their new approval facility, I think near Beijing, to bring Chinese suppliers online more quickly. |
In Germany it would be with hybrid vehicles
In China possibly automotive electronics |
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bernie77
Reacher
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 227
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 02:35 PM |
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There is some value in becoming a specialist in this one field, but do you really want to be pidgeon holed for the rest of your life at a young age? The opportunity to acquire a new skill might not come so easy in Germany. In the end you have your current skill, and could also do the same job in Germany a few years down the road.
In the mean time just try to widen your scope and use the flexibility a SH job offers, i keep learning each day. In a few years you can make a switch to a possible more exciting field in Germany, with the new experience. My attitude is that you are more marketable if you learn new skills in a different product... especially if you are young and not itching yet for that retirement.
I say this all, assuming that this new position will also still be a hardcore techy job which you like but in a different field with slighly less sophistication. It seems that the design job is your ultimate goal as an engineer, so start working towards that goal whether this is in China or in Germany. And really who wants to life in Germany |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1042
Status: Offline
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Apr 05, 2006 - 07:21 PM |
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Thanks bernie, I never thought about it that way.
Neither offer is on paper yet, but if they do come and have similar compensation then I may do as you suggest and stay in Shanghai. |
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