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senorjay
Lurker
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 24
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 08, 2003 - 02:15 AM |
 
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| Post subject: American in distress |
are there any other americans out there that have to constantly put up with derogatory comments towards america? almost all chinese people assume i\'m american even before i open my mouth. nothing in my appearance shows that i am american, though that\'s their first assumption almost every time. after i divulge the fact that i am indeed american, 90 percent of the locals tell me how they don\'t approve of what we did in iraq and that they hate americans. i try not to get in arguments by telling them i\'m opposed to the war and that i\'ve been living in asia for 10 years and don\'t really partake in the patriotic endeavors of my nation though it never really helps the situation or change their attitude towards me. i do get irritated though sometimes especially after they tell me what a perfect country china is and how respectful everybody is here. at that point i have to stoop as low as them and bring up some of the issues that china faces, including human rights, the tiananmen square incident and the rampant prostitution, which is if you haven\'t looked around EVERYWHERE! the fact is is it is rude to be rude to an absolute stranger. we\'re all just trying to get through the day in own own way and i don\'t appreciate the intrusions. at least i don\'t have to listen to how much they hate japanese people anymore. if anyone out there wants to give me flack for being an american go ahead but i tell you you\'re after the wrong guy. |
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CADmaestro
Newbie
Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 5
Location: New York City
Status: Offline
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Sep 08, 2003 - 08:24 AM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
\"I do get irritated though sometimes especially after they tell me what a perfect country china is and how respectful everybody is here.\"
That\'s a crock of sheer ignorance right there. I give you credit for holding your cool and not fire back with any justifiable arguments (that\'s probably what they wanted anyway).
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Keeping an open mind for unexpected surprises! |
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Senator_Burns
Seeker
Joined: May 04, 2003
Posts: 55
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 08, 2003 - 08:40 AM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
Hmmm. For some reason, I don\'t really care that much. Just like when I\'m talking to strangers in the US and they say \"wow, you live in China!? Do you eat alot of Sushi?\" or \"I don\'t buy Chinese goods. Those commie bastards are just trying to put Americans out of work You traitor... (I\'m in trade adverts)\"
I guess in my perspective, there are ignorate assholes everywhere and, unless you are on a crusade to mold the world to your way of thinking, there isn\'t much point arguing with them. I\'ve tried to do it before and just finally gave up on being the \"ignorace cop.\"
If people chafe you, move on. There\'s lots of great people out there who won\'t.
Just one man\'s perspective.
Hon. Sen Burns |
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quasi
FooJay
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1776
Location: shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 12, 2003 - 08:14 PM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
senorjay:
hi i am a girl from china actaulll in shanghai yep i agree most chinese they not like americna coz they think u r aggressive and always pose ur noise everywhere thats y when the spe.11th accident happened in NY some ppl celebrated (not in china in othere country) it refelcts that u have called for disgust all around the world
but i also wanna tell u most ppl do not know hwo to judge it objectively
so it is not ur fault if ppl here curse u or talk about u just becoz of ur nationality just ignore need not to worry too much about it ok? |
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jrtk
Talker
Joined: Apr 30, 2003
Posts: 96
Location: New York, NY
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Sep 13, 2003 - 02:02 AM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
senorjay
As Senator_Burns said, "...there are ignorate assholes everywhere...".
I had same unpleasant experiences by encountering anti-American sentiment in France, Japan, and, of course, China.
On the other hand, Chinese people have showed their greatest hospitality (help) to me and my family& friends from America.
Let's just focus on bright side, we'll be much better-off. |
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quasi
FooJay
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1776
Location: shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 13, 2003 - 04:29 PM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
hey hmm i do not know y ppl r so rude to u even to ur family jrtk but i just wanna tell u the genenration like me will not judge individuals by his nationality we have reason maybe i do not like usa but i will not go to the extrem to say i hate every american so just cheer up and take it easy u will meet more objective and judicious ppl in shanghai ok? |
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Jimbo
Lurker
Joined: Mar 26, 2003
Posts: 23
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 13, 2003 - 05:17 PM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
Jay-
I've not had any problems at all so far, but I am mostly meeting people who are friends of friends. I've not heard a single bad comment about the U.S., even from people I have just met.
I'm sure there is anti-U.S. sentiment out there. I don't like some of the things in the U.S. myself, but please don't let it get to you. Keep your cool and just talk to people as people and they will see you as a person, not a nationality.
Good luck!
Jim |
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Jimbo |
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joburgent25shanghai
Seeker
Joined: June 13, 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Shanghai Parksonmall
Status: Offline
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Sep 13, 2003 - 06:27 PM |
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| Post subject: American in distress |
Jay, did you ever reliaze how hardcore anti-america it is in the big chinese city? did you know what happens(the impact to his career/security etc) if any natives say anything good of america? there are whole lot of people benefit from america free trade. But it is way RISKY to admit it living in the nationalist stronghold. hope this helps.
let's meet up and have some intelligent talk. a native chinese I am, I am always graceful to american friendship. Gee, without loving americans, i woundn't even afford moving to SH. Cheers. |
_________________
Conference/Seminar Telesalesman looking for carreer shift. Intership of MNC good. |
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senorjay
Lurker
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 24
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 21, 2003 - 11:25 PM |
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Don't get me wrong I know a lot of good people here. Last month I went out to Pu Tuo San for my 30th birthday and so it turned out it was one of the worst birthdays of my life. I thought it'd be nice to get away from all this industrious crap for a few days with my wife, to enjoy the serenity of a mostly Buddhist inhabited island, boy was I wrong. The morning of my birthday we went to one of the temples there and there was one of those "happy monks" who looked like someone I'd like to talk to. He asked me where I was from and I said "America" and his monk-self made his hands into a machine gun and acted like he was shooting me. I took it well, as I usually do, and left with the normal feeling I have from ignorant misinformed people like himself. A monk none-the-less. About an hour later we were in a shop on the beach looking for a beach towel, that's it just a beach towel, when the shop-owner asked me where I was from I told him and he told me he hated America and Americans. I said "hey have you been there? do you know many Americans?" but he was like "no but I don't like you anyways." His wife was there and she's like "China is good isn't it?" We are all good people and we are all considerate aren't we?" and I'm like "no you're not all considerate and you're not all good people" and I had to tell her how every other girl who lives near me ( I live in a highly dense whore infested compound) is a prostitute and it's sick and wrong." She mumbled something and blew it off like she didn't even hear it. The husband wanted me to admit how shallow and uncivilised "we" are because we don't have a 5000 year history. I just ended up leaving digusted just wanting to enjoy my 30th at the beach minus one beach towel. The **** really hit the fan at dinner. The boss of the over-priced seafood place came over to take our order and then asked me where I was from. I ain't going to lie to people that's all there is to it, though occasioally I do say I'm Italian because I do have Italian heritage, and in most cases we end up talking about the Italian soccer league and or leather shoes which I know nothing about, but it is good to not have to be berated for being an American sometimes. The ******* told me similar things to the towel guy and that was it. Not on my **** 30th birthday, not 3 times on vacation on a Buddhist inhabited island. I got pissed man. **** these people dude. Lame ignorant **** heads pardon my French. For my friends who can't speak Chinese they don't have to put up with this crap. Sure I can pretend I can't speak Chinese but isn't that lame? Hey I ain't trying to complain or get sympathy I just think it's lame that people can be so inconsiderate. Where ever you're from who ever you are just be cool please. |
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joburgent25shanghai
Seeker
Joined: June 13, 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Shanghai Parksonmall
Status: Offline
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Sep 22, 2003 - 09:10 PM |
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Hi, you had a good point. You acturaly SPeak the Chinese language. This gurantee you be the target of national blame. the people you met are pretty average people who live within five miles of the town. Their opinions are irrelevant at best. HOWever, the more scaring thing is tht many your fellow AMERICANs, those from California for example, dislike America so much so more than the rest group. Who to blame?! |
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yekknil
Seeker
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
Posts: 46
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2003 - 08:15 AM |
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too bad this kind of things happen.
many people when they act as if they hated america (and others for that matter), they don't really love china deep in their hearts.
also, how can people really hate something that they don't even know about? it's all pretending... |
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parkerfairfield
Ranter
Joined: July 10, 2002
Posts: 501
Location: SF Bay
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2003 - 05:03 PM |
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| senorjay wrote: |
| Don't get me wrong I know a lot of good people here. Last month I went out to Pu Tuo San for my 30th birthday and so it turned out it was one of the worst birthdays of my life. I thought it'd be nice to get away from all this industrious crap for a few days with my wife, to enjoy the serenity of a mostly Buddhist inhabited island, boy was I wrong. The morning of my birthday we went to one of the temples there and there was one of those "happy monks" who looked like someone I'd like to talk to. He asked me where I was from and I said "America" |
I sometimes enjoy saying different natios - just to see their reaction. Some favorites:
France - hey, most people here LOVE France as Chirac and Bush are such polar opposites according to the CCTV propaganda
Spain - fun to see what they say
ULUMUQI - one of my favorites ... as we get into conversations about how we whites in Ulumuqi think differently ... really stumps some older people
Canada - what bad thing can you say about Canada?
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and his monk-self made his hands into a machine gun and acted like he was shooting me. I took it well, as I usually do, and left with the normal feeling I have from ignorant misinformed people like himself.
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man, i rarely get this ... To be honest I would love to a) meet you b) be with you when you have people do this to you. Although I'd probably handle it differently.... like smile, and shoot back at him.
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A monk none-the-less. About an hour later we were in a shop on the beach looking for a beach towel, that's it just a beach towel, when the shop-owner asked me where I was from I told him and he told me he hated America and Americans. |
Here I'd definitely say I hate Americans too - talk awhile about how **** they are ... and then let out that I'm American too. Done this - and the average person is flabbergasted. Of course I usually wrap Mao into the conversation somehow - about how he was only "70% good" according to Deng, and how he helped kill 30,000,000 of his own citizenry - and then mention that not everyone from a country is good.
I really enjoy these kinds of conversations.
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| I said "hey have you been there? do you know many Americans?" but he was like "no but I don't like you anyways." |
Dude, you're killing me. I mean, I'm LOL thinking about the concept of debating with a brainwashed towel-renter at some beach side dump in the middle of PRC. <GRIN> YEah, fighting the good fight has to be done ... but ... <giggle>
I know you MUST know how brainwashed the average person is in PRC - they are just as brainwashed as the average 6pack Joe in the USA. The difference is that in the states one could ACTUALLY find the truth if they could get their fat arse off of the couch - or surf to like 10 different int'l news channels. Not that they would - as Playboy channel, HBO, and CNN are all the avg person needs (100% propaganda; every woman is a babe, every story has a happy ending, and such amazingly PRO-USA news)
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His wife was there and she's like "China is good isn't it?" We are all good people and we are all considerate aren't we?" and I'm like "no you're not all considerate and you're not all good people"
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I'd've started with pointing out how AMAZINGLY rude they were being by walking up to a visitor in their country and saying that they were the worst in the world. Hold up the mirror, and then ask them how they would ,like it; but it still wouldn't work.
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and I had to tell her how every other girl who lives near me ( I live in a highly dense whore infested compound) is a prostitute and it's sick and wrong."
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WOW - now that is seemingly a bit of a generalization -every OTHER girl? <giggle> Sounds like you could go in to business.
Seriously though, what's wrong with prostitution? I mean, it's not like they've got Pimps beating them if they don't bring home the bacon right?
Nor are they crack addicted sluts.
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She mumbled something and blew it off like she didn't even hear it. The husband wanted me to admit how shallow and uncivilised "we" are because we don't have a 5000 year history. |
Oh, GOD I'd pay money to be there. As if there is 1 single set of history for "China" going back 5000 years. And Mao is 30% bad.
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| I just ended up leaving digusted just wanting to enjoy my 30th at the beach minus one beach towel. The **** really hit the fan at dinner. The boss of the over-priced seafood place came over to take our order and then asked me where I was from. I ain't going to lie to people that's all there is to it, |
What's the big woop about telling someone your a Canuck? It's practically the USA anyway... and all of their best stars become American 'cuz they realize the follie in staying a Canadian <grin>
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though occasioally I do say I'm Italian because I do have Italian heritage, and in most cases we end up talking about the Italian soccer league and or leather shoes which I know nothing about, but it is good to not have to be berated for being an American sometimes. The ******* told me similar things to the towel guy and that was it. Not on my **** 30th birthday, not 3 times on vacation on a Buddhist inhabited island. I got pissed man. **** these people dude. Lame ignorant **** heads pardon my French. |
Nodding.
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| For my friends who can't speak Chinese they don't have to put up with this crap. Sure I can pretend I can't speak Chinese but isn't that lame? Hey I ain't trying to complain or get sympathy I just think it's lame that people can be so inconsiderate. Where ever you're from who ever you are just be cool please. |
Yeah... agreed - although this kind of makes me think of the popular definition of 'insanity' = 'repeating the same actions, expecting different results."
Feel like a coffee man? First one is on me. |
_________________
Check out my blog for an update -- www.ParkerFairfield.com/blog/ |
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psychodrew
Reacher
Joined: July 31, 2003
Posts: 236
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 26, 2003 - 10:00 PM |
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I just lie and tell people I am Canadian. I am ashamed of my country right now, anyway. A couple of my friends were accosted in the Kiwi bar a couple weeks ago by two FRENCH guys about the evil America and evil George Bush.
I have another friend who was recently asked by a cab driver where he was from. Just for fun, he replied. Wo shi yi la ke ren. (I am from Iraq). The driver just laughed. |
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marcus_guan
Talker
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 83
Location: shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 27, 2003 - 12:31 AM |
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ah i love peace, i love u all    lets make a peace wold  |
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queenmab
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 07, 2003
Posts: 3665
Status: Offline
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Sep 29, 2003 - 05:42 PM |
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i dont hate the US...
i hate ignorant people in general...
i hate ignorant chinese people who mistake Mexico with Moscow and ask if its really cold over where i live... or they think mexico is in africa... or when i go to the states and people think i weart sombreros and i ride donkeys to school everyday... and when i met this american blonde girl in Cancun, she thought Cancun was part of the states...
or when i went to france and sang "La Cucaracha", the french guys said, "oh thats a french song!!!"
or when i go to mexico and say im gonna live in china, theyr like ooohhh so you're gonna learn how to speak japanese!??!?!
or when im walking down the street, chinese people ask me if Im american... no... why do i have to be american just cuz i have bigger eyes!?!?!? IM FROM MEXICO... NOT MOSCOW... MEXICOOOO |
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okido
Rocker
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 667
Location: A planet called Earth
Status: Offline
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Sep 30, 2003 - 02:54 AM |
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I am from Taiwan. Bangkok is not our capital city. Although Thai food is delicious but we don't eat it everyday.
Queenmab: do you know any Mexican restaurant in Shanghai.
All: does anyone know any Spanish restuarant in Shanghai? |
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zang
Barker
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 179
Status: Offline
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Sep 30, 2003 - 04:34 PM |
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Hey queenmab, that was the funniest post ever, laughed my ass off. ok you might have been pissed off at the moment u heard these people say that but all in all it's just something to laugh about and tell your friends right. |
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senorjay
Lurker
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 24
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 03, 2003 - 02:14 PM |
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parkerfairfield, right on man. nice commentary there...sure would like to have ya there next time and see how you go about it. actually I guess if we are going to "choose" to live here than we have to make an effort to deal with these things. However lying and saying I'm from Canada or Iraq is just plain stupid and childish. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't go around saying I'm American in the Middle East right now, I don't have a death wish, but I'm not going to lie to people over here. Sure I'm not happy with the current administration, as most people aren't, but I'm not embarrased to be from America. I've been here a long time and when I got here it was fun to "change it up" throw out bogus comments, get a kick out of arousing people with abstract absurdity, but now I just don't care to arouse the masses anymore. If they're gonna be intentionally mean than why even bother? I just ran down for a couple packs of smokes and ran into some of the elderly neighbors. We just talked about the weather and their grandchildren. Stimulating? No. Comforting? Yes. They are the only people that I care to converse with these days. I mean it if it weren't for them I'd be really disappointed about this race altogether. The old people (over 70) are way cool here. They really know how to prepare for death. They get out and move their joints and just sit and contemplate life. They leave all the "opinions" to the juniors and are just happy to be still alive sitting in the social circle surrounded by family. The volume of their voice drops, the hand gestures subside and they become mellow, all around cool people. The Chinese elderly keep me here and give me hope. I truely believe the lazy-boy sitting, bingo playing, fat, lazy, living separate from the rest of the family old people of the West have a lot to learn from the elderly in Asia. I know all foreigners like to complain about being here but isn't that natural? After all we're living in a place that we can't call home. A lot of Chinese people get on this site and they think we are bagging on China because we have complaints about being here. How could we not? They get offended if we say something negative about China and tell us if we're not happy here we should go home. We all need to vent, all my friends do it, and in actual fact we all enjoy living here. The young Chinese, with their opinions and inability to take criticism, get on this expat site and try to debate with us, our gripes about being here, until they're blue in the face thinking they can relate to our feelings. They can't understand the fact that it's hard for a foreigner to live here, away from "home", and not complain about the diffenences in culture and the stuff we miss. Can't someone open an "open complaint forum" where we can just complain in peace without people getting offended and challenging our opinions? After all this is an expat site and we all need to vent sometimes. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17973
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 03, 2003 - 02:34 PM |
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Interesting perspective SenorJay. I , too, would like to be around when these things happen to you. I have been around for a few months, met and interacted with many locals, and have yet to run into many of these instances. I do understand and speak Chinese so I would understand if people were in fact commebnting about such things. |
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senorjay
Lurker
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 24
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 03, 2003 - 03:12 PM |
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Are you an American yu888? |
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okido
Rocker
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: 667
Location: A planet called Earth
Status: Offline
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Oct 03, 2003 - 05:40 PM |
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SenorJay, you just have to understand and forgive those people. China hs gone through so much ups and downs and cause the country be left behind in development and people in poverty until very recent. Chinese are proud people but the country has so little to make them feel proud of in the past decay regardless the fascinating speed of progress in material in the very recent years. Just like a human, every country has it's weak spot. China has too many that make it's people can not withstand any openion from either it's own people or foreigners. Let's all remember, when we have opinions, let's not generalize them. Let's make it specific. It takes special efforts and conscious, I know. But, when we are making efforts not to hurt others feelings, others will get the point and try not to hurt ours.
Speaking of 5000 years of histry... I am Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese and to me if the country and the people, including myself, does not learn from the vast treasure they are holding and become better, it's a shame rather than something to brag about. So, next time, when someone is bragging about this 5000 histry thing, ask him or her what he/she has learnt and how this 5000 histry makes him/her a better person than those who have only 200? |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Oct 03, 2003 - 06:00 PM |
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It cant be avoided Im afraid, but you have to realise some of them see the worst in americans, the arrogance, and the stupidity.
I have met quite a few americans, and basically ALOT of them have been stupid, ignorant, uneducatedly pro-war (as in they have told me the reaons why US should bomb iras is because of 9-11) they didnt know where the UK was, what the EU was, etc etc.
But luckily I have met some absolutely AWESOME US people, like the nicest people youll ever meet. But without the latter, the former would be my only experience. Howver, with most people they have had no experience, so they just take the opinion that society gives them.
" A lot of Chinese people get on this site and they think we are bagging on China because we have complaints about being here. How could we not?"
Hey Jay I couldnt agree with you more.
But I think you really can make a difference, if you meet more people they will see you just want to be polite and maybe little by little, more people will see a truth. The smallest steps make the biggest differences or as Confucious said "The longest journey starts with the smallest steps" so I think you can be a one who makes a difference in the Americans people see or are told about.
However, this will be hard while there are still the US (and UK) contingent who look at me like a sh*t because I didnt get out of the lift (elevator) in 1.5 seconds and bow to them on my way.
The people like the suited guy who spoke to me like I as an inconvenient sh*t when I walked into the Marriot to find out something.
The american girl I met in Spain who said she hated the Spanish (i was NOT happy)
So people cant help but generalize. But youre in a position to change it from the inside. |
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psychodrew
Reacher
Joined: July 31, 2003
Posts: 236
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 03, 2003 - 07:50 PM |
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Identifying myself as a Canadian or Iraqi is not childish (althought the Iraqi is a little playful) or stupid. Foreigners identify Americans with what they see--entertainment and politics. I identify with neither. I do not want the hassle of defending the behavior of a country whose values I do not share. Frankly, U.S. citizenship is little more than a passport to me right now. My friends who have lived here longer have insisted that there is a misconception among many Chinese that Americans are all rich. Given that misconception and the anti-American sentiment among many locals, many of my friends have found that merchants are more willing to bargain with non-American foreigners. I will continue to align myself with my friends to the north whose political culture and reputation are less rooted in materialism and hypocrisy. |
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senorjay
Lurker
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 24
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 03, 2003 - 11:18 PM |
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I agree, to live here without hassle it is best to just lie but for me I'm not going to. Call me someone who sticks to their principals or just someone who is not willing to walk around lying all day, any way you go about it we still have to subject ourselves to this crap. Other than the fact that the people don't offer me sufficient day to day stimulation, and they piss me off all the time, I'd say it's an alright place to live. I bought a nice apartment here (just from teaching English) and there are several other perks that make my life convenient.
There are many places in the States that aren't rooted in materialism and hypocrisy. Sounds like you don't come from one of them. You might want to travel around the States a bit before you decide to give up your citizenship. Northern California, the state of Washington, Alaska, or the big island of Hawaii would all be worth going to to meet other people with ideals against the norm. But feel free to "align" yourself after all you are "free". |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17973
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 04, 2003 - 05:24 AM |
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| senorjay wrote: |
| Are you an American yu888? |
yes. don't think i would have replied as such if i were not.
And, I agree with you on the principle of not lying. (not unless my life depended upon it I guess) No, I would not lie about my being American either, not to you, and not to those who ask here in China. I have run across the occasional ignoramous, but i guess I just take it upon myself to educate them (nicely of course) and it seems to work. I am sorry to hear that you have had to deal with more than the typical staring and such and do hope that you will find a suitable method to counter this, to your satisfaction as I can see it really does bug you. |
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