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What are these places like?

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Kublakhan

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Joined: Aug 14, 2006
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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 08:19 AM
Post subject: What are these places like?

hi, we are an Australian family with a 4 year old and a 1 year old coming over to Shanghai next week for our look-see. we are being taken to the following housing places and I am interested to hear the views of anyone who lives in/or is familiar with them and can offer an opinion or things to watch out for...all insight gratefully received! I should add that I prefer a house to an an apartment, hubby will be working at the Jinmao Tower, 4 year old will hopefully attend one of the British schools. We will have a car and driver, and we have a housing budget of $6000 US

Green Court
Royal Garden
Shimao Lakeside
Tomson Golf
Yanlord
Shimao riviera
Belle Woods
Tiziano
Trinity

horsemandk

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 09:02 AM

Green court is very nice with a lot of green area and I mean a lot. Besides that it's close to a shopping area where you can find Carrefour etc. (walking distance)

Royal Garden is also very nice but more expensive than Green Court.

Shimao Lakeside is beautiful (the area is not fully finished yet) and it's very close to Shimao Tower! You haver your own private elevator and nobody can get up without your approval (some of the apartments have 2 elevators - talk about chasing the kids in the elevator)

The other ones I don't know.

Another one you might consider is Season Villas at Huamu Lu (villas like back home) or Jin Qiao Villa, which is very close to Dulwich College and Carrefour in Jinqiao.

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benkloepfer

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 10:13 AM

Yanlord is probably the nicest and closest to the Jinmao tower. But I find that the rent is a little inflated. If the company is paying your entire rent then go for yanlord, but if its coming out of your pocket then I'd look somewhere else. Friends of ours live there and pay about 4000 USD a month for a 100m2 apartment. Our apartment in a neighboring complex to Yanlord is the same size and almost as nice as their apartment, but we only pay about 1000 USD a month. The difference is the grounds for Yanlord are wonderful. They have great areas for children to play (both inside and out) and two pools (inside and out), plus a restaurant, quickie mart, mini putting greens, tennis courts, etc... Its like you are on the grounds of a 5 star hotel.

Angie

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 11:49 AM

4000 USD for Yanlord is a rip-off! Try to make an arrangement with your employer that if you don't use all of your housing budget it will be paid out with your salary. Then tell your housing agent that your budget is 2000 USD and they will show you the same houses and flats!

matmat

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 11:53 AM

Housing budget : 6000 $ !!!

OMG, just give me 2000 $ as a salary and I'm one of the happiest guy in Shanghai....

Kublakhan

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 12:22 PM

thanks for your feedback. The company does pay it all but I doubt they would give us the difference if we chose something for less than the 6000. One of the reasons I'm not keen on an apartment is precisely because I want to avoid the feeling of being in a hotel so although the facilities sound great, my heart actually sinks a bit when I look at photos of those buildings. I guess i am used to the space and privacy of my own freestanding home and yard. we have never liked even semi-detached homes, let alone apartments. Obviously my husband likes the idea of somewhere close to work, but I pointed out to him that he has a 30 minute commute here anyway and we could choose apartment living close to his work here, but we don't - so why would we there if we don't have to? I'm keeping an open mind but my goal really is a house in the Jinqiao area. It will be interesting to see how reality measures up to what I have seen on the internet.

benkloepfer

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 12:39 PM

Be responsible. Get an apartment near your husbands work so he can walk or ride his bike in everyday. The last thing Shanghai needs is another car on the road. City life has its benefits. I've turned my back on the sub-urbs and never looked back.

matmat

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 01:29 PM

benkloepfer wrote:

Be responsible. Get an apartment near your husbands work so he can walk or ride his bike in everyday. The last thing Shanghai needs is another car on the road.

Totally agree Very Happy

CoffeeHawk_0
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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 01:40 PM

'Skyline' apartments has just finished and is right across the street from the Jinmao Tower and a golf driving range. The apartments are more luxurious than Shimao Riviera and Yanlord, but smaller. The compound is a little more upscale too. The Yanlord compound is the most 'kid friendly' and is the oldest complex of 3 I mentioned, the older apartments I saw there were too worn for my tastes. The new ones were fine and of the same scale as Shimao Riviera. Yanlord has a small advantage in being ~7 minutes closer to food/shopping/subway when walking.

ship

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 02:34 PM

a caveat - with Tomson (and Vizcaya) you deal with an individual landlord - every one of the half a dozen+ colleagues/friends I know that are leasing from an individual landlord seriously regret their choice and have moved/are trying to move into housing under a management company; it seems too many landlords are eager to "agree" with terms to get you to sign the lease then find ways to avoid upholding their end of the deal once the paperwork is signed and/or are uninterested in maintaining the property once occupied

many people locate with respect to their school choice and at your child's age you may find space availability an issue so suggest you put school search top on your things to do list

another consideration- "house life" here might not be the same as what you are coming from - mosquitos, heat, and daily schedules change the way people use their yards and with your budget you can afford some pretty nice apartments...

anyway - your look-see will be an overwhelming frenzy of information and choice - don't forget to take alot of pictures and make notes and don't forget to bring a tape measure...

good luck!

Kublakhan

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 02:37 PM

Ho! Ho! that's very funny re suggesting we keep another car off the road - hubby works for a car company and his whole raison de etre is to ensure more cars end up on the roads of Asia! (However, I do agree that is not necessarily a good thing judging by the look of the pollution and congestion there already). Do remember, though, the closer he is to work, the further my child has to travel to school, so its what we call swings and roundabouts on that one! Plus, if we choose carefully, he can take the train in, surely??? Errrrrm....I do note however that the replies I have had to my original post have so far kept talking about the apartments rather than the villas, including ones that we aren't being shown next week, or have challenged our environmental responsibility. If someone could reply to my actual query in light of what my preferences are and what the options are that we are being shown, that would be more helpful. thanks.

benkloepfer

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 03:15 PM

Perhaps I worded my post poorly, I'm not accusing you of being environmentally irresponsible. Our lifestyles dictate our impact on the environment and we can't completely change our lifestyles and be the same people anymore.

Anyway, you listed Yanlord and I give it a good rating. But Yanlord only has apartments so why did you bother to list it? Supposed there will be a sub-urb community of free standing houses that is called Yanlord but as far as I know it isn't open yet. Most of the major international schools have buses that come to Yanlord every morning and pick the kids up. So not driving is actually an option.

I'm in the automotive business too, but I'd like to think that the products my company is bringing to market help make the cars here to be cleaner and safer than they are now. Before long environmental protection will have a business side too. I hope your husband can clue into that with his business.

Kublakhan

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 03:19 PM

Thank you, though, Ship, for very constructive and useful advice which I appreciate. I had heard that somewhere under a management group would be better for the reasons you have indicated. We have appointments at various schools lined up in the first couple of days we are there and our consultant did advise us that this would be the best way to do it, with the home search in the last few days and orientation etc in between. i do realise I am unlikely to have a garden, as such, but I would find it a strange feeling to have people living above, below and next door to my home - too much like former college days which was fine then but not what I'm after now. However, as I did say earlier, we're keeping an open mind....

benkloepfer

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 03:19 PM

Good comment from Ship.

It may not matter for a child as young as yours, but depending on where you want to send him it could be quite difficult to get into one of those international schools. You may want to get a confirmed spot in a school before deciding where to live, because its not quite fair to force a long commute on your children.

Kublakhan

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 05:20 PM

I didn't list these places - they are the ones that the relocation consultant has lined up for us to look at. We specified that we were interested in villas and we also specified Jinqiao or the Century Park area so the fact that these other places are on the list reflects what the consultant wants to show us.

MinniMe

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 08:13 PM

We lived 4 yrs at Tomson Golf
+ large area, 2 playgrounds for kids, Cityshop (western food items), a "ok" foot massage place, golf driving range, and possibility to get Tomson Golf membership, because you live at the compound (for outsiders it's not possible), tennis courts, big indoor swimming pool, basket ball court
- very modest gym
- a lot of renovation work all the time => very noicy and they just started a new phase (this was one of the reasons we moved out)
- cars drive too fast at the compound, which makes it a little bit unsafe for kids to walk around
- mosquitos in the summertime Mad

-/+ Phases I - III, the houses are getting old, a lot of problems in them, don't get a house with an underground floor => mold problems
-/+ we had a private landlord, no problem what so ever, every problem was fixed very quickly
-/+ management is ok, they speak English, but not fluent

Shimao Riviera, lived here for 6 months now
+ new compound, nice appartments, great view, great clubhouse, great outdoor swimming pool, closer to Puxi side (next to Fuxing Lu tunnel), which makes a big difference if you go there a lot
+ private lift to your appartment
+/- we have a private landlord, no problems so far, every problem (there are always problems in this country) has been fixed very quickly
- they are building a new building at the compound, so don't get a appartment in a building next to it, the noice is bad
- the English level in the management office and of the reception girls is really not good, I manage better with my moderate Chinese than with my English

alphabet

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Posted: Oct 10, 2006 - 08:45 PM

From what you have written, you prefer a house over an apartment. This would probably be an easier transition for an Australian family given the housing situation there. Environmental issues aside, the company car and driver are provided and hence, commuting will not be a big issue for your husband. The children are young and given that their school will very likely be in Jinqiao, you would want to live in that vicinity so that the children's commute is kept to a minimum. Tomson Golf, Green Court, Seasons Villas, Shimao Lakeside and Vizcaya are all around there. I agree whole-heartedly with what Ship has said: it is far easier to deal with a corporate landlord or a management company than individual landlord. I know this from experience - both personal and friends'. There are some little things such as a leaking pipe or a broken light switch that will get fixed almost immediately by a corporate landlord/management company but which can be dragged out indefinitely by an individual landlord. This is compounded by the fact that there are quite a number of landlords who are not domiciled in Shanghai.

I would suggest that you settle on the school first and then find a house convenient to the school. And as Ship said, take notes, measurements and pictures when you go and view the houses. And if you make requests for changes, additions, etc., ask the company to put these in the lease agreement and insist that things go in before you actually shift in. Otherwise, things can both drag out and can also get messy if alterations are made after you have moved in.

Good luck and welcome to Shanghai!

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Kublakhan

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Posted: Oct 11, 2006 - 05:26 AM

Thanks alphabet and minime, they are both very helpful replies and very encouraging. I was hoping that we would be able to take plenty of photos to make discussions and decisions easier - hopefully there won't be any objections to us doing that. So far I am getting the impression that Tomson can be a bit of a hassle and that kind of "insider" info is just exactly what I am looking for when going into such a radically different lifestyle to what we are used to. Its all getting very exciting but a bit daunting too - this time next week we'll be there!

mem0998

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Posted: Oct 11, 2006 - 07:14 AM

Hi, I live in Vizcaya. I also was used to a lot of space...I had four acres at home in the US! But it's not been too hard to get used to. I have pretty flowers and shrubs in my yard, so it's fairly pretty, and I'm sure I could plant more if I wanted.

We have a landlord, but don't have much dealings with them. There is a management company here that we mostly deal with. But my understanding is that at least one of the new sections or possibly both, are going to be handled exclusively by the management company.

I'm sure there are horror stories about landlords, but so far I haven't run into any trouble.

We did not want to live in an apartment at all. This area is nice because you and your kids can ride your bikes around fairly easily. If they do go Dulwich, you could even ride or walk them to school. That's a big plus in my book.

Good luck with your decision!

alphabet

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Posted: Oct 11, 2006 - 07:57 AM

I live in an apartment myself but places like Seasons Villas will be willing to do things like sending utilities bills direct to your husband's office so that you don't have the hassle of either paying and claiming or even having to pass it onto whoever is responsible for paying in the office. Individual landlords will generally not accommodate such requests. I know that Seasons is also reasonably accommodating in making minor altreations and changing furniture, etc. since they have so many units and can just switch things around. And Dulwich is right next door to Seasons. One caveat though: it seems Seasons Villas increased their rents a few months back. Everyone I know who is in detached houses there now are paying closer to USD7,500.

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MinniMe

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Posted: Oct 12, 2006 - 09:18 AM

Utilities bills can always be included in the rent. That's what we've done, so you don't get any bills but landlord will take care of them.

Season's is getting very expensive Smile

, we found it too small (area) and too "clicked" as a compound, and not worth of the money. But, this is only my opinion, I know a lot of people who really do like living there, we found it too "expat like" compound.

The whole Jinqiao area is very good option if you have kids who go the school.

CharlotteW

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Posted: Oct 14, 2006 - 06:54 AM

Green Courts is great. Top floor apartments are really nice. They're 2 story & have good sized balcony - perfect for summer bbqs. The location is great with Dulwich College & Carrefore supermarket near by. There are a lot of English speaking families living here.

The advice to make your choice after youve found a school is good advice - as otherwise you can spend 2 - 3 hours a day doing the school run!

A minor bit of advice that we've learned from friends is to avoid any villas/apartments that are tiled with lots of marble etc. They look lovely but are really hard to keep warm during winter.

Last edited by CharlotteW on Oct 14, 2006 - 06:59 AM; edited 1 time in total

GC
The Ginger Prince

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Posted: Oct 14, 2006 - 06:58 AM

After watching the TV tonight, Thames Town is the place for me.

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HK2ShviaUSA

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Posted: Oct 27, 2006 - 08:35 PM

I am relatively new here too. Here's what I know....correct me if I'm wrong.

JinQiao: High prices, might have problems getting a good place for $6K, close to grocery shopping and some restaurants. Dulwich, Concordia nearby.
Green Court - apartments. Guessing furniture varying.
Royal Garden - one owner. Small rooms. Very traditional furniture. The places that are 340sqm are nicer but still smallish rooms. Nice common grounds. smaller compound. Prices are low in the very low 5K. Possible mold issues/water leaking.
Shimao Lakeside - 2-4 apartment in low rise building or aparments - a few individual houses, but I'd imagine $$$$$. If you are at the low rises, there's no place to ride your bike, play right outside your house. Mold issues also. There is playground/walking area near the apartments.
Tomson Golf - most villas in your price range (and they also have apt) tend to be 300sqm, 3 floors. which if you calc is only 100sqm per floor. usually 3 rooms. I have younger kids and hate too many floors. I also may/maynot be then sleeping on the same floor as the kids. I think it was usually 2 bdrm per floor for the top 2 floors.
Try Greenhills...they might have some smaller, older houses.
Seasons - Townhouses in your price range. kid friendly. good shuttle bus service.

By JinMao, apartments
Yanlord
Shimao riviera

South pudong - Villa prices more reasonable, can definitely get a house for $6K. Closer to SCIS and British school.
Belle Woods
Tiziano
Trinity

I'm assuming that since hubby works for car industry, you guys would have a car....I picked car and less expensive house over pricey house and no car.