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Landlord Nightmare

Shanghai Expat Forum Index » Hot Topics Forums » Visas, Taxes, and Legalities

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kappakai

Raver

Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417

Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 02, 2007 - 12:36 PM
Post subject: Landlord Nightmare

hello all:

having some issues with my old landlord.

background:

i had a one year lease signed that expired end of october. i extended the lease month to month and moved out december 11th.

issue:

the landlord has decided to withhold returning my two month deposit. her claim is that since i stayed one day over november 30th, i owe her for the month of december. and because i haven't returned the keys as of yet, she is withholding one more for january (she claims i came up with this idea, and she has me saying so on tape. she doesn't.) however, we notified her on december 12th to get the keys, and her agent never came to get the keys. the agent came by on jan 1st, and then said we were missing a laundry rack, a phone, and two chairs from the dining room.

the landlord had also provided 4000RMB to buy additional furniture, including curtains, a bookshelf, an office desk and a futon.

question:

the way i see it, and the contract states, i should not have paid full rent for the month of december. rather, there is a clause that says i should pay something like 2RMB per sq. meter per day for each day over the end of the lease. also, i don't feel the landlord has right to completely withhold all of my second month deposit for a phone, two dining chairs and a laundry rack. my rent is $1100 (USD).

so, my agent says now that because the landlord broke her side of the agreement, i'm legally within right to break the terms i agreed to. in other words, i can go in and take the provided tv's, furniture, beds, and other items. i personally don't want to do this, but it has gotten to such a point, that i'll be willing to comtemplate opening all her doors and windows, taking the furniture, and perhaps having a bbq in the bedroom. i kid. but seriously, short of taking her to court, what repercusions and options do i have against a landlord that refuses to return my deposit?

i hear this is pretty typical in shanghai. the way i see it, regardless of what the contract says, she never had any intention of returning my deposit. so, legally, what can i do? and on a more devious note, how can i get back at the **** without landing myself in hot water?

appreciate the help.

underh20
Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9641
Location: EOA Seminar

Posted: Jan 02, 2007 - 11:27 PM

Possession is 9/10 of the law. Move back into the house until she stops acting like a bit.ch.

If you really did lose the phone and other items and there is a signed inventory showing these items even existed in the first place, you should be able to go and buy comparable items and replace the items that you lost.

It is typical in Shanghai for landlords to try to scam you out of the security deposit. Maybe others have discovered different methods for solving these problems, but I think fighting fire with fire is the best course of action to take when dealing with people from Shanghai.

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yu888
Board Deity

Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 17971
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH

Posted: Jan 03, 2007 - 01:22 AM

Consult a lawyer. That's probably what i would go ahead and do , even while dealing with the situation. there are probably legal ways to take care of ths that will force the landlord to reliquish. While the comments about this being typical, it is really only typical to hear about the bad cases and unfortuantely you are in one. tend to agree with the fight fire with fire part though if she is being such a Biatch. Only advise is to document everything in the future, starting with taking photos of the place when you first move into a place.

Good luck.

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Memphisto

Newbie

Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 3

Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 12:24 AM
Post subject: deposit claim back

Hi,

this is the best way to get back deposit: Do not pay the last one or two months of your stay in the apartment (try to pay only one month deposit when you make contract, not two). Consider the deposit you have paid as the rent for those last month(s).
Move out some days earlier than contract ends and you have agreed with them. Send the keys to landlord by EMS or hand over to the agent. By this way you will avoid discussions if something is damaged... Do not provide your new address to them.
This is the Chinese way to avoid such problems!

Else wise such problems and negotiations are very common. Easy way is to forget about the money and take out as much as you can from the apartment. Do not pay management fees and cancel auto pay of telephone, gas, power etc.

Of course you can hire lawyer if you are willing to take all the hassles. Make sure you have evidences (pictures, witnesses, written documents, ...) and you will win the case and sooner or later get back the money...
Cost for the lawyer in China is always on your account - no matter if you win or loose the case.

Good luck!

underh20
Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9641
Location: EOA Seminar

Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 06:33 AM

1. Chinese legal system will take you a very long time to navigate and, if you win, you might still never collect the money.

2. If you are even one day late in paying the rent the landlord can perform a summary eviction in 10 minutes. It most certainly isn't like the US where you need a court order and a 90-day eviction period.

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kappakai

Raver

Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417

Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 12:14 PM

hey all,

thanks for the replies. i think we're all thinking along the same lines. my agent is really good, and her husband is a shanghainese lawyer, and their advice has pretty much in line with what you all have said.

the legal process is time consuming and expensive. from what i've been told, if i go ahead and sue for my deposit, i have to take on the legal costs irregardless. if she sues me, then she has to take on the costs. mediation would be the suggested course of action. besides, my own documentation is shaky (no pictures, no signing off on given furniture, etc.) however, any mediator or judge would laugh in my landlord's face if she were to take 2 months of deposit for a few chairs and a phone.

i don't think she ever had any intention of returning the deposit. my agent told me my apartment was back on the market at a higher price back in september before i even moved out. i ended up moving out december 12th. so, unfortunately, i'm pass the point where i can say, just take the two months deposit as payment.

in any case, i'm taking my futon back dammit. and what happens to the rest of her stuff? well, that's out of my hands. and her keys? well yah, i returned them to my agent.

the thing is, my landlord knows she's screwed. she can't rent the place out, rent in the complex is dropping, and she's losing money on it. she's just digging herself deeper into the hole now. on top of that, she got foreign citizenship, but purchased the apartment as a chinese citizen. and she hasn't paid her property taxes. she really doesn't want to get into a legal fight with me, but i don't want to bring this to court either. not worth $2700. so she's got a week to really give it some thought. otherwise, some orphans are going to get some nice new sony tv's, furniture, beds, and a whirlpool microwave platter (that was my agent's idea, she says it's a bitch to have those replaced.)

yuyu

Reacher

Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 216

Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 03:38 PM

well, there is a easy way. ask for a lawyer, write an lawyer letter. i wont cause a lot. but it will work. i am sure that your landlord will return deposit to you within one week after she gets the letter.

dlaw

Raver

Joined: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 06:03 PM

are they that bad?? geez... now I am getting worried about my 2 months deposit... dontknow

can there be more honest landlords in this city? Sigh!

kappakai

Raver

Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 417

Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 11:23 PM

hey yuyu-

we thought about getting a lawyer, but as others have said the process is too long and arduous a process to be worth two months rent. i'm not looking to take on other costs to get the deposit back. yah, it's about principle, but you can't get rational with an irrational person.

dlaw-

i hope they're not all that bad. i've got two months on my current place too!! my agent tells me this is the worst she's ever seen. like others have said, document everything clearly, take pictures, get witnesses, do what you have to do to prevent yourself from getting in a situation like this. this one is seriously insane though. she says its not about the money, but rather it's about that she can't get over the fact that i would want to move out of her place. what sane person would want to move out of her place? it's utterly ridiculous! yah... that's what she told my agent.

dlaw

Raver

Joined: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 05, 2007 - 10:03 AM

Haha, you made her sounds a bit crazy to me... like the physcho movie Norman and his mom... ....... (if u know that movie)

kenkingdotcom

Reacher

Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Posts: 295
Location: No Longer Shanghai'd
Status: Offline

Posted: Jan 08, 2007 - 10:40 AM

kappakai wrote:

she says its not about the money, but rather it's about that she can't get over the fact that i would want to move out of her place. what sane person would want to move out of her place? it's utterly ridiculous! yah... that's what she told my agent.

I would just claim insanity then... Shocked