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NCD22
Reacher
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 209
Location: Shanghai, PRC
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Jan 11, 2008 - 05:04 PM |
 
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Still reveling in the fact that this thread seemingly will go on forever...Perhaps even when I am long gone and far away...
But it is interesting that KELLA's point brings up an old axiom from Timothy Leary, goes something like this:
All suffering is caused by being in the wrong place. To end suffering, MOVE!
Goes great with the quote by Douglas Adams:
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
And who can forget the late Adam's classic utterance:
The problem with a foolproof plan is understimating the capacity of utter fools
So, if you don't like it here that much, get the hell outta dodge. If you are thinking of coming here and are worried about it, learn from posters here and either a) don't come, b) be prepared to get robbed, cheated and totally annoyed by just about everything, or c) be one of the rare few that assimilate and think that it is all just dandy... And the last quote's relevance? Well, don't trust anyone to do anything, no matter how easy it may be, and if something is actually important, best to do it yourself because people can sometimes bungle a salad fight if left to their own devices...
Have a good one ya'll the weekend awaits! |
_________________
 ››NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE REAL THING‹‹ |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18037
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Jan 11, 2008 - 05:52 PM |
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NCD22
Reacher
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 209
Location: Shanghai, PRC
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2008 - 05:57 PM |
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Argh! The dreaded 'MOVED'! Oh well, guess it was too good to be true... |
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››NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE REAL THING‹‹ |
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underh20
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9887
Location: EOA Seminar
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Jan 11, 2008 - 07:35 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| KELLA wrote: |
| nobody stay here if they dont like it except those who want to punish themselves. |
Obviously your Ignorance has no bounds.
你真有这么呆吗？？还是你英文不够好？
（are you really this ignorant or is it just your English is poor, and so we are misunderstanding?) |
Yu, please don't underestimate just how stupid some people -- like Kella -- can be. |
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بارك الله ، بارك الله |
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underh20
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9887
Location: EOA Seminar
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Jan 11, 2008 - 07:40 PM |
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| NCD22 wrote: |
| I don't know...There aren't too many Nobel Prize winners running around the globe, neither are there that many Fortune 500 CEO's and Presidents...1 in 2000 is still freakishly difficult, but that would apply to the Chinese getting a US green card, not the other way around...Besides, look at how many locals marry Americans and go home with them...Even if you marry a local Chinese they don't fork over a green card and it certainly doesn't help you get a Z visa/residence permit... |
There are slightly more than 300 PRC green card holders in China out of a total expat population of, say, 600,000. |
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بارك الله ، بارك الله |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2008 - 09:59 PM |
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Where did you get the number 300 green card holders in China. I was under the impression there are more. |
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Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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underh20
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9887
Location: EOA Seminar
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Jan 11, 2008 - 10:10 PM |
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| SnappySammy wrote: |
| Where did you get the number 300 green card holders in China. I was under the impression there are more. |
There are, actually, under 750, but only 450 people had to actually apply for the card and go through the approval process.
Approximately 300 were already defacto permanent residents with various types of honorary citizenship or resettlement certificates that were automatically replaced with green cards once the program was implemented.
Of the 450 who applied, less than 300 are legitimate foreigners with all the others being Mainlanders who have returned after having immigrated to Canada, Australia or the likes. |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3777
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2008 - 10:26 PM |
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| underh20 wrote: |
| There are, actually, under 750, but only 450 people had to actually apply for the card and go through the approval process. |
I'm kind of wondering why anyone would want to ? |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2008 - 01:39 AM |
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| underh20 wrote: |
| SnappySammy wrote: |
| Where did you get the number 300 green card holders in China. I was under the impression there are more. |
There are, actually, under 750, but only 450 people had to actually apply for the card and go through the approval process.
Approximately 300 were already defacto permanent residents with various types of honorary citizenship or resettlement certificates that were automatically replaced with green cards once the program was implemented.
Of the 450 who applied, less than 300 are legitimate foreigners with all the others being Mainlanders who have returned after having immigrated to Canada, Australia or the likes. |
Thank You. a green card would be nice to have |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2008 - 09:19 PM |
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Lot of activity on this thread, since I last checked in.
Some great posts, like:
| p1atl10 wrote: |
Yes we are guests. No argument there.
But I also pay 40% Income tax to the Chinese Government, do more to support the Chinese economy in terms of consumer spending than 99% of the Chinese citizens, and drop about USD $50,000 a year on the Air Transport and Hotel Industry for my business travel. My job is to help support and grow a Chinese registered diviion of my MNC....which employs about 5,000 Chinese citizens, and has annual revenues in excess of USD$1 Billion. Profits on which are taxed also of course.
And for this I do get treated at times quite rudely and like I do not belong here.
Which is fine....does not bother me.
And I try to always be unfailingly polite to ALL people no matter what the situation.
I like it here, I enjoy my job here, enjoy working with my Chinese colleaques...and will stay as long as they let me.
At times there seems to be a bit of "LaoWai" go home sentiment even on this board.
We may be guests....but a little consideration for the value we bring in that role would be an enexpected pleasure some days when I have been made to feel like an "unwanted" guest.
(Do not expect that to happen anytime soon though!  ) |
Know how you feel.
Get some of the same misunderstood resentment, too.
Hopefully, those that work with you (or for you) feel otherwise.
Yes, we are guests, but not in the sense of someone invited to be entertained.
We are "guest workers," or as they say in Singapore, "fo-reign ta-lent."
Yes, we pay a disproportionate amount of taxes, but then again if you're paying high taxes they are being calculated based on significant income. Seems that China has learned well from the US how to apply progressive taxation.
Yes, we are allowed in to provide economic benefit to China.
By the way, the discussion about obtaining green cards in the US was totally off-base.
One must have a green card in the US just to work.
This is not necessary in China (i.e. these are different situations).
It is much easier for some from the US or Europe to obtain an employment pass (Z visa) than someone from Asia to obtain a green card in the US.
Getting back to being "guest workers," so, what else do we provide?
Is this passive payment of taxes our only contribution?
I suspect you are a bit humble and are also teaching your proteges "how to fish" and passing on your knowledge and experience and in the process hopefully sharing some values that will make the society better. There are others doing things on a grander scale (they get to become permanent residents).
There are already more than enough people in China.
As the saying goes, 中国人多。
If we are to be welcome in China, we should do our part. |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3777
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2008 - 09:25 PM |
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| maneo wrote: |
By the way, the discussion about obtaining green cards in the US was totally off-base.
One must have a green card in the US just to work.
This is not necessary in China (i.e. these are different situations).
It is much easier for some from the US or Europe to obtain an employment pass (Z visa) than someone from Asia to obtain a green card in the US. |
You could be dangerous if you had even the tiniest clue. It is not necessary to have a green card to work in the United States. There are several visas specifically for foreign workers.
Bozo. |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 12, 2008 - 09:33 PM |
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| NCD22 wrote: |
| If you are thinking of coming here and are worried about it, learn from posters here and either a) don't come, b) be prepared to get robbed, cheated and totally annoyed by just about everything, or c) be one of the rare few that assimilate and think that it is all just dandy... |
For those learning from the posters here, I think there is a fourth choice, between (b) and (c).
One need not feel that all is dandy, but in realizing one's position at least understand that adapting will be necessary as the many here will not be adapting to you.
For those already in China, you made a choice to come.
If you fit in category (b) and feel you made the wrong choice, time to move. It is your choice -- "make do" here or figure out a way to "make do" back home. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 13, 2008 - 08:10 AM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
| underh20 wrote: |
| There are, actually, under 750, but only 450 people had to actually apply for the card and go through the approval process. |
I'm kind of wondering why anyone would want to ? |
A chinese green card would be great. Thney are good for ten years. you don't need a Visa. You can travel in China without your passport. Can change money without passport.
If you live here why would'nt you want a Green Card |
Last edited by SnappySammy on Jan 13, 2008 - 10:02 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3777
Status: Offline
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Jan 13, 2008 - 02:00 PM |
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| SnappySammy wrote: |
| If you live here why would'nt you want a Green Card |
One reason off the top of my head would be that you would then be considered a resident and subject to Chinese taxation on your income worldwide. |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 13, 2008 - 04:57 PM |
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| Froginwell wrote: |
| woaishanghai07 wrote: |
Well that's cool.
I suppose at the end of the day the east is the east and the west is the west, that's just the way things are in China. Chinese coming over to England must have big problems with how rude people are and how much they love to drink and how lazy they are and so many other things too.
I'm in England at the moment and planning on going back to China soon, if I didn't like China then I wouldn't go back, but these things are gonna piss me off and you'll probably see quite a few angry posts from me in the future complaining about the Chinese, but yeah it's just my way of venting. |
I am Chinese, one of the kind that you dislike. England is one of the major territory for our business, and I can tell you we have been cheated or lied to most by the English customers. Once, after they received 6 containers from us, they wanted to put in a claim of ₤8000 for re-boxing as according to them, the pallets crushed and all the boxes were broken. We asked for pictures to show the damage, and finally they admitted there were only 16 boxes (out of 2000) were broken. Another customer wanted to claim us based on labour ₤300/hr, and do you know any worker in England that makes that much? I can give you another 100 or more similar stories if you are interested. My point is such thing happens everywhere in the world... the only difference is if it happens in China, you call it CHEATING, and if it happens in the west, you call it BUSINESS SKILLS.
Don't give me wrong - I don't dislike the English at all. In fact, my best friend is one of my English customers, who has been doing the offshore purchase from China for a few years. During every trip to Shanghai, he tries hard to learn the culture and business manners here, to make friends with the people he needs to deal with, and of course he has been rewarded with the maximum help from all of us to make his (and his company's) business activity more successful!!!
For whatever reason that you come to China, there should be some motivation. Show the reasonable amount of respect to the local and be more friendly and tolarent will only benefit yourself. Most of the Chinese wouldn't be rude unless they were insulted. |
I'm sorry I offended you. I have my fair share of complaints about English people aswell. China is a bit of a frustrating place to live for a westerner, just as England is a frustrating place to live for a Chinese person. The difference in cultures is something that is sometimes quite hard to adjust to and understand and it becomes frustrating. Although I'm not living in China at the moment I do still like to moan about some negative experiences I've had with some Chinese people, just like I like to moan to my friends about some negative experiences I've had with English people. Moaning is just something I do, but if moaning on here is going to offend Chinese people then I guess I shouldn't do it so I am sorry.
And if you want to start up a thread about how rude the westerners are in China then go ahead, I think there'd be plenty of contributions. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 13, 2008 - 10:00 PM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
| SnappySammy wrote: |
| If you live here why would'nt you want a Green Card |
One reason off the top of my head would be that you would then be considered a resident and subject to Chinese taxation on your income worldwide. |
I don't want to discuss taxes, but your wrong. |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:51 AM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
| maneo wrote: |
By the way, the discussion about obtaining green cards in the US was totally off-base.
One must have a green card in the US just to work.
This is not necessary in China (i.e. these are different situations).
It is much easier for some from the US or Europe to obtain an employment pass (Z visa) than someone from Asia to obtain a green card in the US. |
You could be dangerous if you had even the tiniest clue. It is not necessary to have a green card to work in the United States. There are several visas specifically for foreign workers.
Bozo. |
Ah, the ever so courteous lazy tiger.
So, I generalized a bit.
Yes, there are special visa categories, closest in relevance being H1B and L1 visas (never mind the E2 "buy-my-way-into-the-USA" primary investor visa).
Employers apply for the H1B visa for those in "core Specialty Occupations" (e.g. IT, Finance, Accounting, Banking, Engineering, HealthCare/Medical, etc.). Used to be that employers also had to somehow show that no qualified Americans were willing or able to take the job and it was subject to annual caps.
L1 visas are for certain employees of international companies (L1A for executives & managers, L1B for workers with "specialized knowledge"). Hmm. Just like some expats that come to China, except that China doesn't require them to go back for at least a year after 5 (or 7 years).
These special categories require hoop jumping and the point was that it's not any easier for Chinese to get to work and live in the US than it is for foreigners to get employment passes to work and live in China.
Some poster (still blowing bubbles I think) brought up the green card issue to bitch about unfairness. However, as you point out, there may be economic reasons not to get permanent residence in China (e.g. being taxed on worldwide income, just like the US does), so this really was pointless to bring up in the first place.
Would think a Chinese green card would only be desirable for someone wanting to retire in China.
What a thought. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:50 PM |
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| leidelaohu wrote: |
| maneo wrote: |
By the way, the discussion about obtaining green cards in the US was totally off-base.
One must have a green card in the US just to work.
This is not necessary in China (i.e. these are different situations).
It is much easier for some from the US or Europe to obtain an employment pass (Z visa) than someone from Asia to obtain a green card in the US. |
You could be dangerous if you had even the tiniest clue. It is not necessary to have a green card to work in the United States. There are several visas specifically for foreign workers.
Bozo. |
Is Bozo your given name or your family name? |
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warhistorysleeps
Seeker
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 46
Location: underconstruction
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:43 AM |
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"Is Bozo your given name or your family name?" shocking |
_________________
I sincerely vow to serve my country,do japanese steal my money symbol? |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2008 - 01:12 AM |
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| warhistorysleeps wrote: |
| "Is Bozo your given name or your family name?" shocking |
Go **** yourself ******* |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3777
Status: Offline
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Jan 16, 2008 - 01:37 AM |
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| SnappySammy wrote: |
| Is Bozo your given name or your family name? |
Both - kinda like Satan, Lucifer, Prince .... |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 17, 2008 - 12:05 AM |
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ah so you should Be BOZO 666 |
_________________
Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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bougie
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Posts: 13323
Location: Wuhan Hubei China
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Jan 17, 2008 - 06:36 AM |
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Gazza
Raver
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Posts: 398
Location: The Tokyo Slums
Status: Offline
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Jan 17, 2008 - 07:45 PM |
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When I was living in Guangzhou I had a three metre fish tank built in my office. The guy who built it also supplied me with fish which he chose. I started with 80 fish. Two of the big ones killed 10 of the others in 24 hours. The guy took them out. Over the next two weeks four of the fish were getting had not eaten the food he gave me and were getting thinner and thinner. I asked him why they weren't eating and he said it was because they only ate live bloodworms. I asked him why he didn't tell me this and he said it was because I didn't ask. I finally bought some bloodworms for them and they began to improve but the other fish started to get sick. When I asked him why, he said that the bloodworms have little hooks on them that make the other fish's stomaches bleed. I asked him to take away the bloodworm eaters and replace them and the ones that had initially died. He refused and said that I just asked him to buy him some fish and that I didn't specify what kind I wanted. I told him to piss off. Two months later I walked in one morning and my office floor was covered with water and dead fish. The glass sealant had broken and the tank had collapsed outward. I rang the guy to complain and he told me that it was not his responsibility because he had not made the tank, he had a contactor do it. |
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rick_SH
Reacher
Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Shaghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 17, 2008 - 09:44 PM |
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The locals are just angry because all the hottest wealthiest chinese women want to marry foreigners |
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