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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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May 23, 2007 - 01:09 PM |
 
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LOL, great stories! Seems like we've all got a barrowload.
I bought a 'new' Playstation2 a while back, only to find that it's controllers (and the machine itself, I suspect) was used. I went back to the shop to get the mis-firing and scratched to hell controllers changed, to while the guy point blank stated that they were not used, but brand new. And so we went around in circles for 30 minutes (him trying his best to ignore me most of the time), the best I got out of him were two better used controllers. Still, the stupid **** lost a few other big sales as I warned everyone else who came to the shop that he was a cheat 
This kind of point-blank denial in the face of the undeniable is kinda shocking at first, but now I'm used to it. Reminds me of the classic Blackadder episode where he talks about the lawyer, Mattingburg:
"I remember Mattingburg's most famous case, the case of the bloody knife. A man was found next to a murdured body, he had the knife in his hand, thirteen witnesses that seen him stab the victim, when the police
arrived he said, "I'm glad I killed the bastard." Mattingburg not only got him off, but he got him knighted in the New Year's Honors list, and the relatives of the victim had to pay to have the blood washed out of his jacket."
Ah China, the land of harmony. One day they'll all get their comeuppance. |
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| wwzcsd wrote: |
| We have NO racialism in China. Racialism was born in western.Your culture produced it.In Chinese Culture,we dont discriminate any race and nation. |
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answerer
Raver
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Posts: 453
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 24, 2007 - 12:02 AM |
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A lot of the times, you just have to complain loudly enough and high up enough to get something done correctly in Shanghai. There's a real lack of professional ethics here because a whole generation and a half were brought up in state-run enterprises. You get paid to be there, not to do any real work. If anyone complains, tell them something to make them go away and hope they give up or that you won't be there when they return.
If you've seen the people building the apartments here in Shanghai, you'd understand why the repairmen don't know jack. Basically, they take any country bumpkin off the street, show him a few things and that's it.
People will do almost anything if they think they can get away with it. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 06, 2008 - 12:29 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: When will it ever change? |
| NCD22 wrote: |
So, you think that after 5 years of living here I would have learned my lesson, but in just the last two weeks I have gotten bent over the metaphorical barrel and spanked in near legendary fashion. Guess if you let your guard down for a second, WHAM! it'll hit you that people here don't play by any rules...
First was when I went to the diet clinic with my wife (Sau San Tong in Central Plaza) with the intention of buying her a diet program (ya get fat in China! must be all the oil), one where they bring you food throughout the week along with supplements and herbs. All was going well until AFTER (of course) we had paid the initial deposit, gone in for TWO checkups and finally were about to start when we find out that the program that we had signed up for was not what they were giving us. Instead they wanted to only give her small packets of rotten tasting Chinese medicine and "coaching" on how to eat (at the same astronomical price!). To make a long story short, they lied, cheated, stole and in the end refused to change the plan or refund the money (these services ain't cheap). They played the classic card "you are foreigners, your chinese isn't good and you misunderstood..." Both my wife and I studied Chinese and use it daily in our personal lives and for business...It is far from perfect, but I know damn well what is going on in any conversation. So, I could call lawyers and take it to the Shanghai consumers watchgroup, but what would that do? I mean, even giants like Starbucks spend millions to sue and in the end are rewarded with laughable sums, so what chance does a lone foreigner have? The sad thing (for them) is that I was going to do the same program so they not only lost the remainder of the payment because of their shenanigans, they lost another huge payment to boot!
Second time - about 2 months ago I bought a diamond anniversary ring for my wife at Hiersun Diamonds in CITIC square (Big store, nice people, or so we thought). A very contemporary minimalist design that is beautiful. Suffice to say, about a month into it the diamond fitting became loose and we took it in for repairs thinking it was a one time thing. But last week it came loose again and when we went in this time the attendants calmly, and without the least bit of shame or "verguenza", said that this particular ring was not meant to be worn and that it would constantly be coming loose. The flaw in design was not their concern (somehow their shoddy craftsmanship is MY fault!) and their suggestion was that I purchase another ring for my wife. They did not do the upstanding thing and offer to replace it or fix it, their lame ass pathetic excuse for a solution is that I fork over more hard earned money and buy another of their most likely defective products. Very helpful I must say, what kind of ring is not meant to be worn?
So my question is (I guess it is a lot of questions, but around the same topic) - When are the Chinese going to stop robbing, cheating and stealing everything that they can get their hands on? When are they going to learn that screwing people for all they can is just inherently wrong? And lastly, when are they going to learn basic ethics (how hard can it be?)????
I usually dont rant, but this is ridiculous...
Cheers you rotten bastards! Ya finally got the best of me... |
You rant all the time. You hate chinese people and it comes out in most of your post.
it's not the oil. There is sugar in allmost all chinese food. That's one reason why your wife is fat. THe other is she's not very happy. My guess is your not the greatest lover in Shanghai. You are a very angry man. I think you really need to get some help, before you hurt someone. |
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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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Jan 06, 2008 - 05:03 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: When will it ever change? |
| SnappySammy wrote: |
| NCD22 wrote: |
So, you think that after 5 years of living here I would have learned my lesson, but in just the last two weeks I have gotten bent over the metaphorical barrel and spanked in near legendary fashion. Guess if you let your guard down for a second, WHAM! it'll hit you that people here don't play by any rules...
First was when I went to the diet clinic with my wife (Sau San Tong in Central Plaza) with the intention of buying her a diet program (ya get fat in China! must be all the oil), one where they bring you food throughout the week along with supplements and herbs. All was going well until AFTER (of course) we had paid the initial deposit, gone in for TWO checkups and finally were about to start when we find out that the program that we had signed up for was not what they were giving us. Instead they wanted to only give her small packets of rotten tasting Chinese medicine and "coaching" on how to eat (at the same astronomical price!). To make a long story short, they lied, cheated, stole and in the end refused to change the plan or refund the money (these services ain't cheap). They played the classic card "you are foreigners, your chinese isn't good and you misunderstood..." Both my wife and I studied Chinese and use it daily in our personal lives and for business...It is far from perfect, but I know damn well what is going on in any conversation. So, I could call lawyers and take it to the Shanghai consumers watchgroup, but what would that do? I mean, even giants like Starbucks spend millions to sue and in the end are rewarded with laughable sums, so what chance does a lone foreigner have? The sad thing (for them) is that I was going to do the same program so they not only lost the remainder of the payment because of their shenanigans, they lost another huge payment to boot!
Second time - about 2 months ago I bought a diamond anniversary ring for my wife at Hiersun Diamonds in CITIC square (Big store, nice people, or so we thought). A very contemporary minimalist design that is beautiful. Suffice to say, about a month into it the diamond fitting became loose and we took it in for repairs thinking it was a one time thing. But last week it came loose again and when we went in this time the attendants calmly, and without the least bit of shame or "verguenza", said that this particular ring was not meant to be worn and that it would constantly be coming loose. The flaw in design was not their concern (somehow their shoddy craftsmanship is MY fault!) and their suggestion was that I purchase another ring for my wife. They did not do the upstanding thing and offer to replace it or fix it, their lame ass pathetic excuse for a solution is that I fork over more hard earned money and buy another of their most likely defective products. Very helpful I must say, what kind of ring is not meant to be worn?
So my question is (I guess it is a lot of questions, but around the same topic) - When are the Chinese going to stop robbing, cheating and stealing everything that they can get their hands on? When are they going to learn that screwing people for all they can is just inherently wrong? And lastly, when are they going to learn basic ethics (how hard can it be?)????
I usually dont rant, but this is ridiculous...
Cheers you rotten bastards! Ya finally got the best of me... |
You rant all the time. You hate chinese people and it comes out in most of your post.
it's not the oil. There is sugar in allmost all chinese food. That's one reason why your wife is fat. THe other is she's not very happy. My guess is your not the greatest lover in Shanghai. You are a very angry man. I think you really need to get some help, before you hurt someone. |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
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Jan 06, 2008 - 05:55 PM |
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I sometimes wonder why I want to go back to China. I had my fair share of irritating experiences when I lived there last year. A few lessons I learned:
1) Don't trust anyone that has anything to do with your money
2) If it's made in China and being sold in China it's a pile of flaming dog faeces
3) Don't trust anyone you've just met
4) Always assume you are being ripped off
5) Don't be polite or tell them how nice they are or what a great deal they're doing etc etc, it's like seeing a big hole in the ground with spikes in it and someone about to cover it up so you don't see it when you accidentally step into it but instead you say "hey don't worry about that, I'll just throw myself in!"
6) Be prepared to argue over anything
Generally I didn't have any problems with friends I'd made in China, other than the fact they'd occasionally stand me up or phone me for no apparent reason at stupid times of the night. It's just that most people that had anything to do with my money were completely untrustworthy. I met some people who had things to do with my money who were genuine and honest and didn't tell me to go f*ck my mother when I decided not to buy from them, and these people I sometimes rewarded with a tip for honesty. I never thought I'd tip someone for honesty but that's just the state of public service in China. Unfortunately the non-trustworthy people ruin it for the trustworthy people.
I've come to understand though that it's just a completely different culture. In Chinese culture people sh*t on each other. It's like many layers of scaffolding with one person standing above another and they're all sh*tting onto each other. The person with the most money/power stands on the highest level and doesn't get sh*t on because he's high up there. And so everyone wants to make more money to get up there so they don't get sh*t on.
I personally blame the Chinese government for most of the Chinese people's faults (not to say that us westerners are never at fault). I blame them a) because it's easy to blame them, b) because they deserve to be blamed and c) because it's them who created this "To get rich is to be glorious" culture and to allow corruption to run riot.
I'm hoping that the Olympics will be the biggest kick up the backside China has had to recieve since deciding to get rich by robbing off of people and that it will seriously clean up it's act. To get rich is obviously not to be glorious as China has proved. |
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foreverinchina
PopStar
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1253
Location: 徐家汇
Status: Offline
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Jan 06, 2008 - 06:56 PM |
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| woaishanghai07 wrote: |
| I personally blame the Chinese government .... |
You can blame the Chinese government for many things, but for this matter, the cheating-culture, you'll better blame Confucius and his concentric circle theory.
The high family values, the high degree of care for their children and parents (which we, westerners sometimes envy them) is basically the same kind of behaviour as the cheating anyone else outside their third circle. It's all Conficius' fault.
I know, Confucius died long time ago, but his influence during all these centuries has made the Chinese people what they are now. So don't dream it will ever change. Europe will loose its Christianity before the Chinese people will give up their Confucius-behavior. |
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To govern a big country is like cooking a small fish.
Stir as little as possible.
- Lao Zi, Daode Jing 256 BC |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2166
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Jan 06, 2008 - 09:05 PM |
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NCD22's initial post is pretty funny. A fat clinic and a diamond merchant?! These are two businesses that rip you off no matter where you are in the world. |
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maximus1
Reacher
Joined: June 18, 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Jing'An
Status: Offline
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Jan 06, 2008 - 10:59 PM |
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saying relationships are key here sounds so cliche since everyone says it; but it's so freakin true - particularly when it's a society where you're considered a fool for not taking advantage of a stranger. you can never let your guard down here.
that being said, the mainland chinese people that I've gotten to know well are some of the nicest, most generous people I've met. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 12:09 AM |
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| BONNIE wrote: |
| I think she means that she feels National Museums, Historical spots, etc should be free entry - they belong to the people - surely. In London, pretty much all the Museums are free entry. |
as it should be. |
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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 02:15 AM |
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| woaishanghai07 wrote: |
I sometimes wonder why I want to go back to China. I had my fair share of irritating experiences when I lived there last year. A few lessons I learned:
1) Don't trust anyone that has anything to do with your money
2) If it's made in China and being sold in China it's a pile of flaming dog faeces
3) Don't trust anyone you've just met
4) Always assume you are being ripped off
5) Don't be polite or tell them how nice they are or what a great deal they're doing etc etc, it's like seeing a big hole in the ground with spikes in it and someone about to cover it up so you don't see it when you accidentally step into it but instead you say "hey don't worry about that, I'll just throw myself in!"
6) Be prepared to argue over anything
Generally I didn't have any problems with friends I'd made in China, other than the fact they'd occasionally stand me up or phone me for no apparent reason at stupid times of the night. It's just that most people that had anything to do with my money were completely untrustworthy. I met some people who had things to do with my money who were genuine and honest and didn't tell me to go f*ck my mother when I decided not to buy from them, and these people I sometimes rewarded with a tip for honesty. I never thought I'd tip someone for honesty but that's just the state of public service in China. Unfortunately the non-trustworthy people ruin it for the trustworthy people.
I've come to understand though that it's just a completely different culture. In Chinese culture people sh*t on each other. It's like many layers of scaffolding with one person standing above another and they're all sh*tting onto each other. The person with the most money/power stands on the highest level and doesn't get sh*t on because he's high up there. And so everyone wants to make more money to get up there so they don't get sh*t on.
I personally blame the Chinese government for most of the Chinese people's faults (not to say that us westerners are never at fault). I blame them a) because it's easy to blame them, b) because they deserve to be blamed and c) because it's them who created this "To get rich is to be glorious" culture and to allow corruption to run riot.
I'm hoping that the Olympics will be the biggest kick up the backside China has had to recieve since deciding to get rich by robbing off of people and that it will seriously clean up it's act. To get rich is obviously not to be glorious as China has proved. |
Good post, and good follow up about Confucius. The last paragraph ("kick up the backside") is also my hope, but it seems most likely to come through gigantic losses of face when masses of people see the real China and the journalists report it and the rest of the shiit they're not supposed to. Will be interesting to see the stories that are reported by foreign journalists and how much of those reaches the locals and which are blocked. in short, potential PR disaster. |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 04:35 AM |
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It would be great if more Chinese people found out about what they're government is like, only then will stuff start happening as more and more people start rebelling. Already people are starting to rebel and the communists are starting to panic a little as they made all these promises that they said the olympics would help them fulfill, yet they are not fulfilled yet. And I have complete and utter faith in the press' abilty to dig up dirt on the communist party, they'll dig it up any small scale village idiot so they can dig up the huge scale dirt the government has piled up. 08/08/08 is going to be a very exciting date! |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 05:56 AM |
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| mat wrote: |
| I once had a heating repair man tell me, with a straight face, that the heating wasn't working properly because it is too cold. Once the weather warmed up, the heating should be fine he reckoned. |
The typical kong tiao in SH works on heat transfer.
This is OK if the outside air is above freezing, but it essentially fails to "take" enough heat from the outside air when it gets too cold (i.e. fails when you need it most). Welcome to Jiangnan.
You can get a heater with a resistor coil built in, but then you have to hope that it doesn't overload your circuit breaker.
As for the water heaters, the icy cold water comes when the water heater cycles itself off. Haven't figured out why this happens yet. I also suspect certain flow combinations make this more or less likely, but the ideal setting was not consistent from heater to heater.
As soon as the cold water arrives, I shut off the water flow and then restart it. Recovery time depends on distance from the water heater.
Of course, this won't work when the heater goes into error mode (beeping "E"). Got to make wet footprints across the damn cold tiles when this happens.
Water saving note (if you don't already do this):
Fill the toilet tank after you flush with the "hot" water (before it's heated) to pre-fill the pipe with hot water before you start your shower. |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 06:08 AM |
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| maximus1 wrote: |
saying relationships are key here sounds so cliche since everyone says it; but it's so freakin true - particularly when it's a society where you're considered a fool for not taking advantage of a stranger. you can never let your guard down here.
that being said, the mainland chinese people that I've gotten to know well are some of the nicest, most generous people I've met. |
To cheat someone you know (i.e. a friend) would be a loss of face.
Therefore, one has to make his killing from strangers.
All the "getting to know you" before doing business makes more sense if you understand this context. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 07:09 AM |
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| woaishanghai07 wrote: |
| It would be great if more Chinese people found out about what they're government is like, only then will stuff start happening as more and more people start rebelling. Already people are starting to rebel and the communists are starting to panic a little as they made all these promises that they said the olympics would help them fulfill, yet they are not fulfilled yet. And I have complete and utter faith in the press' abilty to dig up dirt on the communist party, they'll dig it up any small scale village idiot so they can dig up the huge scale dirt the government has piled up. 08/08/08 is going to be a very exciting date! |
you don't get it! |
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kkchen
Seeker
Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 10:15 AM |
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stop complainin on your f*ckin stupidity just because u have to learn it from the hard way, and since u're so smart like u said, i guess there's still a long way for you to go, otherwise just go back to wherever the **** hole u're from |
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chingiskhan
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 2242
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 11:17 AM |
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| sbergman wrote: |
| NCD22's initial post is pretty funny. A fat clinic and a diamond merchant?! These are two businesses that rip you off no matter where you are in the world. |
Yes, exactly, along with hair regrowth schemes. If it was that easy then people like Elton John wouldn't need to wear rugs! |
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Me_Again
Reacher
Joined: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Lost
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 11:34 AM |
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Lucky for me we have a Rinnai 16L Water Heater. The maximum temperature was set at 60 degrees which is fine for any hot water outlet which is located close to the water heater, however our shower was luke warm at best.
Being a DIY person, yesterday I opened up the water heater, fiddled with a few dip switches and now the maximum temperature is 75 degrees....I'm now enjoying nice hot showers.
The problem in China is that they don't insulate the full length of the hot water pipes, so the greater the distance a hot water outlet is from the heater, the more heat loss you will have, sometimes in excess of 25-30 degrees.
Being an electrician by trade in a past life, the only main advantage of storage hot water systems is that they use less energy at a given period in time, therefore balance the demand on supply networks, but take more time to heat. Instantaneous systems have a high electrical current demand, and high gas flow demand therefore place extra stresses on supply systems. Storage systems are prefered by utility companies because it helps them reduce "peak loads or demand". Solar hot water is an excellent choice. |
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We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6408
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Jan 07, 2008 - 11:45 AM |
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| Me_Again wrote: |
| The problem in China is that they don't insulate the full length of the hot water pipes, so the greater the distance a hot water outlet is from the heater, the more heat loss you will have, sometimes in excess of 25-30 degrees. |
I have the same problem with the insulation. The water heater (a gas fired unit that combines tap water heating with the floor heating system) is on the ground floor. The water on the first two floors comes hot and fast. On the third floor I have to waste a lot of water before it gets hot. A good insulation, and some kind of recirculation system, would make a big difference. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 11:47 AM |
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| kkchen wrote: |
| stop complainin on your f*ckin stupidity just because u have to learn it from the hard way, and since u're so smart like u said, i guess there's still a long way for you to go, otherwise just go back to wherever the **** hole u're from |
 Where we come from (far less of a shiithole that China, I'm afraid to say), it's not 'stupidity' to trust people. |
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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 11:54 AM |
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| Andreas wrote: |
| Me_Again wrote: |
| The problem in China is that they don't insulate the full length of the hot water pipes, so the greater the distance a hot water outlet is from the heater, the more heat loss you will have, sometimes in excess of 25-30 degrees. |
I have the same problem with the insulation. The water heater (a gas fired unit that combines tap water heating with the floor heating system) is on the ground floor. The water on the first two floors comes hot and fast. On the third floor I have to waste a lot of water before it gets hot. A good insulation, and some kind of recirculation system, would make a big difference. |
Anyone out there know if, in the constant construction of new apartment buildings that are going up, proper (or better than before) insulation (piping, walls, ceilings, windows, etc) is being put in yet, or is it still 'build it as cheaply as possible, sell it and get out'? Are developers being given any incentives to do these things? Are buyers here savvy enough to know their benefits? |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18037
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Jan 07, 2008 - 12:02 PM |
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Unfortunately, consistant with the trhead topic, it is a buyer beware situation. Some developers do a very good job of adding insulation where necessAry and others do onot. In a standard "bare box" apt, the developer has nothing to do with the hot water unless its a central boiler plan unit like our units in Ming Garden on Fuxing rd. At least there though the hot water pipes run into the units via an air couduit rather than buried in cold concrete. IOn a standard unit where the interior is fitted out by the owners, the owners need to opt to add insulation to the pipes. i bought my place second had so it was not done and so i waste 5 mins of water to get to the warmer tolerable water in winter for my showers.  |
_________________
Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 12:18 PM |
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| chingiskhan wrote: |
| sbergman wrote: |
| NCD22's initial post is pretty funny. A fat clinic and a diamond merchant?! These are two businesses that rip you off no matter where you are in the world. |
Yes, exactly, along with hair regrowth schemes. If it was that easy then people like Elton John wouldn't need to wear rugs! |
I also like the infomercials where you take a pill and it makes your breast bigger.I watch them all the time. However I don't think very many Chinese woman use those pills. |
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underh20
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9887
Location: EOA Seminar
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Jan 07, 2008 - 12:25 PM |
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^ They seemed to have worked for you though.  |
_________________
بارك الله ، بارك الله |
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kkchen
Seeker
Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2008 - 12:45 PM |
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| findus wrote: |
| kkchen wrote: |
| stop complainin on your f*ckin stupidity just because u have to learn it from the hard way, and since u're so smart like u said, i guess there's still a long way for you to go, otherwise just go back to wherever the **** hole u're from |
Where we come from (far less of a shiithole that China, I'm afraid to say), it's not 'stupidity' to trust people. |
what i m sayin is that u get shitty people all over the world, it might be true that there are more people here tryin to rip u off or cheat your money and shiit, the truth is there are far more people here than most of other countries in the world, u gotta play by the rules here, and don't just emphasize on all the wrong shiits people done, have u appreciate the good things? people should be aware of all these things before they come to china, ask others if you're not sure where to get things, it's not stupid to trust people, it's stupid that u didn't do your homework and get cheated and put the whole nation on trial. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 01:55 PM |
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my little proverb i have for china is simple but should be applied to every situation liberally.
everything in china is just for looking, for all things and relationships is about smoke and mirrors.
i also think that if it was not for the shear numbers of people here, no one (aside from Chinese) would care a less about china.
i have lived in many parts of the world in many vast cultural differences, and sorry to say IMO china and Chinese are the most sneaky, lying, cheating, dishonest, deceiving people on earth. one can only hope that the rest of the world gets a reality check about this hole and the Chinese people within it on the so called auspicious date 888. me thinks however that the outside media won't get such an insight, since they will need chaperones, or translators at the very least to conduct themselves here for their stay and will not get a real insiders view of the real china. period.
China and Chinese wont be changing any time soon.
FYI this is my 6th year in China, i work in a Chinese hospital directing a foreigners clinic, outside Shanghai. this is the real China, Shanghai is not representative of the real China at all... |
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qing nin shao deng |
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