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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Jan 07, 2008 - 01:59 PM |
 
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| kkchen wrote: |
| findus wrote: |
| kkchen wrote: |
| stop complainin on your f*ckin stupidity just because u have to learn it from the hard way, and since u're so smart like u said, i guess there's still a long way for you to go, otherwise just go back to wherever the **** hole u're from |
 Where we come from (far less of a shiithole that China, I'm afraid to say), it's not 'stupidity' to trust people. |
what i m sayin is that u get shitty people all over the world, it might be true that there are more people here tryin to rip u off or cheat your money and shiit, the truth is there are far more people here than most of other countries in the world, u gotta play by the rules here, and don't just emphasize on all the wrong shiits people done, have u appreciate the good things? people should be aware of all these things before they come to china, ask others if you're not sure where to get things, it's not stupid to trust people, it's stupid that u didn't do your homework and get cheated and put the whole nation on trial. |
'More people in China' is irrelevant, we're talking about the percentage of our dealings with locals.
It's kinda stupid not to do your homework, but at the same time it's often very hard for westerners to believe (and therefore predict) just how untrustworthy so many people here can be. I've NOW been here long enough to understand what many people will be like here, when I first came I wouldn't have believed it as it's so against my own country's 'fair play' culture.
I think most of us appreciate the good things, but the bad things are what get to us and what makes us pissed off, which is why so many people use forums to vent. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 02:23 PM |
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the positive things include, being able to get things done most of the time, or ways around the roadblocks to getting things done. also the lack of graffiti in most places, aside from the odd phone no. applied to buildings, walls and lamp posts... unfortunately, the negatives far outweigh the positives for the most part... but things are slowly improving, but the changes in some areas are slow, to non-existent and some things will not change. |
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qing nin shao deng |
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KELLA
Talker
Joined: Dec 07, 2007
Posts: 116
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 02:35 PM |
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@kkchen
just ignore all the above complaints, the truth is all the foreigners here love shanghai, why they are here if they dont like it? |
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TaiShan
Seeker
Joined: Apr 13, 2006
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 03:33 PM |
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it's never going to change. after the cultural revolution the chinese mind was as blank as a piece of paper b4 you print anything on it. no culture, a revised language (simplified which means simpler mind and thus thought process), no morals or values, and any morals and values that are left are survived only by the peasants from the mao era who are dying at a rate i'm happy to see them leave by.
so it will never change. the minute you put a few $s in front of a bunch of peasants they get googley-eyed and mind-boggled and that's a total screw up for an already empty pot. bcos you're filing their heads with lying and cheating and stupid excuses like "get in when the water is warm and out when it's cold.". that is a typical chinese answer and is applauded by locals as a person who shows signs of intelligence of the maoist order.
fake, low-quality, scheming, thieving, lying. the only thing the chinese are good at is emigrating and making kids and they can't even get that right.
what really surprises me about this place is the depth of the gene pool. surely by now they mustv crossed lines somewhere and kids with aunties fingers and uncles nose will start popping up soon. but then again they are so inbred that they dont even have body hair anymore. the other thing is that they;re so empty minded that the only way to do things is to copy other countries and they cnat even get that half right.
so imagine a shallow gene pool of shceming, caniving air-headed inbreds with 25 +/- years of so called culture, an industrial revolution with the worlds worst quality water and then ask yourself again, when will things ever change?
or better yet, when will this **** end? |
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i want money, ah ohoh, that |
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KELLA
Talker
Joined: Dec 07, 2007
Posts: 116
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 03:57 PM |
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yet, you still love this ****. interesting |
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chingiskhan
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 2242
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 03:59 PM |
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| TaiShan wrote: |
| it's never going to change. after the cultural revolution the chinese mind was as blank as a piece of paper b4 you print anything on it. no culture, a revised language (simplified which means simpler mind and thus thought process), no morals or values, and any morals and values that are left are survived only by the peasants from the mao era who are dying at a rate i'm happy to see them leave by. |
I guess you're a "glass is half empty" kind of guy. I think it might take a while, but it'll get better. I already see big changes in the younger generation in terms of queuing, spitting etc as well as personal hygiene, taste for western food etc. Most of my colleagues are as disgusted as I am when they see someone spit on the floor of a hotel lobby and certainly wouldn't be seen doing it themselves.
Okay, I'll take off the rose coloured specs now .... |
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boredengineer
SuperStar
Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 04:06 PM |
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| KELLA wrote: |
@kkchen
just ignore all the above complaints, the truth is all the foreigners here love shanghai, why they are here if they dont like it? |
That explaination is much too simple, think about that again. Are all soldiers fighting in a war there because they love to fight and risk their lives? Do people who scrub toilets for a living do it because they love it? |
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chingiskhan
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 2242
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 04:11 PM |
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Of course not ALL foreigners love it here. I know a few who can't wait to leave and I know lots who are having the time of their lives. |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6408
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Jan 07, 2008 - 04:13 PM |
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| KELLA wrote: |
@kkchen
just ignore all the above complaints, the truth is all the foreigners here love shanghai, why they are here if they dont like it? |
I don't know about you, but I was sent here to do a job. Not my choice. I try to make the best of it, but I am definitely not here for my health or the nice weather. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18037
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Jan 07, 2008 - 04:25 PM |
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| KELLA wrote: |
@kkchen
just ignore all the above complaints, the truth is all the foreigners here love shanghai, why they are here if they dont like it? |
肯定被洗脑了
或不可能说出怎么苯的话
Good example of the brainwashing as no one in their right mind would post something so obviously not true .
There is a variety of reasons people live in shanghai, both foreigners and other Chinese, and not the leastt of it is because they LIKE Shanghai. Yes, some do, but many more are here for the opportunities it offers. I would suggest visiting a few other countries before deciding that its automatic that one would live here only b/c one likes the place. Sadly, many people do not CHOOSE to take a harder road and essentially end up here with their jobs, but that does not mean they will like it here. |
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Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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TaiShan
Seeker
Joined: Apr 13, 2006
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 04:51 PM |
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will it ever get better? who do these youngsters model their behaviour on? the west? the east? the middle? the south? their parents? their grandparents? a handful of foreign teachers? a handful of untouchable rich and famous?
they've been brainwashed so that they can be easily led. yet it seems as though no1 is leading or is allowed to lead, and they don't even wnat to take the reigns and lead themsleves to greener pastures. the Gov talks about GDP and 5 year plans and everybody models themselves on that. yet it is not appropraite for all to model themseves on 1.
i'm a half full kinda guy. got my eyes on the prize and can't wait to taste the victory champagne.
yes i love china, but it saddens me sometimes, looking out of my apartment/office tower thinking that all i'm looking at are a billion 9 - 5 drones and 600 000 000 cheats.
there are exceptions and nobody is the same, but the general mind-track is single minded. like horses wearing blinkers.
i wonder where this lack of trust stems from? why cheat and lie? is that winning or losing face? why do you want face? ..... |
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i want money, ah ohoh, that |
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Andreas
Board Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6408
Location: 31 N 121 E
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Jan 07, 2008 - 05:23 PM |
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It's called '5000 years and still developing'. |
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If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues! |
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kkchen
Seeker
Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jan 07, 2008 - 06:07 PM |
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| findus wrote: |
| kkchen wrote: |
| findus wrote: |
| kkchen wrote: |
| stop complainin on your f*ckin stupidity just because u have to learn it from the hard way, and since u're so smart like u said, i guess there's still a long way for you to go, otherwise just go back to wherever the **** hole u're from |
Where we come from (far less of a shiithole that China, I'm afraid to say), it's not 'stupidity' to trust people. |
what i m sayin is that u get shitty people all over the world, it might be true that there are more people here tryin to rip u off or cheat your money and shiit, the truth is there are far more people here than most of other countries in the world, u gotta play by the rules here, and don't just emphasize on all the wrong shiits people done, have u appreciate the good things? people should be aware of all these things before they come to china, ask others if you're not sure where to get things, it's not stupid to trust people, it's stupid that u didn't do your homework and get cheated and put the whole nation on trial. |
'More people in China' is irrelevant, we're talking about the percentage of our dealings with locals.
It's kinda stupid not to do your homework, but at the same time it's often very hard for westerners to believe (and therefore predict) just how untrustworthy so many people here can be. I've NOW been here long enough to understand what many people will be like here, when I first came I wouldn't have believed it as it's so against my own country's 'fair play' culture.
I think most of us appreciate the good things, but the bad things are what get to us and what makes us pissed off, which is why so many people use forums to vent. |
Damn dude, of course it's relevant, u think people here are born to cheat, to steal, to rip you off? u think they like the fact that the rest of their family is in some outer-real-shithole villages farming and makin 500rmb a year and while himself got not enough education to make a decent living here in Shanghai like the rest of us? Just think for a while, then u'll figure that lotta problems are not simply "because chinese are like that", they're all related, and for the rest of you people think its a shithole here, do you know how many locals are complaining? nothin against anybody, it's just the way it is here. Of course you have to protect yourself within the society, sometimes you gotta fight back, but think about it, what if you don't have the power to fight, to resist, to complain, to even have the enough rights that a person would get in some other places in the world, would you steal? would cheat? would you do whatever you can to make things better? also u gotta look into history too, there just so many shiits that caused what it is today... anyway, just do your homework and read some of the good tips that people've posted, otherwise don't f8ckin blame others |
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TheDudeAbides
Rocker
Joined: June 21, 2006
Posts: 720
Status: Offline
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Jan 07, 2008 - 08:52 PM |
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I don't think it's confined to just China either. In Australia, for instance, Chinese migrants take a lot of their culture, the good and bad, and I must honestly say it often doesn't mix in well with the existing Aussie culture. Ask almost any Aussie sales person, real estate agent, tradesman etc, who it is most difficult to do business with, and you'll pretty much always get the same answer. I know a lot of Chinese back home, and honestly, almost every one is somehow paying less tax than they should be, one way or another, and boasting about it, too. Examples - I know a guy who runs a, lets say, Asian fast-food shop by City Hall (pretty prime real estate). He gets the shop for $200 a week because it's classed as a "sharing of culture". And believe me, he is raking it in. At school, Chinese kids used to come to school in their BMW's and Audi's, showing off as they always do, but they were collecting Austudy (student allowance) which is usually for low-income earning families. While the average Joe slaves away paying full tax to a burgeoning and corrupt infastructure. Chinese - I mean you've got to hand it to them - they are just so good at taking advantage of a system, and other people. |
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findus
Veejay
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 1825
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jan 08, 2008 - 01:37 AM |
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| kkchen wrote: |
| findus wrote: |
| kkchen wrote: |
| findus wrote: |
| kkchen wrote: |
| stop complainin on your f*ckin stupidity just because u have to learn it from the hard way, and since u're so smart like u said, i guess there's still a long way for you to go, otherwise just go back to wherever the **** hole u're from |
Where we come from (far less of a shiithole that China, I'm afraid to say), it's not 'stupidity' to trust people. |
what i m sayin is that u get shitty people all over the world, it might be true that there are more people here tryin to rip u off or cheat your money and shiit, the truth is there are far more people here than most of other countries in the world, u gotta play by the rules here, and don't just emphasize on all the wrong shiits people done, have u appreciate the good things? people should be aware of all these things before they come to china, ask others if you're not sure where to get things, it's not stupid to trust people, it's stupid that u didn't do your homework and get cheated and put the whole nation on trial. |
'More people in China' is irrelevant, we're talking about the percentage of our dealings with locals.
It's kinda stupid not to do your homework, but at the same time it's often very hard for westerners to believe (and therefore predict) just how untrustworthy so many people here can be. I've NOW been here long enough to understand what many people will be like here, when I first came I wouldn't have believed it as it's so against my own country's 'fair play' culture.
I think most of us appreciate the good things, but the bad things are what get to us and what makes us pissed off, which is why so many people use forums to vent. |
... would you steal? would cheat? would you do whatever you can to make things better? |
No. I've been in bad situations before and never, NEVER, would it cross my mind to improve my situation by directly conning someone or stealing from them, thus making their life worse.
| Quote: |
| anyway, just do your homework and read some of the good tips that people've posted, otherwise don't f8ckin blame others |
Don't blame the other person if I'm cheated? Conned? Pickpocketed? Hit by any one of a million retarded 'drivers'?.... Right? Wrong. |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 08, 2008 - 02:20 AM |
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Chinese cheating on each other is like a survival mechanism, if they don't cheat on that person then that person will cheat on them. It's a sh*t or be sh*t on world for them. China is still a poor country, I think the majority of Chinese people are poor, there are just a few 'lucky' ones who are stupidly rich, and no they're not rich, they are stupidly rich. The only way they got rich is by using their guanxi, lying, bribing, sucking c*ck and back stabbing. They want to get rich because a) it makes life nice and b) it is "to be glorious". To be glorious is to have such amazing face which to the Chinese is so utterly valuable (I've never understood the concept of face to them).
I'm not entirely sure where the whole culture of cheating came from though, I just know they all do it because otherwise someone else is going to do it. Again I blame their government, I'm just gonna blame everything on the stupid communists cause I hate them.
Although, you've got to wonder, what would happen if the communists died out in China and suddenly it switched to democracy and all this lying and cheating and exploiting had to stop. Would China be able to cope with democracy? Maybe all of China's problems stem from the fact that it has the largest population of any country in the world by far.
Sorry, a bit random. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 08, 2008 - 09:41 AM |
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Wow. Woaishanghai07 you really are a very angry person. It appears you really hate China and all things Chinese. That's too bad. I really enjoy my time in China and I have met some wonderful people. I have also learned how they do business and have adapted to it.
Its like crossing the street. Here the cars have the right away not the people. It is different then in the states. Not that one is better then the other, it's just different.
I really think you need to smell the roses and not the ****. |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 08, 2008 - 02:39 PM |
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Yeah sorry I came across as pretty angry, I didn't mean to. I don't really hate China and the Chinese, I just really feel the need to vent about these things sometimes cause they really irritate me. I should be a bit more positive really.
I do actually love China and find they value certain things that we forget to over here in the West. It's just a culture I've found really difficult to adapt to. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 08, 2008 - 10:08 PM |
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Im glad you really do like China.
I do a lot of business in China, and it has been a long and very costly learning period. I have been told when I have been cheated it was my fault because I let them cheat me. Now when I make a purchase, someone who works for me is at the factory and watches and takes pictures of the entire process. When it is loaded in a Container and the container is sealed one of my people stay with it and follow it to the port.
They expect to be watched from their customer and if you don't watch them then your fair game. I am only a little stupid, once I understand the game, I do ok.
In my personal life, in China is very different. I have only Chinese friends and I am very fond of them and their families. They work hard and place a premium on Education. If the fruit stand rips me off I really don't care. If a local takes advantage of me, I really don't care. Ten containers of plywood I CARE |
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Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 09, 2008 - 02:04 AM |
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Well that's cool.
I suppose at the end of the day the east is the east and the west is the west, that's just the way things are in China. Chinese coming over to England must have big problems with how rude people are and how much they love to drink and how lazy they are and so many other things too.
I'm in England at the moment and planning on going back to China soon, if I didn't like China then I wouldn't go back, but these things are gonna piss me off and you'll probably see quite a few angry posts from me in the future complaining about the Chinese, but yeah it's just my way of venting. |
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SnappySammy
Board Legend
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10108
Status: Offline
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Jan 09, 2008 - 05:58 AM |
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Hey I love Hot Dogs and French Fries. I hate English food! I really think at the end of all the days, we are the most comfortable being in our own Homes with our own friends and family.
How does it go no matter how from I roam there's no place like home.
Also I try to always live by" When In Rome"
Enjoy your rants. |
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Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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woaishanghai07
Seeker
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 50
Status: Offline
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Jan 09, 2008 - 03:07 PM |
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Haha "When in Rome" is an excuse I have used for doing some things in China that are considered most wrong where I come from! |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 10, 2008 - 10:30 PM |
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| TaiShan wrote: |
| yes i love china |
Judging from the vitriol spewed forth, I think not.
Most ungracious of a guest.
Keep in mind, this is what you (and the rest of us expats) are.
Just a guest. |
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maneo
Rocker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 760
Location: in a gadda vida
Status: Offline
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Jan 10, 2008 - 10:35 PM |
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| SnappySammy wrote: |
| How does it go no matter how from I roam there's no place like home. |
Isn't "home" where the heart lies?
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3777
Status: Offline
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Jan 11, 2008 - 12:53 AM |
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| woaishanghai07 wrote: |
| Again I blame their government, I'm just gonna blame everything on the stupid communists cause I hate them. |
Wrong. Go read some history. It's not the communists (well, maybe the Jiang Zemin style "communists" but not the original ones) who are at fault. As far back as you can find literature, this is how it's been. What can you expect ? The entire country is named after qin shi huang di, fer chrissake.
| maneo wrote: |
| Just a guest. |
Go jump on a brick. When all the Chinese immigrants (not native-born) in the US move out, then I'll consider myself a "guest" here. Until then, shove it. |
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