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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Apr 22, 2008 - 11:56 PM |
 
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| traveller22 wrote: |
| Any chance of adding a filter attachment to the tap and using that for drinking water? What is it thats so bad for you (bacteria, metals, feces, etc...)? Good filters can take out most of the metals but I never hear about it as an option. Any reason why? I assume Brita filters wont take the "sting" out of Shanghai water huh? |
This was asked in another thread but I will answer it here and tyr an keep all the answers in the same place on this topic.
Shanghai Water is treated and disinfected with enough Chlorine so that what reaches your tap should not be too contaminated as far as biological contaminants go. So that is not the issue. BUT heavy metals and some industrial pollutants are not so easily removed.
A Brita is just an activated Carbon filter and while it will make the water taste better and remove some contaminants, the heavy metals are usually not touched.
For heavy metals, you usually are stuck with having to get a system with a Reverse Osmosis filter that gets rid of essentially everything.
And back to the original question, a tap mounted filter would work great in most developed countries as they have less of a heavy metals issue and more of a taste issue. Much like a brita, a tap filter usually removes chlorine and certain other chemicals and helps with the taste of the water, probably works well overseas (US, Canada, EU, Japan) but rarely addresses the Heavy Metal content enough for consumption here. |
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traveller22
Lurker
Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 34
Status: Offline
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Apr 23, 2008 - 09:52 AM |
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Thanks for the tips. I take it you have bottled water delivered then? Ballpark cost per month for 1 person? |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Apr 23, 2008 - 10:15 AM |
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^ Bottled water? errr, not anymore. Actually if you take the time to read the entire thread, you will see that we bought a 6 stage drinking water purifier that incorporates reverse osmosis, was designed for use here in China with its particulate laden muni water, and that uses all imported first-run plastic fittings and hoses to avoid the plastics leeching into the drinking water. After nearly a year of use experience, we are very pleased with it and have performed only regular maintenance as recommended. It is rather nice to have a faucet at the kitchen sink to get water on demand rather than calling for delivery b/c we run out. 
But hmmm, for only one person huh... thats kinda challenging. Your best bet may still be carefully selected well known branded bottled water. Sad that it means lots of plastics use, but the ROI on a good water filter is about 2 years for a family of 3 if not taking into account the environmental impact. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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traveller22
Lurker
Joined: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 34
Status: Offline
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Apr 23, 2008 - 08:15 PM |
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Thanks again man. I appreciate it! |
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2009 is Fine. F%@K what you heard!! |
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maneo
LoopKicker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 849
Location: neither here nor there
Status: Offline
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Apr 23, 2008 - 08:53 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| ^ Bottled water? errr, not anymore. Actually if you take the time to read the entire thread, you will see that we bought a 6 stage drinking water purifier that incorporates reverse osmosis, was designed for use here in China with its particulate laden muni water, and that uses all imported first-run plastic fittings and hoses to avoid the plastics leeching into the drinking water. After nearly a year of use experience, we are very pleased with it and have performed only regular maintenance as recommended. |
Saw that you got the Atlantis.
Must have got a great deal for a 2 year ROI.
Just curious to know, how often do you need to flush the RO unit?
Also, how often do the carbon filters need to be changed?
At first it seems strange that they mineralize the water.
However, after the RO treatment it would be too "soft," so it makes sense. Thanks. |
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zimbu
Reacher
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Posts: 244
Location: Stop poking my tail with your eye!
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Apr 25, 2008 - 10:59 AM |
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Another thing to keep in mind about "Shanghai water": The water quality you drink depends very much on your specific building as all taller buildings have water storage tanks on the top in order to maintain some decent water pressure for the residents. The water tanks need to be well maintained otherwise they will turn into a slimy swamp of bugs and mud in a matter of weeks.
I can tell you from personal experience that even many so-called luxury buildings in Shanghai do a terrible job keeping these things clean. No matter where you live, you should ask to personally inspect the water storage tank.
Actually, these tanks have a sort of simple gravity sedimentation process also, so they call them "xu shui chi" in Chinese. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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June 03, 2008 - 03:52 PM |
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| maneo wrote: |
| yu888 wrote: |
| ^ Bottled water? errr, not anymore. Actually if you take the time to read the entire thread, you will see that we bought a 6 stage drinking water purifier that incorporates reverse osmosis, was designed for use here in China with its particulate laden muni water, and that uses all imported first-run plastic fittings and hoses to avoid the plastics leeching into the drinking water. After nearly a year of use experience, we are very pleased with it and have performed only regular maintenance as recommended. |
Saw that you got the Atlantis.
Must have got a great deal for a 2 year ROI.
Just curious to know, how often do you need to flush the RO unit?
Also, how often do the carbon filters need to be changed?
At first it seems strange that they mineralize the water.
However, after the RO treatment it would be too "soft," so it makes sense. Thanks. |
Actually based on 10% off list price of 3680 which is the Shanghai Expat discount price of 3312rmb, factoring in standard maintenance cost of around 80/ replacment filter and around 400 for the RO replacement; and assuming 2/5 barrels of water per week (10 per month) of 18rmb water, ROI actually comesat 28 months. The initial 2 years was based on the intro price of filters or if one buys replacements in advance at 60rmb each.
The Reverse Osmosis unit does not get flushed, just replaced at around the 3 year mark. So long as the Reverse osmosis filter is well protected with initial stages of filtration, allowing it to do what it does best, filtering teh really small contaminants, it has a very long life.
The carbon filters need replacement every 6 months, and the first stage needs to be replaced every 3-6 mos depending on how bad your water is at your location.
And as Zimbu mentions, YES, the water in the taller buildings can range from very well maintained to horrible. The Water tanks on the roof that allow the apartments in those building to get instant water are a great source for secondary contamination and thus this is where building maintenance will add MORE chlorine into the tank to re-disinfect the water. And if one bag of chlorine bleach is good, then surely 2 bags is better eh? 
Last but not least, the tanks are open so bugs to get into the tanks and so they do have to flush those tanks every couple months. That MAY be a good time to replace the particulate filter in the Atlantis, as well as take the mesh off your faucets to clear the particulate matter that end up coming thru the pipes. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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June 05, 2008 - 04:21 PM |
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Ah, looks like the water filters will again be displayed at the Wednesday night Mixer next week6/11 at Malones from 9-10:30, so if you want to see the units and ask questions, please pop on by. Will also try and arrange a demo at the Coffee meets sometime this month too for those who cannot make it at night. PM me if anyone is interested. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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bloomark
Fire-eater
Joined: Apr 28, 2008
Posts: 2639
Location: Reality
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July 08, 2008 - 01:44 PM |
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The tap water, purified from the downtream oof Yangtze River, is overchlorinated to sterilize. You will got it when some smell on your water jog comes to you.
It does no harm to your health ever if boiled, but you have to stand the har-to-describe smell, escept you use it for cooking preparation.
As for the solution for filtered-and drinkable water, I suggest you order the purified water supply. |
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Never expect accountable tips from a bitter rumrunner. |
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jasonk
Lurker
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 23
Status: Offline
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July 29, 2008 - 09:50 AM |
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Over the past 4 weeks the cold water taps in my flat periodically gurgle and spew out yellowish-brown water for about 10 seconds, then water tends to run clean and quiet. In addition, the cold water seems to have an added dose of flavour - - not the good kind - - and my skin has felt more of a burning sensation after a shower. This doesn't seem to be happening to the hot water taps, only the cold. Do the water detectives on this board have thoughts on what might be causing this phenomena and what impact it might have on our health?
Thank you. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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July 29, 2008 - 10:34 AM |
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^ they may be treating the tanks on teh roof and not properly getting it rinsed out of the system, or someone is working on something inthe water system and introducing somnething to the system that shouldnt be there. High doses of chlorine and other disinfectants can irritate your skin. if you are concerned, bring a 200ml sample of your tap water over to the Directway Water and lifestyles products store and as them to do a chlorine test and maybe a precipitate test to get a feel for what may be in there. Directway's store is located at 509 Beijing West Rd in Jing An District. 6218-7799 |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Aug 03, 2008 - 12:43 PM |
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^ and just a note on pricing, as of August 1, the Atlantis Water Purifier retail price was bumped to its 4416 due to an increas in raw material and logistics costs at the factory level.  Inflation sucks. |
_________________
The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Aug 10, 2008 - 11:10 AM |
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This coming week, Directway wil be displaying their Healthy Water Products at two ShanghaiExpat hosted events.
On Wednesday night 3/13 at the Mixer at Malones, and on saturday from 1030-12, DirectWay representatives will attend and bring out a display of Water Filter solutions for the home. Products will include the Atlantis Drinking Water Purifier, the ShowerBaby chlorine-removing showerhead, and several others. So if you have an interest in seeing the products and asking questions, please come on out and check it out.
Those with water issues that need their tap water tested can go by the store directly at 509 Beijing West Rd and ask for Annie or David, who can handle such requests. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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SnappySammy
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 13112
Status: Offline
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Aug 12, 2008 - 11:54 PM |
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Everytime I worry about drinking water,I think there are 1.3 billion people who somehow don't get sick from the water...But I don't know how....
I really wonder if the filters work...I hope they do... |
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Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Aug 13, 2008 - 08:19 AM |
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^ you will have to ask GE about their reverse osmosis membranes (one's approved and used in US Medical facilities) as that is the core of the drinking water purifier offered by Directway. Some of the other filters in this marketplace are downright scary though. Take a look at this photo below. One is the DirectWay Reserve tank cut away so you can see its the clear-type first-run plastic that contains the water, the other uses black recycled plastic...RECYCLED from WHAT? Scary. You do NOT want any recycled plastic in contact with your drinking water supply...can you imagine it may have been a motor oil container before? Bleh.
And actually, the cancer rates in China have skyrocketed in recent yearsz. Even in Shanghai there are rural villages that have high rates of cancer due to polluted water sources. |
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_________________
The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Aug 29, 2008 - 10:25 AM |
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Ok, seems Directway will be sponsoring this weekend's Shanghai Expat BBQ out at Forest Manor so any of you out that way that want to check out the Shower filters or drinking water purifier, there will be samples out at the BBQ and they will have basic testing materials if you want to bring them a sample of your tap water to see whats really in it...:S |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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peterex
Squeeker
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 19
Status: Offline
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Aug 29, 2008 - 12:07 PM |
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Please be careful when using these high tech filters in the home. Pure H2O is very reactive and EXTREMEMLY toxic. It acts as a sponge, and will absorb salts and minerals from the body. That's why minerals are added post-filtration-- not just for taste. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Aug 30, 2008 - 08:22 PM |
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Mineralized water is the best option as it will allow your body to absorb what it need from the water as opposed to the water leaching minerals away from the body. Though realistically, one would need to drink alot of pure h20 to get there. Nonetheless, this is why a good drinking water purifier isnt just a filter but one that supplies healthy water in the end. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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MarkDow
Ranter
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 544
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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Aug 30, 2008 - 10:19 PM |
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Yu - If you boil the water, then it should not matter then...am i wrong or right? When I brewed beer in the states( i made a great beer, btw) if the water was boiled it became ok to bottle and ferment to form a great beer, I thought that by boiling water, this "cleaned" the water....please tell me if I am wrong. If boiling water, "cleans" the water...shouldn't it be drinkable, cookable, etc? |
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Not your ordinary average bear! |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Aug 31, 2008 - 01:35 AM |
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| MarkDow wrote: |
| Yu - If you boil the water, then it should not matter then...am i wrong or right? When I brewed beer in the states( i made a great beer, btw) if the water was boiled it became ok to bottle and ferment to form a great beer, I thought that by boiling water, this "cleaned" the water....please tell me if I am wrong. If boiling water, "cleans" the water...shouldn't it be drinkable, cookable, etc? |
Sorry Mark, but wrong. Here is an answer i replied to another member earlier this week.
http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/MDForum-viewtopic-t-80983.phtml
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Shanghai water is considered potable BUT it does contain larger amounts of heavy metals that we usually would find unacceptable. Thus if one boils the water, it only increases the concentration of the heavy metals as most of what boils off is the healthy part of the water. It also contains high amounts of particulate matter. That and some chemical runoff from fertilizers and pesticides and then there is the high levels of chlorine used to disinfect the water...
Actually, Shanghai Municipal water is generally pretty good in terms of being disinfected, as it leaves the plant, but as it travels through the old infrastructure, it picks up rust and other stuff in the pipes so by the time it gets to your home, many secondary sources of pollution and contamination have access to your water so it is best to drink properly filtered water...and a carbon filter is NOT the answer as it does NOT remove heavy metals. A Carbon filter only removes particulate matter, and certain chemicals AND changes the taste, but other chemicals and heavy metals get through. Only a purifier utilising steam distillation or a reverse osmosis filter (commercially available options anyhow) will remove everything including the the heavy metals properly for drinking. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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italian-in-SH
Seeker
Joined: June 28, 2008
Posts: 55
Status: Offline
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Aug 31, 2008 - 03:06 PM |
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Hi All,
Thanks for the valid contributions, especially thanks to Yu, you are the man! Can anyone suggest me some safe local bottled water brands that I can buy in supermarkets? Thanks! |
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"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally" |
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dkerr99
Seeker
Joined: Dec 28, 2007
Posts: 46
Status: Offline
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Aug 31, 2008 - 08:20 PM |
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| Post subject: where to get water quality tests |
| yu888 wrote: |
Speaking of pollutants, 583 ppm. Thats what we tested this weekend out of the tap in Jing An District. Compared to the 19ppm we got out of a new home water treatment unit I have been working to get available to us. According to many US water districts, the recommended range of particulates and minerals is supposed to be under 400ppm... and considering it comes from water districts, they probably already stretched the numbers a bit.  Drinking water industry numbers indicate a much lower tolerance of no more than 50ppm!
Further testing allowed us to see some of the breakdown of the contaminants included iron, lead, and chlorine, and others I could not translate. After seeing this, I am bathing my baby in drinking water until i can get something into the house for sure, AND obviously cooking with only drinking water too. Hoping to have some English info next week on this. |
We have been in Shanghai since April in a brand new building in west part of French Concession - the water (despite 4 filters in building apparently) has been smelly and coloured kind of yellowish. I think it has a chemical smell. We have an ongoing battle with building management about this - they claim its fine - we don't want to bathe in it. Do you know where we can get a water test? I'd like to determine what is actually in the water and then see what to do about it.
thanks in advance |
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maneo
LoopKicker
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 849
Location: neither here nor there
Status: Offline
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Sep 01, 2008 - 03:09 AM |
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| MarkDow wrote: |
| Yu - If you boil the water, then it should not matter then...am i wrong or right? When I brewed beer in the states( i made a great beer, btw) if the water was boiled it became ok to bottle and ferment to form a great beer, I thought that by boiling water, this "cleaned" the water....please tell me if I am wrong. If boiling water, "cleans" the water...shouldn't it be drinkable, cookable, etc? |
Boiling water does not clean it, unless you are collecting the steam and condensing it (aka distillation).
Boiling is useful primarily to kill bacteria. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Sep 16, 2008 - 01:06 PM |
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Some recent water news>>>
| Quote: |
In 2007 approximately 280, 000 Chinese children under the age of five died from preventable diseases caused by lack of clean drinking water.
According to the UN, contaminated drinking water causes five times the number of child deaths than are caused by HIV/AIDS.
More than 300 million rural Chinese citizens lack access to clean drinking water. Sewage is often dumped into the fields creating a breeding ground for disease in rural China. The World Bank estimates that health and environmental problems cost the Chinese about $50 billion a year.
Is it any wonder that the Chinese are spending tens of billions of dollars each year modernizing the way they process and deliver water?
China water resources are vast. It has the same amount of water as Canada, but 40 times the population. Approximately 400 out of 600 cities in China are facing water shortages, including 30 out of the 32 largest cities.
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taken from : http://seekingalpha.com/article/93900-forget-oil-water-is-chinas-bigge st-shortage?source=d_email |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more
Last edited by yu888 on Sep 16, 2008 - 02:49 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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hammerforlife
Low Seater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3087
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Sep 16, 2008 - 01:47 PM |
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From another report written for the World Bank:
"The overall percentage of urban population connected to a sewage treatment plant in China is currently estimated at about 34%. 17,000 towns have no wastewater treatment".
"In many parts of China and especially in the developed areas of the north, water resources are under enormous pressure from over utilisation and pollution. This has become a major constraint to economic development and severely impacts upon the people’s health and quality of life. It is estimated that this is costing the equivalent of US$ 14 to 27 billion per year in lost economic activity. 400 of the 600 major cities suffer from water shortages and 70 % of water courses are severely polluted . There is a critical shortage of 40 billion m3 per year of water in the north of China." |
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