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Portsmouth
Talker
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Shanghai
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 Posted:
May 02, 2007 - 11:44 PM |
 
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Yu and Hammerforlife,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I googled on "Reverse Osmosis" and one link was the following -
http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/products.htm
Can you confirm somthing like they sell from that site will remove the heavy metals? If so, I will buy the portable countertop version before moving to SH.
Thanks a lot! |
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hammerforlife
Low Seater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3303
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May 03, 2007 - 02:36 AM |
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Hi Portsmouth. Yep reverse osmosis is known as the best system to remove pretty much all contamination and that does include heavy metals (it is the only system that is capable of turning sea water into drinking water too). I don't know about that particular company but as they are RO they should be fine.
Just make sure that you chose the correct model and also maintain it properly. The problem with these things is that you cannot tell when the membrane is damaged and are therefore getting no treatment at all. |
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Portsmouth
Talker
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Shanghai
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May 03, 2007 - 05:35 AM |
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Thanks, Hammerforlife! Another question - the company also sells a TDS meter, "TDS meter- High quality pocket digital water meter to test your water quality before and after the ro system. So you know the system is working." Do you think that is sufficient for me to tell the membrane is in good shape?
Thanks again!  |
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hammerforlife
Low Seater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3303
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May 03, 2007 - 11:16 AM |
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To me a TDS (total disolved solids) meter seems to be the best practical way of checking whether things are working properly. If you go for 6 months and the meter is showing that 90% of disolved solids are being removed and then suddenly it goes down to 10% then you know you have a problem. |
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Portsmouth
Talker
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Shanghai
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May 03, 2007 - 11:30 AM |
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Thank you, Hammerforlife! I will give RO filter and TDS meter a try. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 03, 2007 - 11:47 AM |
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One issue with bringing an RO filter, or actually ANY filter from a first world country to use here is that the anticipated life of the filters will be way lower. Keep in mind that those filters are made for that market, where tap water is much cleaner and has different contaminants to worry about. If the particulate matter in the water is above a certain siZe and the filter is not set up to prefilter it out prior to RO filtration, the membrane will get damaged or lose efficiency much faster. In my talks with a few other water related specialists, they have all mentioned this as an issue with Japanese and some American filters they have brought over to use. Anyhow, just keep that in mind. I may have found a solution here but they are not well equipped to do business in English so I am trying to see if I can figure something out. But pricing for a built in under sink model with small reservoir tank and dedicated faucet seems to be around $450. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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Portsmouth
Talker
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Shanghai
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May 03, 2007 - 09:19 PM |
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Yu,
Thanks for the feedbacks! Will keep them in mind.
More questions:
1. When you said you might have found a local solution but they are not equipped to do business, do you mean you might have to sign contracts in Chinese and communicate with the engineers/technicians in Chinese?
2. What is the alternative to secure clean drinking water for kids if we don't want to spend $450 to build a filter? Does it mean to buy a lot of bottled water? Is there reputable company delivery bottled water? How much would we spend on bottled water for a family of four? (Since we will only spend 12 to 24 months in SH, I’m wondering if it is worth of spending the money to build a filter ourselves.)
Thanks again! |
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chingiskhan
Wonder Wit
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 3680
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 04, 2007 - 01:44 AM |
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Portsmouth, most people have water cooler machines (like in offices) and then get 18 litre bottles delivered from reputable suppliers like Nestle. Costs around 16 RMB but you have to pay a deposit for the bottles too which is around 40 RMB. If you buy enough vouchers some companies will supply the water cooler free. I bought mine for 450 rmb but that's because I won't be buying lots of water. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 04, 2007 - 02:10 AM |
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Plenty of Bottled water alternatives around as chingiskhan says. Cost ranges from 9rmb- 18 rmb per what looks like a 5 gallon bottle. Most households buy a water dispenser machine and order water. But I am looking into some filtration alternatives as kitchen useage of water is not just for consumption. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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JD
Ranter
Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 572
Status: Offline
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May 04, 2007 - 08:01 AM |
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Got interested in this topic and along the line googled a while to find that there is a water treatment exhibition here on July 11-14 at Shanghai Mart. There was another one on April 27-29
This company seems to provide all kinds of filters etc
http://www.canature-global.com/ |
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Rederic
Squeeker
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 17
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May 25, 2007 - 05:29 PM |
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Has anyone ever seen a quality comparison on bottled waters available in China or Shanghai? Please popst info if you have. Thanks
I've been in China a long time and have begun to wonder about the effects of being here and traveling the country for work for so long, 12 years. I once watched middle school students test a reservoir in Beijing. On the way back to the school they got smart and used the same ph test on the bottled waters they had along with them. Most brands were good but the surprise was that they didn't fare better.
Perhaps I'm paranoid but I stopped buying the big bottles. A) It seems the weakest link in keeping that water clean was the dispenser, which was a tough one to maintain in the humid Shanghai summer. B) Since I travel much, I just didn't drink those bottles fast enough. I began to think that there might be stuff growing in there while I am off in Qinghai for a month. I now buy the mid-size bottles and during the summer keep the open one in the refer.
just a thought |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 25, 2007 - 05:47 PM |
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pH tests only tell you the acidity/Alkalinity of the water, nothing about its purity. One would need a TDS tester to see how much "stuff" is in any particular water. Could work well for bottled water as you could test if they truly filtered out the minerals and other particulates but it would take a more elaborate test for testing for chemicals.
Your concerns about bottled water or ratehr the usage of bottled watter and the dispensers are valid. Regular cleaning helps minimize these issues but it is one of the weak links in the process. This is why i think a sealed RO filtration system that ends in a faucet may be the best bet. Sorry no news yet on sourcing the machine i plan to get...still working on it. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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LaVecchiaSignora
SuperStar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Posts: 1530
Status: Offline
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May 25, 2007 - 06:43 PM |
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Thank you so much for providing this information. After more than a decade in China, I am happy to read this information and actually follow up on my thoughts on issues like these. |
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I like walking in the rain because no one knows im crying |
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robnot
LoopKicker
Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 849
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May 25, 2007 - 11:44 PM |
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I think the water in china is very soft compared to what I'm used to.
In the UK, especially the south, you can't use a kettle for more than a few months without having to descale it,
here I've used the same kettle for nearly 5 years and I've never had to...
For the first year I was here I drank the tap water and never had any issues but have since stopped as I began to worry about the heavy metals. |
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Where there's a will, there's a relative |
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DesertSpider
Post Boaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4725
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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May 26, 2007 - 11:01 PM |
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It freezes at 32 dF and boils at 212 dF |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 27, 2007 - 10:10 AM |
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It freezes at 32 dF and boils at 212 dF
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or 0˚c / 100˚ c respectively for the rest of the world...
^ not if its full of pollutants it doesn't. |
_________________
The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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DesertSpider
Post Boaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4725
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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May 27, 2007 - 10:03 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| Quote: |
It freezes at 32 dF and boils at 212 dF
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or 0˚c / 100˚ c respectively for the rest of the world...
^ not if its full of pollutants it doesn't. |
True and true, I like throwing out the non-metric stuff to remind me of the U.S. hahahaha |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 28, 2007 - 08:23 AM |
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Speaking of pollutants, 583 ppm. Thats what we tested this weekend out of the tap in Jing An District. Compared to the 19ppm we got out of a new home water treatment unit I have been working to get available to us. According to many US water districts, the recommended range of particulates and minerals is supposed to be under 400ppm... and considering it comes from water districts, they probably already stretched the numbers a bit.  Drinking water industry numbers indicate a much lower tolerance of no more than 50ppm!
Further testing allowed us to see some of the breakdown of the contaminants included iron, lead, and chlorine, and others I could not translate. After seeing this, I am bathing my baby in drinking water until i can get something into the house for sure, AND obviously cooking with only drinking water too. Hoping to have some English info next week on this. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more
Last edited by yu888 on May 28, 2007 - 09:44 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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hammerforlife
Low Seater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3303
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May 28, 2007 - 08:55 AM |
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Yu how did you get the breakdown details to show that it contained iron, lead etc? Only a laboratory would usually be able to tell you that.
Doubtful if you could classify chlorine as a contaminant. If you didn't have any chlorine you should be more worried as then you could have bacteria. The iron most likely comes from the distribution pipes and is generally pretty harmless although it can make clothes a bit brown looking. Lead is a bit more worrying though although if you don't drink it it will not be a problem. For bathing I would be more concerned about the pH of the water for irritating babies skin. |
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hammerforlife
Low Seater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3303
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May 28, 2007 - 09:08 AM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| Speaking of pollutants, 568 ppm. |
Is that the dissolved solids figure (TDS?) or actually pollutants?
Interested to see the FDA classifications for mineral water.
"Mineral water is water from an underground source that contains at least 250 parts per million (ppm) of dissolved solids consisting of minerals and trace elements. Mineral content of 250-500 ppm is often called “low mineral content” or “light mineral water,” while content of 1500 ppm or greater is “high mineral content.” |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 28, 2007 - 10:14 AM |
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TDS...and i edited the number to 583 b/c i went back to look at my notes. :S
and yeah, they actually only showed me data on a test done with Jing An water for the break down. Cant translate names of elements and metals and such as i have never heard them before in Chinese...sorry. Only recognized Chlorine content was high, there was lots of iron content (pipes seem to be the most likely source), lead and what i think is arsenic?
As for pH of the water, it measured out to be 6.7, which is slightly acidic.
Well, the fact that there is so much chlorine in teh water disturbs me a bit as I know in our apartment, the water comes out yellowishh and defintiely smells like chlorine. Would be so much nicer if i can get some of it out as it not really that good for us...though I will take it anyday over bacteria. Its a necessary evil in our buildings that use storage tanks i guess...somehow I doubt these tanks are sealed ( afrtaid to look)
I would love to see what is considered "good mineral content" and what is not, levels and types... best to have minerals in the water we consume i suppose. |
_________________
The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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mrpango
Low Seater
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 3276
Status: Offline
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May 28, 2007 - 10:40 AM |
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Hmmm... I've been boiling tap water and drinking for a while now (since moving to Pudong). Is it the same water in the Pudong side as the Puxi side in the taps? |
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Well, may as well start a blog http://www.sinocracy.com/ - click at your leisure! |
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hammerforlife
Low Seater
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3303
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May 28, 2007 - 10:45 AM |
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| mrpango wrote: |
| Hmmm... I've been boiling tap water and drinking for a while now (since moving to Pudong). Is it the same water in the Pudong side as the Puxi side in the taps? |
Yep basically the same thing although the distribution pipes may be slightly better quality. Don't drink it! All boiling does is kill bacteria and there is enough chlorine to do that anyway so boiling is a waste of time. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19335
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 28, 2007 - 11:12 AM |
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not to mention boiling tap just increases the concentration of particulates as it reduces the H2O content while the actual solids inclduing heavy metals etc stays the same... |
_________________
The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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robnot
LoopKicker
Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Posts: 849
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May 28, 2007 - 11:30 AM |
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so you could add distilled water to our tap water to bring down the ppm's and make it potable, heheh. |
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Where there's a will, there's a relative |
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