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FTM

Reacher

Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 273

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Posted: Aug 19, 2007 - 07:56 PM
Post subject: For GUYS: Involvement in Childcare

Like many expats, I'm a trailing spouse. While I stay home as a full time mom, my husband continues to work after he gets home, when we're taking walks, eating out, shopping, etc. Thanks to Blackberry. Traveling often, days at a time, is expected.

I don't ask too much during the week since I don't want to add to his stress. However, on the weekends I do expect him to be able to care for the baby without my insisting--especially when I'm cooking or doing chores.

I don't have an ayi, but situation was the same when I had an ayi.

Do you think asking him to care for the baby for no more than 1.5 (max of 3) hours on a weekend is too much to ask? It is to him who immediately calls for reinforcements (uncles, parents).

Would like to hear from the guys.

IAmNotYao

Reacher

Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 226
Location: Lost
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Posted: Aug 19, 2007 - 08:36 PM

Working in China is not a walk in the park, and with that comes to time one spent at work...however, despite that I believe your husband should find the time to spend time with your baby...simple things such as changing diaper, etc. would add a lot...I hate to say it, if you have to insist, then he's first priority is not the baby or you...

yu888
Board Deity

Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18042
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH

Posted: Aug 19, 2007 - 10:28 PM

While my gut instinct is to come down hard on your husband, I can understand the challenge he faces in those 1.5 hours as even now, I still sometimes get all sweaty when I have to handle day-to-day stuff with my son solo.(ie changing diapers, etc) While mom is well versed in handling things, I need to handle it right for my son as well as hopefully in her eyes. From that perspective, I can understand calling for back up. And if that is the case, I do cut him a bit of slack as calling for back up is a really nice way of admitting he alone, might not be the best caretaker in that regard for your child.

That said though, no, 1.5 hours a week, heck 1.5 hours every couple of days is reasonable for you to expect Dad to be...well, Dad. I work at a local start up and believe me, managing the politics and staff in a Chinese company is no picnic. Working some start-up hours, I still try my best to get home to play with my son nightly and on weekends, I pretty much spend the entire two days with my wife and son. Anyhow, if he calls in backup, that's fine. So long as you get your break. And if so, take a few more hours while you are at it...you deserve it.

Cheers.

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samcy

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Joined: July 26, 2007
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 01:06 AM

Make him bond with the child since it is his child.
Chore will not be chore anymore.

The greatest pleasure I had when I was back from work was to look at the baby (the baby would smile and try to communicate). That's why I fed the baby during the midnight shift. Rock the baby to sleep during the mid night shift. Change his diaper. Make milk for him etc. (My wife is a working mom)

Fast forward 7 years to today and when I think of it, the chore is actually a pleasure that I would not want to miss.

Victorian

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Joined: May 03, 2004
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 01:35 AM

Look at the situation from another point of view.

I used to bath my son everyday from birth until he could shower/bath himself properly. When he was older, we used to water fight in the shower or played with boats in bath. It was years ago and he's now 9. I enjoyed and treasured every moment of the one to one time we had. My wife also had 2 nights of badminton (or night out) during weekdays per week before we moved to Shanghai in 2004.

Your husband should try to spend time with your baby as much as possible to build the bonding before he/she grows up. Bond building has to start at very early age.

GC
The Ginger Prince

Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 21536

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 07:33 AM

As you're asking for a 'guys' point of view, then no, i don't think you asking for 1.5-3 hours to yourself is unreasonable. But, and there's always a but, you don't really provide enough information. Some expats are paid big money to be available 24/7, it's the thing that funds the meals at top restaurants.

Where are you both from? Whats his job? Do you like Snow Patrol?

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shanghaiceltic

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Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 7618
Location: Perth WA
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 08:01 AM

I don't think it is unreasonable.

When we lived in the UK we both my first wife and I worked so we shared the childcare between us. When we were in Japan she was the trailing spouse. But spending time with my son was still on the books. Gave me a sanity break from the work. It also gave me time with him that I did not know was going to finish when we divorced and they went off to NZ to live. For a 4 year period we I did not see him, that was not good. I had financial issues and could not afford the visits.

Things are OK now and we get together every year. He is now 22.

Your husband needs to make the best time of it, you never know whats coming around the corner.

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hammerforlife
Fire-eater

Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2701

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 08:50 AM
Post subject: Re: For GUYS: Involvement in Childcare

FTM wrote:

Do you think asking him to care for the baby for no more than 1.5 (max of 3) hours on a weekend is too much to ask? It is to him who immediately calls for reinforcements (uncles, parents).

No 3 hours on a weekend is not too much to ask for at all. You do mention that the situation was the same when you had an ayi. Perhaps when you had an ayi he got used to you and the ayi taking care of the baby and that where it stems from?

Ok he does work hard but so do most of us out here. We have to balance our lives sometimes but it doesn't mean we have to abandon our families either.

Adam7

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Joined: May 11, 2004
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 09:07 AM

I'm going to post another point of view, but before I do I'd like to state that as a dad of 2 the most enjoyable times I have in the week is time with the kids on the weekends. I bath the older one every night when I get home, get her in bed, read stories, etc.

However what ticks me off is that on the weekend I am expected to replace the Aiyi. My wife has gotten so used to having someone to boss around that she does the same to me. That is totally uncool.

So maybe you just need to let him be, find his own way of spending time with the kids rather than doing it your way?

Just my point of view.

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hammerforlife
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Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2701

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 09:23 AM

Adam7 wrote:

However what ticks me off is that on the weekend I am expected to replace the Aiyi. My wife has gotten so used to having someone to boss around that she does the same to me. That is totally uncool.

Speaking from experience that's also a very valid point!

CaptainCook

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Joined: Mar 20, 2007
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 09:33 AM

3 hours is NOT too much to ask for ....but I do agreed with Adam7.

I think you should nurse/coach him back into the routine rather than leave him to struggle by himself. If he sees it as a chore, then a chore it will always be! I believe that if you get him to be with you while you're with your baby, he will enjoys the time with the baby much more and will eventually love to spend time with the baby and the chore will not be a chore anymore. Once he is hooked with the baby's smiles and the interactions...... well, you know the rest Wink

Good luck!

FTM

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Joined: Apr 15, 2007
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:07 AM

hammerforlife wrote:

Adam7 wrote:

However what ticks me off is that on the weekend I am expected to replace the Aiyi. My wife has gotten so used to having someone to boss around that she does the same to me. That is totally uncool.

Speaking from experience that's also a very valid point!

I didn't want to rely on the ayi and become dependent on her help because I expected that she wouldn't last. So, I took my baby out when I went out for lunch with friends, or I'd take the ayi out with us and I never asked the ayi to watch the baby while I went out for spa or salons...no way.

All I want is for my husband to watch the baby when I'm cooking, cleaning or stay home alone with her when I have to go to Carrefour. I'm not asking for spa retreats.

He can call his family for help. But when I come home and find that he's sleeping I realize he'd been napping the whole time. Many times, I've observed that as soon as "help" gets there, he plops himself down on the couch.

He insists on hiring a new ayi. He believes this'll eliminate my weekend baby-care requests. Should the ayi replace "daddy time"? Now, that's totally uncool.

hammerforlife
Fire-eater

Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2701

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:14 AM

FTM wrote:

Should the ayi replace "daddy time"? Now, that's totally uncool.

Totally agree.

kimmie

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Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 256

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:26 AM

Sniff, sniff... I'm getting all misty-eyed reading all the dad's responses about the fleeting time one has to bond with one's child before it's too late.

Reminds me of that poignant Harry Chapin song "Cat's in the Cradle" and how in the end the dad reaped what he sowed in his relationship with his son. This of course applies to all parent/child relationships. FTM, I know you asked for dad's opinions, but I highly recommend he listen to that wonderful song and hopefully the message will be taken.

FTM

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:26 AM

GC wrote:

I understand my husbands job is demanding, so I urge him to get massages and take long baths whenever he can--I'm happy if he can do this daily.

The most expensive restaurant I've been to...Moon River. Been there 3 times since arriving here in April.

I thought Snow Patrol was a cartoon for babies. Smile

Adam7

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:30 AM

Really is a tough one. I do understand wanting some time to chill out, I personally find it hard after a full week to spend the whole weekend chasing kids. However I do love spending time with my kids, weather that is fun outings or changing nappies.

We were struggling with this also and made the decision to get the AiYi to work on Sat as well. So every Sat I have the morning to myself and the wife has the afternoon. Then Sunday is family day where we all do things together.

How old is your kid?

Not sure if that's the solution for you? Maybe you can try to get him to organize a 'family day' if he's set it up he will be involved and interested?

Also, one final word of advice, don't push too hard, don't coach, or cajole or nurse him. Let him do it himself or you'll just push him away.

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FTM

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:33 AM

kimmie...so true.

Scouse

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Joined: May 30, 2007
Posts: 274
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:34 AM

i always believe in spending quality time with ours, cant understand how other dads can cring on just 1.5 hours a week? sometimes when i get home late and she's sleeping, i get woken up by her early morning which i dont mind at all, there is no excuse for a father not spending time with his kids, thats my opinion anyways..

Cheers

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CaptainCook

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 11:42 AM

FTM wrote:

All I want is for my husband to watch the baby when I'm cooking, cleaning or stay home alone with her when I have to go to Carrefour. I'm not asking for spa retreats.

FTM, sorry but these just sound like chores to me. As I said above, you got to make it so it doesn't sound like chores and really coach him into it slowly. He will enjoys it once he is hooked!

hautumncloud
LoopKicker

Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 12:01 PM

I know FTM asked for opinions from the dads...., I hope you will not mind my posting here as I too am a trailing spouse.

It seems that this can be broken down to 2 issues:-

1. Have a break for yourself - a must for a fulltime stay-home parent.

2. Having your baby bond with dad.

I would say getting an ayi or calling back-up will resolve problem #1.

As for #2, as some dads have suggested.....make bonding with your baby fun, NOT a chore or replacing what you/ayi do. From experience, when my hubby have a bath with my son...its more work for me as the bathroom will be a mess when they are done. But then its ok cos the main point is they had fun together. Then there is quantity versus quality time and perspective of the both.

I guess to sum it up....what Captain Cook suggested is right on.

Too, bear in mind, aside from responsibilities from work, not every man is good with babies like the dads who contributed to this thread, even their own especially their first one. I witness this in our extended family member...took him 4 kids before coming round!

Adam7

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 12:03 PM

Scouse wrote:

Second that!

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Robtcb

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Joined: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 03:05 PM

Okay, my wife asks me this all the time (those of you who frequent ShanghaiMamas know who I am). Just my opinions, if you don't like them, feel free to flame me. My thoughts are this:

If a husband/father doesn't want to spend every available moment with their wife and child, then something's wrong with that husband/father. Why the hell did you have a kid if you weren't willing and prepared to spend all available time with that child ? If you need sleep or rest, then do it when the kid is sleeping or resting.

If the job doesn't allow the husband/father to have much available time with the child, then time to change jobs. Period.

If the wife doesn't support the husband changing jobs and possibly getting fewer perks, then tough cookies....she's part of the problem. The wife can't complain about a husband working 80 hours a week for a western multi-national, but then be un-willing to take less pay or a non-expat assignment if he switches to a lower-level, lower expectation job.

Last, for the wives: if your husbands agree to start helping out more and spending more time with their children, then LEAVE THEM ALONE ! They are not the ayi's, they are the fathers. Don't micro-manage, don't hover. Being a father means being an equal partner in raising a child. That means that if he wants to do something his own way, even if it bugs the hell out of you, let him do it as long as it is not truly harmful to the child.

Stepping off the soapbox now....

FTM

Reacher

Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 273

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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 06:55 PM

My husband loves the baby to bits and he even enjoys sleeping with her. Bonding's not the problem.

My husband knows what the baby can and cannot have. No coke (I know. I stopped by MIL when she put her cup to baby's mouth), no ice cream and no shrimp. I want my husband to be aware of what's going on when my MIL or uncles are caring for the baby. This is why I dislike to learn that he slept and/or did other things the entire time.

So, how can you ask "Can you watch the baby while I go to Carrefour?" so it doesn't seem like a chore?

Georgie

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Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 469
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Posted: Aug 20, 2007 - 07:09 PM

FTM - am just wondering if you are a trailing spouse/expat how come your relatives are here as well - and do they live with you?

I'm just trying to figure out where you are from. If he has been bought up where it is the role of the mother to be the main child care provider then it might have a bearing on why he is acting the way he does.