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bimJob
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 111
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Sep 24, 2007 - 04:15 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Why believe in God? Why have a religion? |
This can be a good discussion if we keep insults out of it, and really break it down.
After posting on that View thread I thought it would be appropriate to simply ask people of the 21st century, what is the point of believing in God?
God is defined here as the God of the Old and New Testament. Incidentally, they seem like 2 different characters to me, one being aggressive and one being more loving.
But really. I am a strong believer of a single consciousness, or true compassion that permeates the universe. One love. I feel guided in life. I believe in a Source. But why do we have to continue with the concept of God? It takes the power away from you. You are putting your power into a mythological deity. The power is within you and me and throughout everywhere.
Have you ever read the Old Testament? God in that book, Jehova, is downright mean and evil. Why worship that?
The world would move on so much quicker if we just dropped the whole God thing. And please, can someone explain to me why Chinese people bow to statues of Buddha? What is this?
Maybe this is the dark ages, and in like 3200 we'll be in a more enlightened time. I don't know. But most of the world is on their knees bowing to some deity that only exists in their minds or characters in a book.. Not even real. Some of these people are willing to kill in the name of a God that doesn't even exist!
When we should be loving each other as reflections of ourselves.
It makes me want to cry. |
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CoffeeHawk_0
Board Buddha
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 14444
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Sep 24, 2007 - 07:33 PM |
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Faith based religions are self-hypnosis. Some people are OK with that, some people like the pursuit of reality.
Budhists and Hindus 'bow' out of respect for what those people did while they were on this earth, not because they are told to like sheep of a flock. |
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bellabella
Gypsy Queen
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 14989
Location: London
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 05:06 AM |
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I have always been pretty much anti-religion, I think it has mostly caused a lot of fighting and unhappiness. It generally doesn't seem to be a very clear way of living life, religion seems to mess everything up.
But today I went to a funeral, it was a catholic funeral with prayers, blessings and hymns. and I can actually see why some people go to church. It was really sad and emotional (obviously) and I actually got some comfort from the prayer and hymns. It might just have been because of the quiet calm atmosphere, but it gave me some peace, it made me think about maybe going to church once in a while - which is something i never ever would have thought i would have contemplated.
but what i mean is that I, who am or was completely against organised religion of any kind, can actually see that it can bring comfort to some people. i don't know or even think that god exists, but i don't think that really matters, if something can bring you some kind of peace and happiness with your life as it is then surely that can only be a good thing. It's when it becomes corrupt and political that it fcuks it up. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18042
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Sep 25, 2007 - 09:01 AM |
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Lotta
Rocker
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 694
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Sep 25, 2007 - 09:10 AM |
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Bella put it really well .
If one believes in God, it gives them some peace of mind, since many things are out of our control - and instead of getting stressed out at that, it is nice to think that, there is someone up there, who might take care of it...
When you go to a place of worship, the prayers of all the people have created some positive energy in the place, which makes you feel at peace. |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Sep 25, 2007 - 09:36 AM |
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What I can't understand is athiests who want to do away with religion altogether - which seems to me to be a very intolerant and unfair stance. |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5291
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 09:56 AM |
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| God is defined here |
This is part of the problem. We try to define something which is undefinable, or which, by many definitions, is all inclusive. Organized religion needs to package God into something that most people can relate to.
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I can actually see why some people go to church |
I think that humans have a need that is met by religion. Most religions have ceremony or rituals to mark key passages in life.. birth, coming of age, marriage, death. They provide a sense of community. Most religions provide a moral compass ( not saying all moral compasses are calibrated - http://shanghaiist.com/2007/09/25/god_hates_china.php ). Most of all, I think people need to feel some order to the way the world works and that some larger intelligence or plan is at work. they need to feel apart of the something more than what they can see in front of them)
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athiests who want to do away with religion altogether
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The people I know of who are atheists, do not want to do away with religion. Mostly they just want to be left alone and argue the tenets of religion based on rationality. Most organized religions are about faith and most of us have not yet figured out how to hold faith and rationality in the same cup.
I also do not believe in God as giant guy in the sky with big white beard and divine meat axe. But I do believe in something more than what we see in front of us. |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Sep 25, 2007 - 10:26 AM |
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| The people I know of who are atheists, do not want to do away with religion. |
Yes, but those are the athiests you know. What about about traditional athiesism as a world view. Communism had a devastating effect on the Church and consequently the societies and economies of Eastern Europe. When Marx said "Religion is the opium of the masses" he was dead right. Opium is a medicine. It gives people strength to cope with suffering and pain. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18042
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Sep 25, 2007 - 10:38 AM |
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8lrr8
StreetBeater
Joined: Oct 14, 2004
Posts: 2344
Location: here!
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Sep 25, 2007 - 10:44 AM |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Sep 25, 2007 - 10:45 AM |
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Yep. I believe in the power of prayer (although I'm not God-botherer). I have seen how it helps people survive cancer and stuff. |
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Swiss-James
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2502
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 10:56 AM |
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I believe in Blaise Pascal's idea about a God-shaped hole in every man, but not in God.
When it comes to the big questions, science and reason only get you as far as "How" religion provides the "Why" |
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bimJob
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 111
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:02 AM |
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| CoffeeHawk_0 wrote: |
Budhists and Hindus 'bow' out of respect for what those people did while they were on this earth, not because they are told to like sheep of a flock. |
This is completely untrue. Buddhists aren't bowing to Buddha over and over again out of respect. Hindus and Buddhists are sheep like every other religion. What are you talking about? |
Last edited by bimJob on Sep 25, 2007 - 11:03 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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wolfy
Fire-eater
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2510
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:03 AM |
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I believe in Mohammed Naguib's idea that religion is a candle inside a multicoloured lantern. Everyone looks through a particular color, but the candle is always there. |
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Good old English spirit! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MG27BKwjaI |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:07 AM |
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^ nice way to express the concept. |
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bimJob
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 111
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:08 AM |
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Everyone here has said great stuff. Real good.
The focus was though about the God of the Old and New Testament. The Judeao-Christian God. Not only do I see no reason to believe in this, I think we are better of not believing in it. But I don't mean being atheist. I mean leaving the Judeao-Christian God and finding the source within and the connection to all beings, and then, and only then, could we have peace. |
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Swiss-James
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2502
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:11 AM |
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it sounds more like you want to start a new religion, rather then abolish the old ones |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:17 AM |
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Perhaps the thread title should remove "Why have a religion?" if the responces are to be limited to the Judeao-Christian perspective?
If Buddhaism is introduced to the topic, then the exclusion of other beliefs seems contraditory to the original premise of the topic.
But it would be fantastic is people were able to converse rather than attack. Far too much of that happening... |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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bimJob
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 111
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:21 AM |
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Maybe establish a new belief system based on interconnectedness, but not a religion filled with rituals and dogma.
Like some people said here, if it brings some people happiness, than they should do it. Eating tacos makes me happy. If going to church or synagogue brings someone peace, then they should continue it.
I wonder what would happen if the fraud of the biblical stories were exposed. What if Christians discovered their religion was basically re-formed Paganism, based on a much older story dating back thousands of years before Christ supposedly existed. Would these people still find happiness and peace in Church? I wonder... |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:23 AM |
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A.G.E.N.D.A. |
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BOYCOTT BENSON SALON |
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bimJob
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 111
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:29 AM |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31083
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Sep 25, 2007 - 11:35 AM |
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Or manipulation.
I shall bow out now. The original topic didn't even stick to it's own topic and there are too many hints of pot-stirring in subsuquent posts. Enjoy the discussion, lopsided as though it may be. |
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DesertSpider
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4417
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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Sep 25, 2007 - 12:12 PM |
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No, I agree w/ Mag on this - you're slanting this discussion to feed your perspective. |
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bimJob
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2007
Posts: 111
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 12:56 PM |
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I apologize, that wasn't my intention at all. You misunderstood me.
The thread began with why have a religion or believe in God, and I defined what "God" means at the top.
Then people said it makes some people happy and they feel peace.
Then I rebutted with wondering what that source of that peace and happiness comes from. Is it an illusion, coming from ignorance? Is this happiness true or bullshiit? If religious people thought it through, would they still have that peace and happiness? Which wraps right back to why focus on "God"? |
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Goosie
Board Grand Dame
Joined: July 16, 2003
Posts: 4776
Location: Singapore
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2007 - 12:57 PM |
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When Marx said "Religion is the opium of the masses" he was dead right.
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For once Wolfy and I agree on something. Or maybe it's Karl I'm agreeing with. |
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Nemesis of Political Correctness |
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