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angelus512
Reacher
Joined: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 309
Location: Your house stealing your stuff
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Oct 08, 2007 - 02:59 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Noise factor in Apartments |
HI just wondering what people's experiences are with the apartments in Shanghai?
Probably looking to spend between 6K RMB - 9KRMB per month on a proper place.
My only query is how decent the soundproofing is in the apartments built in Shanghai?
I don't want to be trying to sleep and being able to hear all my neighbours on the same floor as me.
Please post thoughts/experiences many thanks |
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One_Brick_Shy
Rocker
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: Out looking for a brick, of course.
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 03:05 PM |
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No matter the rent, still all just bricks, rebar and concrete. Noise can come from a few floors down. Also depends on your neighbours. If they are too noisy just ask them to lower the noise a bit. Sometimes you will find the fan on the air conditioner your best friend as it masks a lot of the smaller noises. Works for me. |
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fortune_nookie
Reacher
Joined: Apr 07, 2003
Posts: 295
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Oct 08, 2007 - 03:27 PM |
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I live in an older building and my neighbors are very quiet. The ones that are actually here that is. The building is quite sound proof for normal day noise.
The problem I have had for the past 18 months in this place, is the refurbishing that is taking place. No sooner do they get one apartment done and another starts. Some take as long a four months and all have been completly stripped down to the bare concrete, newpipes installed and wiring as well. The nosie from the hammers is a pain in the butt and can easily be heard 4 floors away. I work out of my house so it is all day long. I expect it during the day but NOT at 07:00 on Sunday mornings.
The workers start as early as 06:30 7 days a week, building management is pretty useless as is security. 5 minutes after security yells at them they start again. If you live in a better place they will shut them down and turn off the electricity to the house if they continue to "break the rules" and make noise before 08:30 or after 17:30.
When I lived in Ambassy court they really enforced this rule, where I am now it is like the rest of China, plenty of rule just no enforcement.
So basically, make sure your building managerment enforces the noise rule on the construction teams. The ambient nosie is very little. |
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freeman2007
Reacher
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 342
Location: connecticut
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 03:31 PM |
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i find out that in shanghai and it is not only in shanghai or in china as a matter of fact.
the building of houses is cheap and sometimes you can hear the guy next door when he goes bathroom/do his laundry/cooking............... not mentiuonning at night when he entertain ladies but this noise is ok hahahaha
so no surprises if you find out that even the most expensive houses are noisy some are better built but still always noises around
chinese people can not live without noises and they do a good job at it.
anyway i am sure there are many places not noisy but i did not find where they are yet.
good luck |
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Oilman
Reacher
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 296
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 03:39 PM |
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I have to agree it is the luck of the draw with neighbors, but you can help yourself by taking a higher floor. The traffic on some roads can be heavy and a lot of honking in intersections as well as the low frequency rumble of the big dirt moving trucks that race around the city at night can be obnoxious at times. In my apartment, the guy upstairs gets freaky sometimes on the weekends, but thank goodness he has a quick trigger and only lasts around 30 secs. to one minute.  |
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will5967
Newbie
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 2
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 04:42 PM |
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| Post subject: That ain't the half of it! |
I've only been in Shanghai for a month and unfortunately, I'm on my second apartment! I would have to agree that there is a ridiculous amount of noise here. The first apartment my previous employer pretty much forced me into (because the landlord came to her and she didn't have to pay the real estate fee...) was noisy as hell. It was on the third floor, but it was right next to one of the narrowest and busiest streets in the downtown area, in the French Concession. Constant horn honking, day and night, guys riding by on bicycles, ringing bells and shouting this and that, recorded department store adverts blaring about having computers, washing machines and everything else for sale, almost every move the neigbhors made was quite audible AND people at street level, shouting at one another. Or were they just holding everyday conversations? It's not always easy to tell in China!
I lived in Taiwan for more than five years, so I thought I could take it. "Shanghai's now more developed than Taipei!" everyone said. Uuuhhhhh... No, it's not. There are a lot more tall buildings here, but even now that I'm on the 11th floor in a new place, it's still pretty noisy. The plus side is that it's not AS noisy and this apartment wasn't nearly as dirty when I moved in as the last one was. That place was filthy! Even the inside walls of the freezer were caked with grease or oil or... slime? How the FREEZER got so dirty, I will never know! Couldn't sleep on the bed for the first week or so. The mattress was all pushed in from the metal bar braces from the frame underneath. I turned it over to the side that was still mostly white (not brown from years of dirt), but the depressions left by the frame were so deep, it was hard to sleep on.
The landlord finally agreed to replace the mattress with a "new" one. Right.... The "new" one came with stuffing popping out on the sides, but it was at least much cleaner than the old one. But wouldn't you know it? The mattress was the wrong size! The landlord and his helper FORCED it down into the metal frame, right there on the spot! Within a few hours, the frame legs at the foot of the bed had started to give way. I complained. The landlord hired a fix-it guy who extended the frame on the sides by putting old wood blocks in as extensions.
Watching the process was a riot! The fix-it guy kept complaining that the bed was now dangerous, but the landlord would totally balk and tell him to just fix it and stop complaining. Okay. I'm off topic now, but there is A LOT more. Naturally, the noise and the fact that the AC, the shower, the washing machine AND even the toilet wouldn't work properly meant that after a few weeks, I just about collapsed in class from stress and lack of sleep. Naturally, nobody was willing to lose face by taking the blame for putting me in an apartment like that, and just to save the real estate agent fee. I agree the fee can be ridiculous when you consider that in most Western countries you can simply buy a newspaper and call the damn landlord yourself, but the rules... well... there aren't actually any rules... or... there are supposed to be... are different here. Anyway, now I can sleep with earplugs and at least the AC works. The freezer door is ajar and won't seal... but otherwise... I didn't have to pay the real estate fee because I found the apartment on ShanghaiExpat.com! One day at a time, I guess. Certainly, this apartment (though still noisy), is much, much better than the last. |
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freeman2007
Reacher
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 342
Location: connecticut
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 05:09 PM |
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sorry to hear that but you can buy a newspaper and call the landlord yourself here too you just have to speak chinese
as for the state of the place you discribe how the hell did you get into this? was it a chinese apartment?? must have been i do not think any western houses wouyld look lioke that or they would have clean it before you move in to start with.
who got you this place? how much did it cost a month? how come you got such a place anyway.
you mentionned school i assume you are either studient or teacher????? |
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ULNBcn
Barker
Joined: June 04, 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 05:17 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: That ain't the half of it! |
| will5967 wrote: |
| Naturally, nobody was willing to lose face by taking the blame for putting me in an apartment like that, and just to save the real estate agent fee. I agree the fee can be ridiculous when you consider that in most Western countries you can simply buy a newspaper and call the damn landlord yourself, but the rules... |
Hey, I don't know where you come from but in the western countries where I have rented out a house (Europe), most of the ads you see on the newspaper are actually agencies. Many a time so cheeky that they don't admit it until the last moment. |
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nettyli
LoopKicker
Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 947
Status: Offline
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Oct 08, 2007 - 06:20 PM |
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Unfortunately, I had terrible experiences with noises in our apartment block. The insulation was terrible. It was less neighbours on the same floor, but more those upstairs. Other friends had the same problem, and just from visiting/being in different offices, spas...they all have terrible insulation. Just something you have to put up with. |
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will5967
Newbie
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 2
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 12:21 AM |
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Actually, I do speak Chinese, but I don't read it all that well. I lived in Taiwan several years ago and didn't have much chance to practice back in the U.S. Also, as I'm sure you know, written Chinese in Taiwan is Traditional, not Simplified, so I'm also having to switch over to that.
Anyway, the girl at the agency who hired me and put me in the apartment kept telling me it was "impossible" to just look in the newspaper to find an apartment in China. I heard the word "impossible" a lot in Taiwan too. That, and the Chinese equivalent for "There's nothing that can be done about it." In any case, she didn't give me much of a choice. The other choice was to keep paying for the Jin Jiang Star Hotel I was in and that wasn't real quiet either and I'm just not as rich as I'd like to be as of yet, shall we say.
I told her that apartment was dirty, but she insisted that if I thought that place was dirty, I would think every apartment in China was dirty. Kept repeatedly telling me, "This is NOT the U.S. or Taiwan." Okay. Granted, but I visited a friend in Pudong last week and it was NOT dirty! Is she suggesting that ALL Chinese are dirty? I don't think so and more than anything, I think she just didn't have to live there, so it was a done deal for her. I saw plenty of clean homes in Taiwan (where most of the people ARE Chinese - at least by lineage). Of course, they didn't give a crap if there was garbage piled high right outside the window, but INSIDE it was clean. I think this gal just wanted to save money on the real estate agent (which she claimed was the ONLY way) and wanted me right in the center of the city so I could teach in 3 different, rather far flung locations each week. Naturally, that didn't last real long.
Yes, the landlord was Chinese, but I've had much better Chinese landlords. The rent was 3000 RMB. I am now paying only 2100 RMB and it's much cleaner and quieter (though not as quiet as it could be - of course). I DO realize this isn't the U.S. (and don't wish to have my intelligence insulted repeatedly on this subject) and buildings are pretty much cheap brick, concrete and rebar in Taiwan too, but I NEVER saw anything this dirty in Taiwan and I lived in 3 different major cities on the island at different times and NOT just in showboat Taipei. In fact, probably the cleanest apartment I lived in was in Chia-yi (West/Central Taiwan). Well... until the big quake hit and put a really, really, really loooong crack in the wall and put the entire building in a Tower of Pisa stance!
I'm a teacher with a lot of ESL teaching experience and I've NEVER nearly passed out from exhaustion, fatigue and just general lack of sleep in a class before. I'd say weather in Taiwan is even hotter and stickier, particularly in Kaohsiung (Southern port city - 2nd largest). I think this girl knew what she'd done when it was all over, but she wants to keep her job and avoid embarrassment with HER boss. It's easiest to say that I was unsuitable to live in China and tell everyone I've gone back to the U.S. In fact, that same week, I met up with a fellow Yank and his Chinese wife. They said that Shanghai is full of totally inexperienced young people trying to make their way here in the big city. She was definitely inexperienced. She meant well, but really bunged this one up. I had no harsh words for her, but I definitely should have been more insistent - even demanding. Does anybody else have that problem? I tell someone here I need this or that and I am going to do this or that and they just argue with me and even push me to do what they decide - make another choice for me. I was told in Taiwan that it's a Chinese way of showing your familial care for someone in your charge. Problem is, sometimes... your pet dies and you just don't realize that you're the one who killed it. People do that to aquarium fish a lot because they aren't mammals and have totally different environmental needs. Well... it would have been nice if the AC had worked during this past really hot weather and while I was still trying to get over jet lag.
Maybe a topic for another thread, but a good example is: I told her I needed a scooter, if she wanted me to go to so many different schools. She said, "Impossible." I rode a damn scooter in Taiwan for more than five years *(where I rode to far flung regions where kids could only say "Hello!" "Apple" and "F--k!" in English) and I am here to tell the tale! The first year, I got quite scraped up trying to the learn the "no rules" rules, but later, I was a pro. Even had a Taiwanese Driver License. I've seen no worse here. Seldom had to - or WISHED to take a taxi in Taiwan - the other China - and buses are an over-crowded, hassle and half the time, you have to walk half the distance just to get to the darn bus stop.
Listen, Lady! Lassie's try'n to tell you something! |
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angelus512
Reacher
Joined: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 309
Location: Your house stealing your stuff
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 09:04 AM |
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Well thanks for all the responses thus far. Very interesting and at times disturbing recounts.
However I would like to point out that I am happy enough to spend up to 9,000RMB per month perhaps a shade more but only if the situation calls for it.
For 9,000 p/m its not like its going to be a palace like say 15K-20K would get you but I would imagine it would be pretty decent.
Hell a 1bedder in Top of City costs 9K RMB.
So i'm very much hoping 9K rmb will remove a lot of the problems posted above. |
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One_Brick_Shy
Rocker
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 765
Location: Out looking for a brick, of course.
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 09:38 AM |
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Hummm... Nine thousand a month. Think with a bit of a down payment that much might work as a mortgage payment. Then your rent is paying you not your landlard... unless you only plan to stay a short time. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18043
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 09, 2007 - 10:19 AM |
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There are plenty of apartments in the 6k-9k rmb range that are clean and fine. As I have met many locals and expats along the way in my past 5 years here, I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that many nice places exist even within the inner ring road that fit thay price range. One friend lives in an older complex but the inside of the place was recently redone and his rent for a 1 bedroom is less than 3000rmb in the heart of Jing An. Another has a 3 bedroom 2 bath place with a creek view for less than 6000rmb. I rented out my brand new top-floor 2 bedroom 1.5 bath place near Zhong Shan park for 7000rmb and there are plenty of other units in that complex for less (mine was top floor so less noise and well equipped with properly sized AC, washer dryer etc...so a bit more than lower floor units)
Just depends on your requirements. I also know of families living in penthouses renting for over 45k a month and villas for even more. But seriousl, apartments in the 6-9k range is totally reasonable, you just need to do the legwork and not end up being herded around like will5967 up there, who shared his unfortunate expereince with inexpereince.
Goodluck! |
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LaVecchiaSignora
SuperStar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Posts: 1531
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 11:07 AM |
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| will5967 wrote: |
| I'm a teacher... |
You should've put this on top, to save me some time reading your story. Do you really think Taiwan is China (and I am not talking about politics)?
Keep complaining, you'll never adjust to China. But you are correct on the fact that you should insist on your demands.
For OP, 9K should be enough to get a decent place. But by decent, you mean as quiet as possible right? To be honest, it also depends on your neighbours, not only the quality of the building, etc. To be safe, go for a newer building/environment/location, read more of the topics in the relocation and moving section and you will be fine. |
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nettyli
LoopKicker
Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 947
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 11:42 AM |
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But make sure the building is not so new, that there are still empty flats just waiting to be renovated..like we did...it was hell |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18043
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 09, 2007 - 12:35 PM |
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right, no new buildings, and not at the 3-5 year mark either as the rennovations here only last about that long. I rennovated my second hand place partially in 2004 and will be doing another partial to fix stuff this month when babyyu is away for a few weeks. And I had a GOOD contruction company and bought all my own materials...i cannot imagine how bad it would have been had I not been the one to specify all the materials and inspect them. |
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Oilman
Reacher
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 296
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 01:06 PM |
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Even paying 18K a month will not insure you peaceful nights. Remodelling has to be the worst of all because that drill they use shakes the whole floor above. I am not even sure what they are doing, I can't imagine having to drill that many holes in a floor. Cross your fingers and follow the advice aboe and you will have your best chance for success. |
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Sorry, I somehow sometimes is an illiterate~~~~~~~ |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18043
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 09, 2007 - 02:58 PM |
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actually, most of us have probably never lived in solid concrete and steel buildings that are so thin and rigid before. Last time i had my place renovated I could hear the pounding 12 floors down.  sorry neighbors. |
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Oilman
Reacher
Joined: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 296
Location: Xu Jia Hui
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 03:10 PM |
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YU, I agree with that statement, but I did live in a concrete building in the states for a while. The biggest difference being mostly carpet and occassionally vinyl in apartments in the states. These composite wood decking floors are extremely rigid. Just like Pergo back home, if you drop a glass on it, it is definitely broken. This density almost amplifies the sound from a chair sliding or someones high heel shoes. I haven't seen too many apartments with carpeting in my search for an apartment. Sometimes in the bedroom, but very rare. |
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Sorry, I somehow sometimes is an illiterate~~~~~~~ |
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CaptainCook
Rocker
Joined: Mar 20, 2007
Posts: 684
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 03:37 PM |
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To the OP, 9k will give you plenty of options for locations and reasonable Chinese built quality apartment. Like many have said, go high and away from the main streets. The rest is "luck of the draw" as most of the building in Shanghai are poorly insulated.....no underlaid for timber flooring, no cavities in walls, thin walls and floor, continuous floor-walls-columns construction which maximises sound transmission..... However, if you have the time you can go and test the apartment for sound insulation quality prior to renting the place. Needless to say that you do not just take the real estate agent's words for it as most of them don't live in these complexes and will all have different (higher) tolerances to noise. |
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CaptainCook
Rocker
Joined: Mar 20, 2007
Posts: 684
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 03:39 PM |
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| yu888 wrote: |
| right, no new buildings, and not at the 3-5 year mark either as the rennovations here only last about that long. I rennovated my second hand place partially in 2004 and will be doing another partial to fix stuff this month when babyyu is away for a few weeks. And I had a GOOD contruction company and bought all my own materials...i cannot imagine how bad it would have been had I not been the one to specify all the materials and inspect them. |
Yu.... you can't learnt on the job.... you need a good PROFESSIONAL Project Manager on the job  |
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CaptainCook
Rocker
Joined: Mar 20, 2007
Posts: 684
Status: Offline
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Oct 09, 2007 - 03:46 PM |
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| Oilman wrote: |
| YU, I agree with that statement, but I did live in a concrete building in the states for a while. The biggest difference being mostly carpet and occassionally vinyl in apartments in the states. These composite wood decking floors are extremely rigid. Just like Pergo back home, if you drop a glass on it, it is definitely broken. This density almost amplifies the sound from a chair sliding or someones high heel shoes. I haven't seen too many apartments with carpeting in my search for an apartment. Sometimes in the bedroom, but very rare. |
Wooden floors are OK if they have good underlaid and good expansion joints. Also, it would help to extend the life of the floor if they put a good sealant on the top and stop using a wet mob on it everyday. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18043
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Oct 09, 2007 - 03:49 PM |
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regarding carpeting...in a humid climate like this, unless i climate controlled my place 24/7 year round, the carpet would get pretty damned disgusting quickly here, especially combined with the dust levels here...yuck. as much as i love my plush carpets...its hardwood for me here. |
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Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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angelus512
Reacher
Joined: Sep 27, 2007
Posts: 309
Location: Your house stealing your stuff
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2007 - 09:45 AM |
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yu888 its a shame you've already renting out that 7K RMB place you spoke of I would have perhaps taken it instead
Anywho thanks for the advice people. |
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Boronia
Reacher
Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 331
Status: Offline
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Oct 12, 2007 - 09:09 PM |
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My place is only 4.5krmb per month, but is usually quiet. The only noise I hear is the piano practice (mercifully the child is not a keen student & does not practise often) & renovations when they are undertaken. It depends on the location of the apartment, the willingness of the building management company to enforce noise regulations, & your neighbours. A higher rental & classier building does not necessarily mean a quieter place. |
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