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larry80
Newbie
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Feb 21, 2008 - 12:49 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Local Expat in Big 4 |
Hi All,
I've been in Shanghai for two years now after some experiences/studies in sales/marketing in different countries and I am currently applying for a Big 4 accounting firm at the Associate level.
Since the company has only hired locals at entry-level, their HR department is asking for my expected package and salary, as a local expat. Obviously, I can bring much more than a freshly graduate in terms of business experiences and international background, so my salary expectations cannot match what they are offering to the locals at the same level (< 5000k per month).
The foreigners in their China offices are usually Sr Associates and above, with comfortable packages (more than 20k + benefits).
Based on that, I would have a few questions for those who can help 
1/ Is anyone in the same situation as me, being recruited LOCALLY by MNCs, big firms? What type of package and salary should I ask for?
2/ After a few years, if I decide to be assigned and work in the US, how would my salary be recalculated? Given the different purchasing power in different countries...
3/ the HR is requesting information about my current salary package, my current allowances, bonus, the amount of tax I pay etc... Could I choose not to provide these information?
4/ Would anyone know the average rate of salary increase per year in Big 4, for locals as well as for expatriates?
Would appreciate any help, or tips!!
Thanks in advance. |
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Julesss
Squeeker
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 11
Status: Offline
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Feb 21, 2008 - 02:44 PM |
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1. Can you read Chinese and speak Mandarin? If not, I don't think you should try at all start at one of the big 4 as all the work performed by associates will be in Chinese. As you don't have any experience at all in accounting, you can not ask for a much higher salary than locals. Having experience in marketing and sales and an international background will not bring you far in accounting so you will start with the same knowledge level as local hired associates.
2. When you will go to the US after a couple of years in a Chinese Big 4, I think you will get a decent salary but not the same as your peers in the US as they will be better trained than you are. Reason for that is that the accounting firms in China are still developing and it will take more years to get close to the levels of accounting firms in the UK and US.
3. You can choose not to give the information but if you don't agree with what they will offer you, you need to give them reasons why you don't agree. Most of the times it is because you will have a lower salary than before and you might have to prove that.
4. The salary increase per year in the Big 4 are still ok. There is still a gap in salary between locals and expats but the Big 4 is trying to increase the local salaries to a more acceptable level. Why are you thinking of salary increases while you have not even started the job? If you will only do it for the money, you will be very dissappointed as the Big 4 in China are not treating associates very well. The main reason for (senior) associates to leave the Big 4 is overtime, overtime and overtime. |
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dys
Barker
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 136
Status: Offline
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Feb 21, 2008 - 05:33 PM |
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Larry80 - what line of service will you be working in? It may make a slight difference since Advisory and tax tend to be pay more than audit. |
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larry80
Newbie
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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Feb 21, 2008 - 06:16 PM |
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Thanks for the answers so far!
To respond to the questions: I can read, write and speak Chinese, as well as other European languages. True that I do not have enough accounting skills, however, my business experiences has given me leadership, organizational and customer service qualities which I believe, are crucial when dealing with multinationals.
I am applying for the International Tax Department, which should offer more opportunities to work overseas as they deal with expatriates. I actually thought Audit and Advisory would be paid more than Tax division. I wouldn't work there JUST for the money, as I received some other nice offers but I am more interested in the possibility of growth, the training opportunities and learning new skills. Money is secondary but still important!  |
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dys
Barker
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 136
Status: Offline
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Feb 21, 2008 - 08:22 PM |
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Larry80 - just pm'ed you. |
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crivens200
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 05, 2007
Posts: 929
Status: Offline
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Feb 21, 2008 - 08:42 PM |
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As an ex-accountant of some 15 years I'd like to offer you this advice:
Don't do it. Accountancy & Finance is not interesting. Anyone who says it is is a lowdown dirty liar. |
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YariGuy
LoopKicker
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 877
Location: Puxi
Status: Offline
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Feb 22, 2008 - 02:39 PM |
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^ ha ha.
There are some fat (both literal and figurative) partners though! Money must be good once you make it. |
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EnnesX
Reacher
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 210
Status: Offline
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Feb 22, 2008 - 03:03 PM |
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All I will say Larry, is that I make much less than I expected to here at an entry level position. You say you have more business and international experence than a typical local, but what do you think these experiences will allow you to do more than anyone else? Do you have confidence that your manager there would even be able to utilize these experiences? Also, I do not see young people like us as true expats since we were not sent here by an employer at home. We are just foreigners finding employment here, and that itself will differentiate how much you can earn as compared to a real expat.
China is great for a lot of different experience but I just don't know about acct./finance. |
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larry80
Newbie
Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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Feb 23, 2008 - 03:38 PM |
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Thanks everyone for your responses, especially Dys which info was really useful!  |
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monkey_magic
Talker
Joined: Aug 07, 2007
Posts: 91
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 03:59 PM |
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crivens, so true.. unfortunately.
i suggest you try and get into transaction services, tax is also good. get to a point where you're either a DD guru or a structuring expert and move to valuations or leveraged finance |
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beautiful_mind0905
Board Lord
Joined: June 18, 2006
Posts: 5780
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 04:14 PM |
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Senior Associates at a Big 4 in Shanghai earning only 20k per months? That is nothing! |
_________________
Women are the ones who maintain the world while men throw it into disarray with their historic brutality. |
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monkey_magic
Talker
Joined: Aug 07, 2007
Posts: 91
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 04:18 PM |
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that's local rates... 20-25k.. i'd say.
of course if u're talking about expat rates then add another 50%. i think.
either way, guess how big 4 partners make so much money on tight audit budgets???? yes. sir, you are correct, by exploiting the little ones. |
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crivens200
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 05, 2007
Posts: 929
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 07:08 PM |
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| monkey_magic wrote: |
crivens, so true.. unfortunately.
i suggest you try and get into transaction services, tax is also good. get to a point where you're either a DD guru or a structuring expert and move to valuations or leveraged finance |
Tis indeed very unfortunate as the money is so good. But imagine waking up on 60th birthday to discover you've just spent the best part of 40 years staring at a computer and shuffling paper for a living.
In the words of the great Homer Simpson . . . . . Doh! |
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beautiful_mind0905
Board Lord
Joined: June 18, 2006
Posts: 5780
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 09:24 PM |
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Isn't that what all white collar workers do... shuffle paper around and push paper under other people's noses etc etc etc? |
_________________
Women are the ones who maintain the world while men throw it into disarray with their historic brutality. |
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beautiful_mind0905
Board Lord
Joined: June 18, 2006
Posts: 5780
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 09:26 PM |
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I wouldn't go to China without being seconded there or finding a job as a true expat. The money you earn as a local hire will make it virtually impossible to return to Australia and build a good life. |
_________________
Women are the ones who maintain the world while men throw it into disarray with their historic brutality. |
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dys
Barker
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 136
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 09:48 PM |
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I was under the impression that if a firm seconds an employee to China, they're normally paid a salary above local rate but not comparable to a "true expat" salary |
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crivens200
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 05, 2007
Posts: 929
Status: Offline
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Feb 25, 2008 - 11:02 PM |
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| beautiful_mind0905 wrote: |
| Isn't that what all white collar workers do... shuffle paper around and push paper under other people's noses etc etc etc? |
Yes, indeed. For 40 years. DOH! |
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monkey_magic
Talker
Joined: Aug 07, 2007
Posts: 91
Status: Offline
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Feb 26, 2008 - 12:17 PM |
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.... and then your gut starts expanding from 25+ onwards
from too much beer and no exercise...
i tried a new suit the other day and noticed the buldge... it was hideous. |
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