Forum FAQ

Preferences

Watched Topics

Watched Forums

2 nyc dudes coming to china

Shanghai Expat Forum Index » City Living Forums » Questions and Answers

Author

Message

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 03:34 AM
Post subject: 2 nyc dudes coming to china

Trying to do the whole "teach english" thing. I know there's a million of these Q&A on teaching english (I have done a fair amount of research), but obviously I was unable to find answers to the questions below. Anyhow, hoping to get some answers as well as bad jokes and sarcasm.

Background:
A good friend of mine and I want to come to China (probably Shanghai or Shenzen where we have long-time friends) and teach english. We are both 23 years old and male with bachelors degrees from McGill University (considered by some to be Canada's best school). Although we went to school in Canada, we are both orginally from, and currently living in NYC. Ideally, we would like to teach for around 3 months, probably starting at the end of May or beginning of June through August/September.

Questions:
- How realistic is a 3 month teaching gig? Too short? Not worth it because you will have to pay your own airfare?

- Do you suggest having a contract laid out before you leave? Or can we just show up and expect to get a job within 2-3 weeks?

- We would prefer to get an apartment on our own (not through a school). Is this reasonable or should we take a package with housing?

- Not that we wish to take the dishonest route, but what happens if you sign a contract and you cannot fulfill the entire time period?

Thank you all.

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 03:36 AM

Oh yeah, we do not have TESOL/TEFL or anything like that but would probably be willing to do it if it was worth it. Is it?

SnappySammy

Board Legend

Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10143

Status: Online!

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 05:51 AM
Post subject: Re: 2 nyc dudes coming to china

fsscomestochina wrote:

I went to McGill undergrad, then I went to Columbia. I have over fifty famly members who went to McGill. Most of them became Doctors. I also am a New Yorker, however most of my family were from Montreal.

Good Luck fellows in China.

I've been in Shanghai a long time. I spend 6 months a year in Shanghai and Six months in New York.

I never taught English in China , but there are a lot of people on this site who will give you plenty of advice.

If you like P,ussy this is a good place to be. Come to think of it, so is Montreal.

If I were you I would look for my own housing. Student housing in the States suck. I don't think it can be very good in China.

as far as what happens if you sign a contract and skip out on it. For you two New York dudes it will not be a problem. For your families it will be a big problem trying to get your bodies back.

China is a great place and Shanghai is one of the few cities in the World that is fast paced like New York. You should have a great adventure.

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 06:30 AM

Hmm, I hear you on many of the above points.

I'm not really dying to teach english so much as I'm dying to be in country like china. And, a 15 hour workweek sounds pretty reasonable if that will get me by with a reasonable lifestyle (Read: A basic clean apartment, budget dining, and budget but regular nightlife. )

Ideally, I would work in another industry but I figure this could take at least a few months and since I don't have the savings to wait it out, I would teach in the meantime.

Right now, I'm a legal analyst in large NYC firm, but I'm not sure how to turn that into an Expat job, so I'm thinking about just making the plunge and giving it a go.

It would be amazing to find a job that allowed me to live in NYC and China. What line of work are you in? You wanna hook up some Guanxi (if thats how you use the word) to a fellow alum!?!

SnappySammy

Board Legend

Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 10143

Status: Online!

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 08:00 AM

I have a few joint ventures in China. All the people I employ in China are Chinese.

I'm not sure how teaching English works. But Like I said there are a lot of people on this site who will know.

everyone is just waking up.

BTW I had a Uncle who was a Prof at McGill. His claim to fame was he could write two different sentences at one time with each hand on a blackboard.

_________________
Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy

andyfff

Rocker

Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 684

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 08:07 AM

Fss, you may have some visa problems. To teach legally, you need a working permit and a residence permit. These are applied for by your school after you sign a contract. I don't know if three month contracts are allowed (or if you could even find a school that offers them) so that is one issue.

But if you wanted to risk it and teach under the table (illegally) you will still have to find an apartment and that involves two months deposit, the whole pain in the ass rigamarole you have to go through in any country.

And after you add it all up, between the airfare and the costs of getting set up here, if you only stay for three months you will probably end up losing money. Why only three months, why not come and stay for a year? That way you could get a good teaching job, save some money, and live the good life!

unoriginal
LoopKicker

Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 876

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 09:32 AM

If you are working as a legal analyst you could look for an internship... they are generally about 3 months, i know heaps of french people here doing them at law firms, and they all finish in June, so i am guessing that there is a new round starting them...

Only problem is they are CRAP pay! i am doing one now, 4000rmb/month. You could look for one through an American company, which may help with visas and pay? And they are fairly full time hours, but it will look better on your resume than teaching english i would say? At least that's what i'm hoping Very Happy

beautiful_mind0905

Board Lord

Joined: June 18, 2006
Posts: 5647

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 10:07 AM

What is a legal analyst? Is that a legal assistant, paralegal or lawyer?

Unoriginal, are you still studying?

_________________
Women are the ones who maintain the world while men throw it into disarray with their historic brutality.

unoriginal
LoopKicker

Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 876

Posted: Feb 22, 2008 - 10:16 AM

bm - I have finished all my studies in Australia, but need to complete a one year internship to actually get the degree, which is how i ended up here... obviously being a chinese internship i have nothing to do and spend far too much time on shexpat!!!

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 12:02 AM

beautiful- legal analyst, kinda like a step above paralegal. No law degree.

unoriginal- I would consider an internship, but I'm gonna be 24 soon and already have some work experience before and after college. I'm not sure I could convince myself I was making progress if I took an internship. Unless, it was pretty certain that that internship would turn into something more lucrative within 3-6 months. Can you live on 4000/rmb a month? Does that include housing?

Basically, I would definitely be cool staying in China for a year, I'm just not sure I want to teach english for a whole year. While I do want to come out there to have fun and live the expat life, I HAVE feel like I'm not JUST on an extended vacation.

Perhaps the way to go is teach english for a year, try to learn some mandarin and then try to find jobs after that. However, my main concern with that route is what happens if I come over, sign a 1 year contract and then decide after 6 months that I have to do something else. Or, what happens if I get another job offer? Will they really hit me some water torture if I break contract? Can I get a contract that can be terminated?

yu888
Board Deity

Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18044
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 12:24 AM

Hmmm, a legal analyst that is already considering ways to break a contract Wink

...

4000 rmb will NOT allow much of a life in most cases for those coming from "another world", I do not recommend it unless you have plenty of savings to fall back on so you can enjoy your time here.

_________________
Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 12:36 AM

haha. I dont want to break contract, I really just want a 3 month contract. However, this sounds difficult (but maybe not impossible).

I don't have a ton of savings. Likely, I'll have 2-3k USD and a plane ticket. Would that be enough money to stay for while and look for a job?

yu888
Board Deity

Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18044
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 12:53 AM

Quote:

stay for while and look for a job?

yes, but whether you will find one within the time allotted will depend on your networking abilities and luck.

_________________
Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more

Megs
Wonder Wit

Joined: Nov 12, 2005
Posts: 3822
Location: Jinshan, Shanghai China

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 01:31 AM

fsscomestochina wrote:

Check out Dave's ESL Cafe www.eslcafe.com

You should be able to find a summer job at a camp to teach English at. Generally last 4-6+weeks. Not sure of the hours, as I've never done one, but you may find job postings for them on Dave's, and if not, you could probably do a google search for them.

3 month contract isn't impossible, but you'll probably have to do some sort of "summer camp" or "English camp" thing to get that type of contract.

_________________
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 03:40 AM

Yeah, thanks for the tip, I would be pretty dumb to not have seen Dave's ESL by now, but I do appreciate the help. Haven't seen anything on there that seems to exactly match my needs, but I'll look into the camp thing.

Another question, probly deserves it's own thread, but I don't want to spam the boards. How possible is it to take classes in China? For instance, if I wanted to take some courses in Film, such as learning Final Cut Pro (an editing program), how easy is it to find something like this? Could I enroll in an arts program at a university?

If I was teaching and had a lot of free time, it would be nice to learn a skill that I might not otherwise have the time for.

jtburns2323

Squeeker

Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 16

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 08:11 AM

To address a few points

*Breaking the contract- No big deal. Most of my friends broke their contract and it was not a big deal. One of my friends had to pay a few thousand RMB, but nothing major. Once people get here they usually start making friends and find better employment after a couple of months. Also, you will find that most Chinese people are constantly bitching about their jobs and actively seeking other employment. As Ron Burgundy famously said "When in Rome...."

*Studying- Many of my friends alternated between studying and teaching, as the english teaching tends to become tedious rather quickly. One of my friends taught for 4 months and then went to a Chinese university for one semester. With your savings of 2-3K and a salary of around 8K RMB you should be able to follow a similar route if you are interested in studying Chinese.

*Employment- I would recommend getting a job through dave's esl or a similar site before coming, as your employer can help you find an apartment and help negotiate the contract. If, after a few months, you don't like the job, just move on.

Overall, it is a lot less stressful to have a job upon arrival. I came to China when I was 24 and had a similar background as yours. I would definitely recommend planning on a year, as you will find it is a pretty awesome place for males in their early/mid twenties. Hope this helps.

Rais

Reacher

Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 298

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 11:24 AM

You're coming for the "China Experience"? Because you're not going to see allot of money out of it. If it's not only for the C.E. you'd might want to consider some School in Thailand near one of the beaches. I hope there is no need to write in details for you why Thailand/Beach/Food/Babes would be better than in Shenzhen.

unoriginal
LoopKicker

Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 876

Posted: Feb 23, 2008 - 11:37 AM

FSS>>
I get some money from the lovely Australian government as I am still enrolled in Uni, so i do a little better than the 4000rmb... One of my housemates lives on 4000rmb but it is easy for him..... he is one of those odd ones that doesn't drink!

EnnesX

Reacher

Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 206

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 08:53 AM

fss - don't even bother coming with your plan. its not worth it. if you really want to come and play, you can save the money beforehand and then come. No need to worry about money, work, contracts, or anything else. Also, if you guys haven't noticed from the forums, this place sucks for the most part. I don't know why any guys from NYC or Montreal would choose to come here to play, other than the fact that money goes far and you can drown yourself in sin if you look to do so.

Me_Again

Reacher

Joined: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Lost
Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 09:55 AM

Depending on the type of visa you have, breaking a contract means your visa will become invalid and you must leave the country within a very short period of time, unless you find further employment.

Buck the trend in the US....why not actually SAVE money and come for a holiday instead?

_________________
We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill

meteorleft

Squeeker

Joined: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 16

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 01:30 PM

jtburns finally answered a question the fss guy had.

I think what he is hoping to do is find a better paying job shortly after arriving in CH.
But, the contract will get him a ticket to CH, and save him the trouble of
securing visa, apt., job, etc.
Better than the 8-10k RMB he would make teaching english. If he finds a secure
job paying better, why not break the contract?? It's not the end of the world, is it?

fsscomestochina

Newbie

Joined: Feb 22, 2008
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:58 PM

EnnesX wrote:

eh heh....

Andreas
Board Royalty

Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6413
Location: 31 N 121 E

Posted: Feb 26, 2008 - 12:15 AM

yu888 wrote:

Hmmm, a legal analyst that is already considering ways to break a contract Wink

That's about 6 times Tongren Lu Wink

_________________
If it has tits, tires, or a transom, there's gonna be issues!

ladylady

Barker

Joined: Aug 29, 2007
Posts: 152

Status: Offline

Posted: Feb 26, 2008 - 02:07 PM

Questions:
- How realistic is a 3 month teaching gig? Too short? Not worth it because you will have to pay your own airfare?

My first teaching job only asked me to commit for 1 semester (Sep - Jan).

- Do you suggest having a contract laid out before you leave? Or can we just show up and expect to get a job within 2-3 weeks?

It took me less than 2 weeks to find my first teaching job - but then again I started looking just 2 weeks before the start of the school semester.

- We would prefer to get an apartment on our own (not through a school). Is this reasonable or should we take a package with housing?

no comment - I had a place to live already (with my husband!)

- Not that we wish to take the dishonest route, but what happens if you sign a contract and you cannot fulfill the entire time period?

If you break your contract you have to pay the fee - but if you break it to take a well paying job in your field - it might be worth it. I knew a girl that bailed out of her contract and was more than happy to pay the fee rather than stay where she was.

One other thing to note... you might find you don't have all that much 'free time' at first. Lesson planning takes up alot of time at the beginning when you don't know what the heck you are doing, and then you might start private tutoring in order to make some better money.