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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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 Posted:
Mar 27, 2008 - 02:30 PM |
 
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| tomnoddy_uk wrote: |
hence the question is, is it better to:
make the mistake and then correct,
or not to make mistake by not reporting on it in the first place. |
You are not considering another option: make a mistake (on purpose), hope that nobody notices it, and if they do, come up with a lame excuse.
A good example of this would be our buddy Benny from The Guardian who reported on the "democracy fighter" that had his eye removed from its socket and all turned out to be a massive rabid fabrication.
They blamed him on being "new to China" and on "stress", although he was a seasoned reporter in Africa, even receiving prizes and stuff. |
_________________
Click here to read the latest retarded PM Natalie sent me. Let's make her lose face and FINALLY leave this site. |
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tomnoddy_uk
Fire-eater
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2910
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Mar 27, 2008 - 05:06 PM |
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_________________
"Eight minutes past the hour here in Belgium - and presumably eight minutes past the hour everywhere in the world." Murray Walker |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Mar 27, 2008 - 05:31 PM |
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brasil
LoopKicker
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 890
Status: Offline
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Mar 31, 2008 - 02:33 PM |
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the difference btw west media and chinese media is:
west is intensive biased and distort facts.
china is intensive biased and hide facts.
the"west" are just as much brainwashed as Chinese. unfortunately at least chinese have ability to read english, which enable us to read two sides of the story listen to different voices . while most of the westernl either have no interest in mastering the chinese launguage or chinese charater is just beyond their IQ level. for the west, the story is always one sided.
utterly pathetic |
Last edited by brasil on Mar 31, 2008 - 04:20 PM; edited 3 times in total |
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brasil
LoopKicker
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 890
Status: Offline
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Mar 31, 2008 - 02:36 PM |
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The media of free countries are taking advantage of ignorance of the most audiences about t¡bet so as to spread the biased publicity in favor of the t¡betan terrorists. That is why we can see some western newspapers “mistakenly” use the pictures of clashes between t¡betan demonstrators and Nepal police to describe that the t¡betan demonstrators are beaten by Chinese police, and we can also see many western newspapers “carelessly” ignored the fact that the t¡betan middle school was set on fire and the t¡betan girls were killed, and described the criminals as “demonstrators.”
Now we finally understand that the media of the “free countries” are so free that they can freely define any phrase and any event by intentionally ignoring some facts and deliberate use different wordings so as to mislead readers. The truth is always irrelevant for the media of the “free countries.” |
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Diomed
Reacher
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 250
Status: Offline
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Apr 01, 2008 - 01:04 AM |
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| Quote: |
| "Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability. Marxism is concerned with the distribution of wealth on an equal basis and the equitable utilization of the means of production. It is also concerned with the fate of the working classes-that is the majority -- as well as with the fate of those who are underprivileged and in need, and Marxism cares about the victims of minority-imposed exploitation. For those reasons the system appeals to me, and it seems fair. . . ." |
Thank you HC, for demonstrating that you understand only the surface of any and all arguments and seem mentally incapable of grasping difficult concepts.
Capitalism created Marxism. I.E. : Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis. Does this ring a bell? Also, if you knew anything about capitalism, you would know that the theory of the "Invisible Hand" completely debunks the quoted idiocy. Please, go and read Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto, and read their works previous to that. I think they will show you what kind of political and economic systems are pre-dominant in the modern day PRC. |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6293
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 01, 2008 - 11:18 AM |
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| Quote: |
the difference btw west media and chinese media is:
west is intensive biased and distort facts.
china is intensive biased and hide facts.
the"west" are just as much brainwashed as Chinese. unfortunately at least chinese have ability to read english, which enable us to read two sides of the story listen to different voices . while most of the western either have no interest in mastering the chinese launguage or chinese charater is just beyond their IQ level. for the west, the story is always one sided.
utterly pathetic
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I have refrained from posting for a long time.
The absurd logic of this post has finally got me to the point where I felt compelled to reply.
And my thoughts are also directed at not just you, but several other Chinese posters on this Forum who seem to have the same intolerance for a difference of opinion
But I use your several threads worth of close minded thought as an example..
Dear brasil,
From what I can gather from your and other Chinese nationals various posts on different threads:
- All foreigners are ignorant of anything happening in China because we are "not from here"
- All our opinions are based on only the "western press" because we are too stupid and retarded to gather information and form judgements from anything other than the completely unregulated and biased western media.
- Your opinions of all things western are valid and more creditable than a "westerner" because you can read and write both Chinese and English.
And thus you are qualified to form an opinion on all laowai's, their country's politics, and their philosophies and culture based upon the fact that you can gather information from , as you admit, TWO sets of completely biased media's.The Chinese and Western Press
- Because we are not Chinese, or "from here", none of us are qualified to voice an opinion about anything that occurs here.
- You on the other hand, because of all your travels and exposure to the always correct Chinese Press, are completely qualified to discourse on the historical treatment of the American Indians, the Australian Aboriginals, and the New Zealand Maori's.
Questions for you:
- How long have you lived in America?
- How long have you lived in Australia?
- How long have you lived in New Zealand?
- How many other "western" countries and cultures have you spent significant time in?
Most of the pople you are discrediting as having zero understanding of China and it's culture have worked, paid taxes, and lived in China for 3-15 years.
And have lived and travelled in many different cultures for most of their adult life.
My case....An American
Lived here for 3 years, Singapore for 3, the Netherlands for 2, and have spent probably 50% total of my time in the last 8 years in China....living or travelling here.
And I DO NOT form my opinions on occurrences in China based strictly on the "western press".....but also from the Chinese press and from the Chinese people who are my friends and co-workers.
Nor do most of the long term expats I know who you are disagreeing with on this site.
As you seem to pride yourself on gathering information from different sources, you may wish to consider not ignoring an opinion just because it is someone "not from here"....
One of the advantages and things I find most compelling about living and travelling in different cultures, is the opportunity to exchange viewpoints and ideas with people who have had a much different cultural upbringing and set of experiences than mine
Something that this Forum and the "westerners" on it would also give you....if you would ever open your mind to a discussion and exchange of ideas.
Instead of a flat rejection of anything that does not agree with your predetermined opinion. |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Apr 01, 2008 - 01:11 PM |
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| Diomed wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability. Marxism is concerned with the distribution of wealth on an equal basis and the equitable utilization of the means of production. It is also concerned with the fate of the working classes-that is the majority -- as well as with the fate of those who are underprivileged and in need, and Marxism cares about the victims of minority-imposed exploitation. For those reasons the system appeals to me, and it seems fair. . . ." |
Thank you HC, for demonstrating that you understand only the surface of any and all arguments and seem mentally incapable of grasping difficult concepts.
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Yep, this quote from THE da1a¡ 1ama is pretty lame isn't it?
That's why he cant even lead a boy scout meeting.
Oh, wait, you went all patronizing thinking it was me that posted it, with an erect micropenis and fury, ready to prove the mighty HC a myth eh? OOOPS!
Ah, the youth impulsiveness.
| Quote: |
Capitalism created Marxism. I.E. : Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis. Does this ring a bell? Also, if you knew anything about capitalism, you would know that the theory of the "Invisible Hand" completely debunks the quoted idiocy. Please, go and read Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto, and read their works previous to that. I think they will show you what kind of political and economic systems are pre-dominant in the modern day PRC. |
How old are you? 21?
I'm sure you are all happy that you posted what you did and thought you were really smart.
Made your day didnt it?
And I love how you pretend you did read Marx & Engels & Co. but forgot who actually created "the theory of the Invisible Hand" (hint: first name Adam). I am actually quite sure that you bore women to death by mentioning our old buddy Karl, but hey, at least you SOUND intelligent init?
Pathetic attempt at looking intelligent and patronize.
Must try harder boy.
Now change your diapers, I can smell them from here. |
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mrpango
Low Seater
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 3274
Status: Offline
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Apr 01, 2008 - 01:15 PM |
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Good post p1atl, had to comment on it. |
_________________
Well, may as well start a blog http://www.sinocracy.com/ - click at your leisure! |
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freelancer
Barker
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 161
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Apr 01, 2008 - 01:35 PM |
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Of course,we should respect different opinions. But do you find how some expats here face the different opinions of population and land held by Chinese? Did they respect it? Don't they have predetermined opinion in their mind? Eye for an eye! So it is not surprising that so many hostile dialogue showed in the posts. Here even some expats deny Chinese Culture totally and attack all Chinese by the ugly words.
As far as I know,some expats lived in China but they lived almost the same life in his home country. No local people involved in their life and they know few about China&Chinese although they lived here. Just like many Chinese in Chinatown. Of course it is their freedom. But they never save a tongue in the topic of China. You told me that you will think we are ignorant when we talked about American Indians or Aussie Aboriginal. The same feeling we will get when that guys talked about China&Chinese. |
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timtop
Barker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 166
Status: Offline
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Apr 01, 2008 - 06:02 PM |
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"the"west" are just as much brainwashed as Chinese. unfortunately at least chinese have ability to read english, which enable us to read two sides of the story listen to different voices . while most of the westernl either have no interest in mastering the chinese launguage or chinese charater is just beyond their IQ level. for the west, the story is always one sided.
utterly pathetic"
ur retard squaking language is monosyllabic dumbo.
same as all the other animals.
u know polysyllabic languages are a defining characteristic of humans right? |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Apr 01, 2008 - 06:33 PM |
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timtop
Barker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 166
Status: Offline
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Apr 01, 2008 - 09:52 PM |
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^ yeh i hate it when he struggles.........
when im drunk and have to smak him up side the head, hes definately declining in my mobile directory..... |
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Diomed
Reacher
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 250
Status: Offline
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Apr 02, 2008 - 04:40 AM |
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| hc wrote: |
| Diomed wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability. Marxism is concerned with the distribution of wealth on an equal basis and the equitable utilization of the means of production. It is also concerned with the fate of the working classes-that is the majority -- as well as with the fate of those who are underprivileged and in need, and Marxism cares about the victims of minority-imposed exploitation. For those reasons the system appeals to me, and it seems fair. . . ." |
Thank you HC, for demonstrating that you understand only the surface of any and all arguments and seem mentally incapable of grasping difficult concepts.
|
Yep, this quote from THE da1a¡ 1ama is pretty lame isn't it?
That's why he cant even lead a boy scout meeting.
Oh, wait, you went all patronizing thinking it was me that posted it, with an erect micropenis and fury, ready to prove the mighty HC a myth eh? OOOPS!
Ah, the youth impulsiveness.
| Quote: |
Capitalism created Marxism. I.E. : Thesis + Antithesis = Synthesis. Does this ring a bell? Also, if you knew anything about capitalism, you would know that the theory of the "Invisible Hand" completely debunks the quoted idiocy. Please, go and read Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto, and read their works previous to that. I think they will show you what kind of political and economic systems are pre-dominant in the modern day PRC. |
How old are you? 21?
I'm sure you are all happy that you posted what you did and thought you were really smart.
Made your day didnt it?
And I love how you pretend you did read Marx & Engels & Co. but forgot who actually created "the theory of the Invisible Hand" (hint: first name Adam). I am actually quite sure that you bore women to death by mentioning our old buddy Karl, but hey, at least you SOUND intelligent init?
Pathetic attempt at looking intelligent and patronize.
Must try harder boy.
Now change your diapers, I can smell them from here. |
Ok, HC, you used the aforementioned quote to further your own argument, you even italicized this block for clarification. In fact you said
about said utterances by the DL. Where is the confusion? I was rebutting your argument that those were good points, by quoting them and rebutting them. I guess you completely missed that though.
Also, try reading the entire sentence. How could you mistake this:
| Quote: |
| Also, if you knew anything about capitalism, you would know that the theory of the "Invisible Hand" completely debunks the quoted idiocy. |
with me thinking that marx or Engels came up with the concept of the invisible hand. Lemme quote it again for clarification
| Quote: |
| Also, if you knew anything about capitalism, you would know that the theory of the "Invisible Hand" completely debunks the quoted idiocy. |
I then went on to suggest some reading for you, so that you could make a better distinction b/t Marxism and Capitalism.
HC, if you cannot understand how my rebutting a quote which YOU posted and agreed with is my counter to YOUR opinion, well, then, you probably won't understand this post anyways.
And yes, you clearly agreed with the quoted block, this was further demonstrated when in the same post you wrote:
| Quote: |
| Now put that in context to what he actually did to implement anything close to that in his land. |
which, given your utter hatred of the DL, strongly implies your agreement with the principles espoused in his quote. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Apr 02, 2008 - 09:11 AM |
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I think you missed the sarcasm of the quote.
The idea, has always been, to demonstrate how the DL has been an inept leader to his people throughout his life, well documented through much of literature (although I doubt you read any of it, given that you think I "hate" him by just quoting his lunaticisms).
I do understand that sarcasm is difficult to grasp on this media though, so you have the benefit of the doubt here.
I should have also quote the DL and his great line on how he like "machines" and how this is the future of T1bt. Sure.
Again, as I initially posted: "Yep, this quote from THE da1a¡ 1ama is pretty lame isn't it? "
And you said "I was rebutting your argument that those were good points"
I never said those were good points. These points just prove his ineptitude as a leader, which has been the central point allll the way.
But hey, now keep tiring us and answer with how I am stupid for being sarcastic, or for not reading the da1a¡ 1ama books or whatever. I have nothing against seeing people embarrassing themselves, quite to the contrary.
hc. |
_________________
Click here to read the latest retarded PM Natalie sent me. Let's make her lose face and FINALLY leave this site. |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6293
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 02, 2008 - 11:13 AM |
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Of course,we should respect different opinions. But do you find how some expats here face the different opinions of population and land held by Chinese? Did they respect it?
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freelancer,
Yes, there are bozo's everywhere.
Yes some are opinionated close-minded flamers.
But the trick is to ignore them instead of inciting them.
Why stoop to their level?
A flame war on a site usually discourages any of the articulate intelligent debate you are (hopefully) actually looking for.
| Quote: |
As far as I know,some expats lived in China but they lived almost the same life in his home country. No local people involved in their life and they know few about China&Chinese although they lived here. Just like many Chinese in Chinatown. Of course it is their freedom. But they never save a tongue in the topic of China. You told me that you will think we are ignorant when we talked about American Indians or Aussie Aboriginal. The same feeling we will get when that guys talked about China&Chinese
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sigh....
Did you get the point of my previous post?
Or are you so bent on a single path that you cannot see anything else?
I have lived in Asia for 7 years.
I have spent most of the last 15 years travelling here.
My wife is Asian...
I work with about 300 local Chinese....and interact with them daily.
I agree that not all ex-pats "are qualified to comment on China.
That my experience and background DOES allow me to add a viewpoint that MAY be worthwhile for you to consider... is something you should not dismiss out of hand simply because I am a foreigner.
And some of the other ex-pats have a more grounded basis than I....but you either dismiss them for being laowai...or switch to completely irrelevent area about which you know nothing.
You brought up topics like the treatment of the American Indians.
- Been there?
- Lived there?
- Studied a diversity of texts and sources (US and Chinese!) that gives you a grounded assesment of the policies and history of the US government towards the American Indians?
- Done anything that would remotely qualify you to give an informed opinion on the treatment of the American Indians?
Bet not.
But by throwing the ungrounded topic of the US treatment into the discourse, you do nothing but discredit all of your possibly correct thoughts on what the subject actually is....
I would love to learn more about your thoughts, and your countrymen's thoughts about many of the subjects on this board....
I may or may not agree with them, but it would help me from a more balanced view of the subjects...
But I guess I may have to find someone other than you to get those viewpoints from....
Sincerely,
Ignorant Laowai Who Knows Nothing About China..... |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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brasil
LoopKicker
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 890
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 02, 2008 - 11:21 AM |
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[quote="p1atl10"]
| Quote: |
I have refrained from posting for a long time.
The absurd logic of this post has finally got me to the point where I felt compelled to reply.
And my thoughts are also directed at not just you, but several other Chinese posters on this Forum who seem to have the same intolerance for a difference of opinion.
But I use your several threads worth of close minded thought as an example.. |
this is your opinion. a individeal's opinion is not same as the media. cant you make this to a newspaper or tv?
| Quote: |
Dear brasil,
From what I can gather from your and other Chinese nationals various posts on different threads:
- All foreigners are ignorant of anything happening in China because we are "not from here"
- All our opinions are based on only the "western press" because we are too stupid and retarded to gather information and form judgements from anything other than the completely unregulated and biased western media.
- Your opinions of all things western are valid and more creditable than a "westerner" because you can read and write both Chinese and English.
And thus you are qualified to form an opinion on all laowai's, their country's politics, and their philosophies and culture based upon the fact that you can gather information from , as you admit, TWO sets of completely biased media's.The Chinese and Western Press
- Because we are not Chinese, or "from here", none of us are qualified to voice an opinion about anything that occurs here.
- You on the other hand, because of all your travels and exposure to the always correct Chinese Press, are completely qualified to discourse on the historical treatment of the American Indians, the Australian Aboriginals, and the New Zealand Maori's. |
hehe, anyone is qualifed to have an opinion on anything.(but not to criticize ) i guess its another non-chinese poster said that if i dont live in australia, im not qualifed to comment on aboriginals.
| Quote: |
Questions for you:
- How long have you lived in America?
- How long have you lived in Australia?
- How long have you lived in New Zealand?
- How many other "western" countries and cultures have you spent significant time in? |
1 year, 6 months, zero, europe 1 year, brasil , africa . middle east only for pleasure about 6 month. im hired by CCP to travel around the world. lol.
| Quote: |
Most of the pople you are discrediting as having zero understanding of China and it's culture have worked, paid taxes, and lived in China for 3-15 years.
And have lived and travelled in many different cultures for most of their adult life. |
most of the people im discrediting? who? bbc, cnn, nancy pelosi, macclaine as far as i recall
| Quote: |
My case....An American
Lived here for 3 years, Singapore for 3, the Netherlands for 2, and have spent probably 50% total of my time in the last 8 years in China....living or travelling here.
And I DO NOT form my opinions on occurrences in China based strictly on the "western press".....but also from the Chinese press and from the Chinese people who are my friends and co-workers. |
the chinese press foreigners read is in english. cctv9 etc is totally a comedian relief ."culture express" is good though. i trust mandarin chinese press more.
| Quote: |
| As you seem to pride yourself on gathering information from different sources, you may wish to consider not ignoring an opinion just because it is someone "not from here".... |
hehe, everyone is entitled an opinion on any subject. not ignore, just disagree.
| Quote: |
| One of the advantages and things I find most compelling about living and travelling in different cultures, is the opportunity to exchange viewpoints and ideas with people who have had a much different cultural upbringing and set of experiences than mine |
cant agree more on that.
| Quote: |
| Something that this Forum and the "westerners" on it would also give you....if you would ever open your mind to a discussion and exchange of ideas. Instead of a flat rejection of anything that does not agree with your predetermined opinion. |
its mutual. |
Last edited by brasil on Apr 02, 2008 - 11:48 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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brasil
LoopKicker
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 890
Status: Offline
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Apr 02, 2008 - 11:31 AM |
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i forget to add: living in a foreign country or many travels to different culture s dont automatically give this person more credit on commenting on related subjects. its the people. live in shanghai and enjoy a active social life, with no chinese language ability, no trusting chinese friends. no exposure to mandarin chinese media, good life but very limited understanding of the culture and whats happening around. i think a person who can read and write know more than the illeterate. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Apr 02, 2008 - 11:43 AM |
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I'm inclined to think this is a trench war that cannot be won.
From the Chinese side, whatever argument you can use, you will never "understand" China, even if you lived here for years and speak the language fluently, like Kiwi.
On the other hand, from the western side, no Chinese can have a valid opinion as they necessarily have been brainwashed or never lived abroad hence cannot understand where a westerner is coming from.
This discussion is pointless.
It's masturbation without the apotheosis. |
_________________
Click here to read the latest retarded PM Natalie sent me. Let's make her lose face and FINALLY leave this site. |
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freelancer
Barker
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 161
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Apr 02, 2008 - 11:46 AM |
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| p1atl10 wrote: |
sigh....
Did you get the point of my previous post?
Or are you so bent on a single path that you cannot see anything else?
......
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Dear P1atl10,
You misunderstood my points. It might caused by the language barrier. I never mean "all laowai",especially not including that kind of people like you. Frankly speaking, I think you are very good since you would like to learn China Culture and communicate with Chinese. I always think LAOWAI contribute a lot to our country, such as:management,technology.,etc. You are right. I should ignore the close-minded bozo's opinions.
Thx |
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brasil
LoopKicker
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 890
Status: Offline
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Apr 02, 2008 - 11:50 AM |
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right, i speak from my experience. |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6293
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 02, 2008 - 11:54 AM |
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Freelencer....
Thanks.....did not mean to be so "preachy", but am really tired of some of the closedmindedness on the threads lately...
I think HC may have it right....This may, at this point, be a discussion we should just move on from.
Cheers!
PS: As my daddy used to say..."opinions are like Azzholes...everybody has one!"
Catch you around! |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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freelancer
Barker
Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 161
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Apr 02, 2008 - 12:10 PM |
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| hc wrote: |
I'm inclined to think this is a trench war that cannot be won.
From the Chinese side, whatever argument you can use, you will never "understand" China, even if you lived here for years and speak the language fluently, like Kiwi.
On the other hand, from the western side, no Chinese can have a valid opinion as they necessarily have been brainwashed or never lived abroad hence cannot understand where a westerner is coming from.
This discussion is pointless.
It's masturbation without the apotheosis. |
Hc,good points. If you can speak fluent Chinese, you might be another DASHAN. Sorry,I don't know if you like him. But many Chinese like him very much. |
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brasil
LoopKicker
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 890
Status: Offline
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Apr 02, 2008 - 02:00 PM |
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can dashan read chinese?
i dont like dashan! |
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