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Dazza
Low Seater
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 3434
Location: In the city of cold steel
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:12 PM |
 
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I'm with Yu on the visa situation, I have been informed that things will not return to normal in October, The Olympics is part of the excuse, basically the real reasons is to get the illegals working on F and L Visas out due to tax dodging etc etc... |
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If the musics too loud then you are too old!
Last edited by Dazza on Apr 30, 2008 - 02:24 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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woaihuan
StreetBeater
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 2437
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:19 PM |
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It'd be more effective to just put signs up in the airport telling you that you will get arrested, jailed and deported for working on an L visa or avoiding tax with an business visa.
And then add big fines or jail to those who illegally hire foreigners.
That way it wouldn't effect those not breaking laws. |
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Dazza
Low Seater
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 3434
Location: In the city of cold steel
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:25 PM |
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^ indeed, and as mentioned before, expect to see many private language centers closed down over the summer.. |
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If the musics too loud then you are too old! |
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kuldaen
StreetBeater
Joined: June 06, 2005
Posts: 2248
Location: Somewhere in Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 30, 2008 - 02:28 PM |
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| woaihuan wrote: |
It'd be more effective to just put signs up in the airport telling you that you will get arrested, jailed and deported for working on an L visa or avoiding tax with an business visa.
And then add big fines or jail to those who illegally hire foreigners.
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I don't see why you would need to do this. do you fly into any country and not expect to be arrested,jailed and deported if you are working illegally?
| Quote: |
| That way it wouldn't effect those not breaking laws. |
How would they check the above without affecting those not breaking the law? Stricter checking of documents etc is something they should have done a long time ago. I think the main problem is the inconsistency and uncertainly that people are mainly affected by. If they are strict about it then there is no uncertainty. |
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; I |
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woaihuan
StreetBeater
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 2437
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:34 PM |
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A lot of teachers don't fly into the country on an L visa knowing that it is illegal to work.
I met a teacher on an L visa in that exact position. They were also only deducting a mere 10rmb a month from the wages for tax. The teacher didn't know it was illegal.
I said nothing about checking documents. I just said, when they get caught, have real punishments for them and the school. |
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Dazza
Low Seater
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 3434
Location: In the city of cold steel
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:34 PM |
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| Quote: |
| I don't see why you would need to do this. do you fly into any country and not expect to be arrested,jailed and deported if you are working illegally? |
Not in the UK, thats why there is probably close to 1 million working illegally there, the government would state otherwise though..some even get paid a handsome sum to leave in some cases. |
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If the musics too loud then you are too old! |
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Rais
Reacher
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 298
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 02:58 PM |
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| Dazza wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't see why you would need to do this. do you fly into any country and not expect to be arrested,jailed and deported if you are working illegally? |
Not in the UK, thats why there is probably close to 1 million working illegally there, the government would state otherwise though..some even get paid a handsome sum to leave in some cases. |
And how many are working illegally in the USA? Millions. |
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kuldaen
StreetBeater
Joined: June 06, 2005
Posts: 2248
Location: Somewhere in Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 30, 2008 - 03:07 PM |
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| Rais wrote: |
| Dazza wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't see why you would need to do this. do you fly into any country and not expect to be arrested,jailed and deported if you are working illegally? |
Not in the UK, thats why there is probably close to 1 million working illegally there, the government would state otherwise though..some even get paid a handsome sum to leave in some cases. |
And how many are working illegally in the USA? Millions. |
But its not like they just waltz in through immigration and are surprised that it is illegal when they are told. They expect that if they are caught, they'll get deported. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that putting up signs won't really affect anything. I'm sure there are penalties for employees and employers here already. they just don't seem to be enforced or aren't strict enough. |
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; I |
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kuldaen
StreetBeater
Joined: June 06, 2005
Posts: 2248
Location: Somewhere in Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Apr 30, 2008 - 03:09 PM |
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| woaihuan wrote: |
A lot of teachers don't fly into the country on an L visa knowing that it is illegal to work.
I met a teacher on an L visa in that exact position. They were also only deducting a mere 10rmb a month from the wages for tax. The teacher didn't know it was illegal.. |
Really? I'm sure a lot of people say this but deep down they know it illegal but don't think they'll get caught. They don't say anything because its more convenient to claim ignorance. ignorance isn't really an excuse. |
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; I |
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Rais
Reacher
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 298
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 03:12 PM |
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| kuldaen wrote: |
| Rais wrote: |
| Dazza wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't see why you would need to do this. do you fly into any country and not expect to be arrested,jailed and deported if you are working illegally? |
Not in the UK, thats why there is probably close to 1 million working illegally there, the government would state otherwise though..some even get paid a handsome sum to leave in some cases. |
And how many are working illegally in the USA? Millions. |
But its not like they just waltz in through immigration and are surprised that it is illegal when they are told. They expect that if they are caught, they'll get deported. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that putting up signs won't really affect anything. I'm sure there are penalties for employees and employers here already. they just don't seem to be enforced or aren't strict enough. |
I agree. It has to be enforced, same as enforcing penalties on cars and busses going through red lights, people smoking on the subway etc. It's the only way that it could change. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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Apr 30, 2008 - 04:21 PM |
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| dr3x320 wrote: |
| Curious, why would this mostly affect English teachers? and not other employment positions that possibly require Z Visa holders to leave China for business, ie to HK, Korea, Japan etc?, unless I'm missing something that this is specifically targeting English Teachers in China? |
English Language schools , especially the smaller ones, are notorious for NOT processing Z visas & work permits for all their teachers. Even the reputable ones probably have F-visa holders on their payroll (maybe under the table). No its not only English schools and teachers that will get affected, as I have mentioned sourcing agents, Q/A& Q/C specialists, Consultants on LT projects will ALL be greatly impacted. And most of those not legitimately here, will get screen out, regardless of occupation. |
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The right to free speech does not grant you freedom from the repercussions of what you say. This and more on my Blog...Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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Dazza
Low Seater
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 3434
Location: In the city of cold steel
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Apr 30, 2008 - 04:57 PM |
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Actually that is the approx number for illegal immigrants in the UK. |
_________________
If the musics too loud then you are too old! |
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underh20
Board Legend
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone
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| Posted:
Apr 30, 2008 - 06:10 PM |
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| kuldaen wrote: |
| woaihuan wrote: |
A lot of teachers don't fly into the country on an L visa knowing that it is illegal to work.
I met a teacher on an L visa in that exact position. They were also only deducting a mere 10rmb a month from the wages for tax. The teacher didn't know it was illegal.. |
Really? I'm sure a lot of people say this but deep down they know it illegal but don't think they'll get caught. They don't say anything because its more convenient to claim ignorance. ignorance isn't really an excuse. |
One would have to be from some small hole in the ground or else be really retarded to think it is not illegal to work on a tourist visa. |
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"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan |
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woaihuan
StreetBeater
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 2437
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:14 PM |
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Or be holding an American passport.
It's not an isolated incident. |
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SatelliteTV
SuperStar
Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Taiwan & China
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:22 PM |
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| underh20 wrote: |
| One would have to be from some small hole in the ground or else be really retarded to think it is not illegal to work on a tourist visa. |
Yes but there are many who knowingly work on visitor or business viasa to avoid paying taxes in China. Many don't beacuse they dont have the qualications or work experience for the occupation they want to work in.
Funny that when I was in Shanghai a few weeks ago how many people were telling me their livelihoods would be affected as they were working without work permits and how this was so unfair. Being legal was such a pain in the arse 
You know expat comes to save the third world why bother them with the requirement to get a legal visa. DUH!!
Then they ask me if I have an F or L visa and I reply I have no visa to be in China that other expats have 
I just have my compatriot doc.... hard to explain how I'm really a white PRC citizen, but there it is.  |
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jim@taiwansatellite.tv skype blackcrusader www.taiwansatellite.tv
Last edited by SatelliteTV on Apr 30, 2008 - 06:25 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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underh20
Board Legend
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:24 PM |
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| woaihuan wrote: |
Or be holding an American passport.
It's not an isolated incident. |
Nobody said fuktards are isolated anomalities. |
_________________
"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan |
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underh20
Board Legend
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:27 PM |
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| SatelliteTV wrote: |
Then they ask me if I have an F or L visa and I reply I have no visa to be in China that other expats have
I just have my compatriot doc.... hard to explain how I'm really a white PRC citizen, but there it is. |
WTF is a compatriot doc? |
_________________
"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan |
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woaihuan
StreetBeater
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 2437
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:32 PM |
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I was wondering if there were any white PRC citizens...
Like, really white or half and half?
Black hair?
It'd be cool to be a tall, really white, blond haired Chinese guy. NO ONE would ever believe you were Chinese. I bet you'd never get away with not having your ID documents checked and rechecked to make sure they weren't fake. |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 318
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:35 PM |
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| Dazza wrote: |
| I'm with Yu on the visa situation, I have been informed that things will not return to normal in October, The Olympics is part of the excuse, basically the real reasons is to get the illegals working on F and L Visas out due to tax dodging etc etc... |
Agree with both of you. I was told that the visa tightening is expected to continue, even after the olympics, and that Z-visas may no longer granted to university grads with less than 2 years of work experience. I haven't verified if this information is true, so take it for what it's worth. |
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SatelliteTV
SuperStar
Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Taiwan & China
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:09 PM |
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| Pegasus333 wrote: |
| What happened dfoo? Did I touch a sore nerve somewhere? Your wife was an ex-girlfriend of some English Teachers before? I know quite a number of them. Is it Tom, Dick or Harry? |
Worse, it was Peter, Paul, and MARY. |
_________________
jim@taiwansatellite.tv skype blackcrusader www.taiwansatellite.tv |
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woaihuan
StreetBeater
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 2437
Status: Offline
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Apr 30, 2008 - 08:40 PM |
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I don't think it's worse to have Mary than Harry.
Having Mary on that list may be considered a positive... |
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SatelliteTV
SuperStar
Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Taiwan & China
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 11:43 AM |
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| underh20 wrote: |
| SatelliteTV wrote: |
Then they ask me if I have an F or L visa and I reply I have no visa to be in China that other expats have
I just have my compatriot doc.... hard to explain how I'm really a white PRC citizen, but there it is. |
WTF is a compatriot doc? |
Well you see I'm a citizen of that little renegade island across the straits.... Taiwan. It's my island you see.
Citizens of Taiwan cannot travel to China on Taiwan passports as China claims Taiwan to be a part of China. So we dont apply for visa's per se.
We are given a PRC identity booklet that uses our ID numbers from my island. 
When we enter the PRC we must write nationality as being PRC. They stamp us in a returning to the motherland you see and we are PRC citizens. 
SO as PRC citizens of course we are not foreigners that need F or L visa's and we can live and work as any PRC citizen. My HUKOU is still in Taiwan but hey thats ok, Taiwan is just another province.
Once when I was driving I got puled over by the police. They asked to see my driving licence so I whipped out my Taiwan one.
They said it's not valid for driving in China. But I prοtest.... isn't a Chinese drivers licence vaild in all of China.... YES they reply.
So I asks... if Taiwan is a part of China then surely my licence is valid.... or are you trying to sya my little island has been granted independence and Taiwan is not a part of CHina...
They just told me to piss off and not talk on my cell phone when driving.
But yes when a 100% whitey pulls out a doc showing he is a PRC citizen they do tend to check more closely.  |
_________________
jim@taiwansatellite.tv skype blackcrusader www.taiwansatellite.tv
Last edited by SatelliteTV on May 01, 2008 - 11:57 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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underh20
Board Legend
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone
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May 01, 2008 - 11:52 AM |
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| SatelliteTV wrote: |
| underh20 wrote: |
| SatelliteTV wrote: |
Then they ask me if I have an F or L visa and I reply I have no visa to be in China that other expats have
I just have my compatriot doc.... hard to explain how I'm really a white PRC citizen, but there it is. |
WTF is a compatriot doc? |
Well you see I'm a citizen of that little renegade island across the straits.... Taiwan. It's my island you see.
Citizens of Taiwan cannot travel to China on Taiwan passports as China claims Taiwan to be a part of China. So we dont apply for visa's per se.
We are given a PRC identity booklet that uses our ID numbers from my island.
When we enter the PRC we must write nationality as being PRC. They stamp us in a returning to the motherland you see and we are PRC citizens.
SO as PRC citizens of course we are not foreigners that need F or L visa's and we can live and work as any PRC citizen. My HUKOU is still in Taiwan but hey thats ok, Taiwan is just another province.
Once when I was driving I got puled over by the police. They asked to see my driving licence so I whipped out my Taiwan one.
They said it's not valid for driving in China. But I prοtest.... isn't a Chinese drivers licence vaild in all of China.... YES they reply.
So I asks... if Taiwan is a part of China then surely my licence is valid.... or are you trying to sya my little island has been granted independence and Taiwan is not a part of CHina...
They just told me to piss off and not talk on my cell phone when driving.
But yes when a 100% whitey pulls out a doc showing he is a PRC citizen they do tend to check more closely. |
Hmmm ... so if you aren't white and not yellow ... you're a banana? |
_________________
"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan |
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SatelliteTV
SuperStar
Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 1375
Location: Taiwan & China
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 11:59 AM |
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| underh20 wrote: |
| Hmmm ... so if you aren't white and not yellow ... you're a banana? |
Nope you have that wrong. A banana is a Chinese pretending to be white on the inside yellow on the outside.
So I'm an egg... white on the outside and yellow on the inside.
You just don't understand Chinese culture.  |
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jim@taiwansatellite.tv skype blackcrusader www.taiwansatellite.tv |
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woaihuan
StreetBeater
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 2437
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 12:01 PM |
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