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chingiskhan
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 2244
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Apr 30, 2008 - 07:10 PM |
 
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Filters are a personal choice just like Canon vs Nikon. I personally do NOT use filters on any lens and I have two expensive L lenses. They all have very tough coatings, and I have never in 20 years actually damaged a lens. I also believe that spending all that money on amazing glass and then putting ANOTHER piece of glass on top is pointless. And if you drop the lens, it is possible the filter will break and scratch the lens.
But there is also a school of thought that filters do offer some protection and if you fall into that category the only advice is, get the best you can afford. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:14 PM |
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The cameras are pretty tough, unless you drop them in the ocean... I'd avoid that if I were you. |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
May 02, 2008 - 07:44 AM |
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| Post subject: prices, dealers and availability (and that fantastic feel) |
I narrowed down the choice and look for dealers now.
I had a look at Hui Xia Hui electronic plaza (Metro 1 Exit 12, 1st two dealers who have Nikon on the right side).
Any experience with those dealers ? - the second one looks quite professional - Nikon only and all lenses he gave me to try, he got out of the vitrines in the shop, not from somewhere upstairs.
The price for the body was shockingly low (around 11.000RMB - in Germany atm around 16.000 RMB).
That makes me very suspicious (do the sold packagages maybe include trash instead of the shops test model?)
I asked for the cameras way to China and he responded to "normal" so no grey import then (?).
The lenses is another thing - my pick is hardly to get obviously and he wanted to sell me a set of 18-70 AF-S VR ED (4.900RMB)+ 70-300 AF-S VR ED (8.500).
I donīt like to start with those 2 (donīt want to invest in a lense later I donīt need - the 18-200 I can use for tripping later always).
The prices for those lenses seem very high to me.
What is your feel to these prices?
Have any experience with these dealers (Hui Xia Hui, Metro 1 Exit 12 right side on 0F) ?
menos |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2008 - 10:46 AM |
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I hate that place! Do yourself a favor and go to the market at Xie Tu Lu/Lu Ban Lu. A do everything lens like the 18-200 is invariably worse than two lenses that cover the same range. A 70-300 is also a much more specialized lens, whereas 18-70 covers a more usable range.
What body is that quote on? Personally I hate the crop cameras; at that price I'd spring a little more and get the Canon 5d  |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2008 - 12:04 PM |
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The Body is a Nikon D300. The decision about the body is clear to me. I had that thing in my hand and everything feels right. The controls seem very intuitive, a perfect LCD (I never saw such clear LCD).
The 18-200 is my first pick for the first lense, to learn the camera (later I can keep it as a one for everything on a weekend trip).
The 70-300 I dont like so much - here I need always a second glas on the trip and there are other teles, I am more interested in to invest later (the 70-300 would get dusty).
I researched some prices and the cameras price seems to be spot on. The lense prices are way to high (I suppose those where the first astro prices he named).
As I was on the first walk without $ I didnīt ask further.
menos |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2008 - 12:38 PM |
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You might think you'd keep the lens to use for weekend trips and such, but my experience says otherwise. After you've used some good glass, you won't want to bother with something crappy. At the very least the variable aperture will bother you. Ken Rockwell loves it all the same -- http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/18200.htm. However, take what he says with a grain of salt. |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2008 - 12:58 PM |
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Mmmmh I am interested in "the grain of salt" - basically his review is one of the "decision makers" for the 18-200.
The biggest bang for $ with a wide focal range was my wish for the first.
I wanted to tackle the variable max f with the auto iso mode of the D300 (The glasses with constant f seem to be to pricey for the start).
Is there a nice wide zoom to pair with the 70-300 ? The 12-24 looks very interesting except the price. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2008 - 02:39 AM |
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Rockwell is viewed as a clown by many photog. I, personally, think some of his advice is ok, but he certainly does say some pretty stupid things sometimes!
The problem with variable aperture is that you cannot use manual mode on the camera very effectively since the damn aperture changes every time you zoom.
12-24 would be a killer lens, but it is very expensive. You won't get anything that covers the range from 12 to 70, forget about that! Anyway, the 70-300 won't be all that great either... The longer the zoom range, the more tradeoffs the lens will have. Variable aperture, soft at one of the extremes (or even worse, in the middle), etc. The list goes on.
There is no free lunch.
http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/46-nikon--nikkor-aps-c/242-nikkor-af-s -18-200mm-f35-56-g-if-ed-vr-ii-dx-review--test-report
This is another review for that lens... I find the reviews by this site very reliable. |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2008 - 08:25 PM |
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| Post subject: mall at Xietu Lu - impressive! |
Thx for this other opinion.
I saw the mall at Xietu Lu - impressive!
I only asked one dealer for prices (2nd floor directly beside the stair) - the prices seem quite honest. He mentioned there are different versions with different warranties (HK only, international, ...).
Unfortunately I didnīt understand him clear about this point.
I still have this unsure feeling when dealing here.
Which of those dealers do you have good experiences with?
All of the Nikon dealers there would have what I want to buy - now which dealer would be the best?
Is there a Nikon dealer who really takes care of customers rather than pushing a few hundred of lenses a day? |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2008 - 08:39 PM |
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I've bought stuff at the store immediately to the right of the main entrance. I've also bought stuff at the shop past that that is staffed by a bunch of cantonese. The prices at more or less the same, however, I prefer the first shop because they try to rip me off less I have no experience with the Nikon dealers. My cameras & lenses have all been international warrantees; but as I said I could not get service on my camera in Canada. I didn't look into things in great detail, but if the situation is similar with other electronic goods, I could have gotten warrantee service by mailing Canon international.
I suspect with respect to taking care of customers, I think they are all the same. They, by and large, don't. If there is something wrong you go to Canon, or Nikon for any service. I dealt with Canon here in Shanghai, and I think they were very fast & reasonable. |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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May 03, 2008 - 09:05 PM |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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May 05, 2008 - 05:48 PM |
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I bought the starter package at Xiutu Lu/ Luban Lu - many thanks to the helpful advices.
My choice was the 1st dealer to the right 0 floor, who sells Nikon, Sony and a few bags.
The camera is a proper Chinese version with full warranty and support by Nikon.
This one is definitely a huge step up from my older cameras. |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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May 05, 2008 - 09:34 PM |
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ended up going with a nikon d80 kit.
polarized filter, uv filter, 4gb card...7400rmb, warranty all of china, lens warranty worldwide.
xietu lu/lu ban lu was in the 7500-8000 range (and they were the most professional out of all the days of haggling in xujiahui and the train station area). i ended up buying from a close friend's contact in hong kong plaza- he beat the lowest price i negotiated by 100 rmb, he speaks english, he has a history. pm me if you want his info. |
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Meistr_Chef
Seeker
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 40
Status: Offline
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May 05, 2008 - 09:56 PM |
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So I'm about to get the 40D (body only) + grip when I started getting warnings from my local chinese friends about being careful and stuff. Then I stumbled on this thread...which totally bashed the XuJiaHui location I was scouting.
Is that place really shitty, and why? Do they sell refurb stuff at slightly lower than the street price I expect? For example, in the US the 40D body costs like $1050. Then on my first day looking around I bump into this okay looking store in MeiLuoCheng (Metro mall) selling the 40D body for RMB6300 without any bargaining. I'm thinking "wow, is this for real?" but then other sellers seem to be in that ballpark or slighty higher ($6500-$6800).
I haven't been to the Shanghai Railway place (don't even know the name? and exact location) or the XieTu Lu store (again, don't know exact location) but how much better are they than the "decent-looking" stores in XuJiaHui?
Today, I popped into Best Buy but those guys don't even have the 40D in stock, and they only sell the set (body+kit lens). So I wandered around and found another "decent-looking" store in TaiPingYang (Pacific Digital) and the price, again, is like $6800 for the body. They won't negotiate lower, though. Here's their website: www.shzz.com
Are they trustworthy, or should I just forget it and make a trip to these two places (Shanghai Railway place or XieTu Lu)? |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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May 05, 2008 - 10:59 PM |
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woops wrong forum.
good camera, i think. shes happy.
i couldnt figure it out for the life of me though. |
Last edited by bleucheese on May 06, 2008 - 08:52 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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Meistr_Chef
Seeker
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 40
Status: Offline
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May 05, 2008 - 11:12 PM |
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| bleucheese wrote: |
we had an exceptional seafood lunch on yunxiao lu. the resto is recommended prominently on myredstar- they have three outlets on that street and i think we were at the #2 branch. seriously delicious seafood served in a sanitary environment. looking at the pics, we did crab, 2 types of clams, prawns, mussels, shrimp fried rice, morning glory, 5 types of jiao zi, and 4 pitchers of unflitered for 240 rmb.
we also had a great korean meal at "the stone...something...its also listed in myredstar. up in the hills. better korean than i have ever had in shanghai.
we had an absolute shite seafood meal on bar street. sometimes little dingy dirty hole-in-the-walls are exactly the shitholes that they are.
a friend from shanghai who we ran into randomly and whose opinion i trust swears by a cantonese joint around the corner from the hai tian hotel- sorry, dont have the name but if you are in the area, you should be able to find it. "definitely not cheap but excellent" is what he said.
we stayed at a friends resort in shilaoren- same company that made worldwide headlines recently by being the first chinese company to buy a chateaux in bordeaux. good food, great location, great booze, huge rooms with ensuite spa and sauna (there are only 5 in the resort) but next time well stay closer to the action.
shangri la has a decent late night haunt, q bar, and a nice quiet lounge up in building b where we spent saturday night doing some work-free wifi and bottles of stump jump for 270.
we will be staying there next trip.
we had a shitty flight home.
in case you didnt know, qing dao is a hotbed of nationalism. a few days before we arrived, they were burning the french flag outside carrefour. as soon as we arrived at my (local) buddy's resort, he showed off his new computer and then his favorite youtube video...a 10 minute rabid nationalist rant. may 1st there were 7 cop suvs parked outside the empty local carrefour- we walked past on the way to q bar.
and then...
http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/MDForum-viewtopic-t-75638.phtml |
So...how *was* that DSLR, eh? |
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Meistr_Chef
Seeker
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 40
Status: Offline
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May 06, 2008 - 10:54 AM |
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Okay, I think these are the two places you all have been talking about, correct?
1) 上海市闸北区梅园路360号环龙百货三楼
3rd Floor, Huanlong Department Store, No. 360 Meiyuan Road, Zhabei District, Shanghai
Take the subway to Shanghai Railway Station and the place will be on your right if you face the station
2) 上海市泸湾区鲁班路288号上海星光摄影器材城
Shanghai Xingguang Photo Gear Mall, No. 288 Luban Road, Luwan District, Shanghai |
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chingiskhan
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 2244
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 06, 2008 - 11:22 AM |
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| Meistr_Chef wrote: |
| Is that place really shitty, and why? Do they sell refurb stuff at slightly lower than the street price I expect? |
My view is that Xu Jia Hui is more a general electronics mall while Xie Tu is very much more focused and specialised in photography and they tend to know much more about what they are selling.
As for the too good to be true price, I've never worried much about being sold a reconditioned camera - you can usually tell from the package, warranty card etc and I honestly don't think there are many of these floating around in China. More likely they have been sourced and illegally imported so the price is lower.
I'd be suspicious of one store selling lower than everywhere else, but go with your instinct. Some places expect to haggle, while others just come straight out with the best price.
And good choice on the 40D |
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ryu2
Squeeker
Joined: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 12
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
May 06, 2008 - 11:54 AM |
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Just in case people don't know this by now... the cheapest prices for cameras (and computers, electronics, etc.) are almost always in the US of A... not China or anywhere else in Asia -- usually around 30% or so cheaper (even with a worldwide warranty which I highly recommend).
I guess the weak USD does have an bright side. 
So if you're going (back) to the states sometime, better to make purchases there. You can of course, go to stores here in Shanghai and play around to get a feel first. |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
May 06, 2008 - 12:58 PM |
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I had a look at the dealers in Hui Xia Hui and Xietu Lu - the difference was:
Availability of products and will to let test them instantly: Xui xia Hui - bad; Xietu Lu - very good
1st called price body D300: Xui xia Hui - 14.800, 11.000; Xietu Lu - 11.500, 11.800, 11.800
1st called price 18-200 VR: Xui xia Hui - 5.800, 7.200; Xietu Lu - 4.600, 4.800, 4.800
Answering of question about source of camera and warranty and thusty feeling: Xui xia Hui - donīt know, but hey Mr. no Problem, you back here, than no problem (very very vague and bitter feeling while purchasing) Xietu Lu - professional with the possibility of checking the serial no. before purchase (Nikon website on my laptop login with serial and check after warranty - Nikon has a sharp policy regarding grey ware)
My experiences so far with dealers at Hui Xia Hui:
1. bought a ballast for a laptop: called 1st price 350, payed 95, got a burning ballast, returned next day, got money back after mentioning to solve that matter with help of a police officer.
2. Got nicked of 100 RMB while doing a purchase (a thrustworthy looking midaged gentleman introduced himself as the shop owner and cashed the money while the real shop owner was talking to another customer) ONLY TALK AND PAY TO THE PERSON WHO HANDS OUT THE PRODUCT AND WRITES THE RECEIPT!
3. Most prices they call 1st are extremely high - this brakes totally with my understanding of a thrusty business relationship
You never know at Hui Xia Hui, who belongs to the shop and who not - a lot of trickers are around, also watch your bags!
Before going for the first look at the dealers inform yourself precicely about the prices in your homeland, in HK, in China, MRSP. Never go without a precice idea of a price.
Inform yourself about warranty policy ot the producer (grey market,...).
Inform yourself about package and accessories sold with the box.
Check producers Faq, product forums, sites for problems with the product to check after these specifically while purchasing!
I made myself a 2page checklist with all details to watch after with the purchase (gives yourself a sure feeling and shows the dealer that you are serious - a car dealer will not tell you about the repainted car until YOU tell him which the original colour of the car was before the accident marks you can see).
If you are not sure take a friend with you (language).
When it comes to negotiating its always good to have company. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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May 06, 2008 - 01:38 PM |
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^ good summary. However, it can be made a bit simpler Don't go to a furniture shop to buy a sweater. Xu jia hui dealers are, by and large, scum. |
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Meistr_Chef
Seeker
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 40
Status: Offline
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May 06, 2008 - 09:59 PM |
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Thanks, noted.
Today I rush out eagerly after work to the mall at Xietu Lu...and...IT WAS CLOSED BY THE TIME I GOT THERE.
So owned. *sigh* |
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menos
Lurker
Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 31
Status: Offline
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May 07, 2008 - 06:46 AM |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5291
Status: Offline
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May 07, 2008 - 11:03 AM |
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So. menos.. did you buy it? Are you happy with it? Its a good choice if you really take a lots of pics and are serious. Not very light to carry around however and you will probably still use a smaller pocket camera, just so you can keep one with you to take advantage of the opporunities.
Just had a talk with my wife and we will be selling out D100 - great camera.. just cannot dedicate the time to make use of it. http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=classifieds&f ile=detail&cat=23&de=29662 |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3778
Status: Offline
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May 07, 2008 - 11:28 AM |
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| Michael wrote: |
| SNot very light to carry around however and you will probably still use a smaller pocket camera, just so you can keep one with you to take advantage of the opporunities. |
That's something I wonder about .... had an s2 Canon, used it all the time. I mean, ALL the time ... current camera is a tad larger, don't use it as much. Was up in Nanjing last weekend, the people in stores there are not the vultures they are down here in Skankhi so I played with a bunch of dslrs. Not one person tried to get their hands in my pockets, either. Arsehole kept puckering by reflex action but not a single sales person tried to ream ... err, 'help' me. What a shock. I may start to do all my shopping in Nanjing.
Anyhow, if they gave me one i'd probably almost never use it. Those cameras are all as big as a barn. Full-up Nikon F with a motor drive feels tiny compared to those things. They make a Bronica feel comfy.
I wish one of the biggies would build a high-quality version of the zoom fixed-lens cameras for those of us who don't want to pull a trailer just for the camera. |
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