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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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 Posted:
Apr 13, 2008 - 09:07 PM |
 
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| Post subject: buying a dslr |
looking at buying either a nikon d80 or canon xti this week in a bit of a hurry. anyone have a rec for a reputable dealer?
im not knowledgeable enough on cameras to haggle that much (this will be a present) and i would like to have a warranty.
bestbuy is always an option but they always seem to be 10-20% more expensive than the dealers in xjh. and thats big money considering an 8000rmb camera.
thx in advance. |
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MichaelT
Raver
Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 412
Location: Silicon Valley - > Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 12:59 AM |
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I'd still recommend Best Buy, its just so much more comfortable and reliable.
Tell them the prices you were quoted anywhere else and Best Buy will try to match it. Most of the time they can match/beat it and others come close. For me if its close enough, I'd go Best Buy.
I just broke my own rule and brought a 12000rmb AV/amp in Metro and probably saving 500-1000rmb over Best Buy. The seconded I paid my 500rmb deposit to the metro city shop their service attitude changed, and now I regret not going to Best Buy.
For prices go to www.bhphoto.com to reference on low prices from reputable dealers in US. That should be your target price.
Also if you are thinking about the Canon 450D, skip on the kit lense, its worthless. If $ is tight go for the 17-70mm Sigma lens. Its got good performance (not L-lens good but good) and massively cheaper then OEM lenses from Canon. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 09:30 AM |
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I would buy at one of the dealers at xie tu lu/lu ban lu, or the market at the shanghai railway station. There are lots of dealers there, all selling brand new stuff. Go around to 2-3 of the shops and get quotes, but in my experience, the quotes are all within 50 RMB of each other and you cannot get much of a discount (perhaps 100 or 200).
I would never buy at best buy or the xu jia hui market. |
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mrpango
Low Seater
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 3274
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 09:37 AM |
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^^same
Would recommend the xie tu lu/lu ban lu.
Wouldn't compare to bhphoto though - its more realistic to compare to the HK prices on www.ygdragon.net (price list).
I haven't been to the Shanghai railway stataion one yet, but I think I'll have a look some time this week. Need a new lens - 18-55 VR would do me fine (got a quote of 900 RMB from HK plaza). |
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Well, may as well start a blog http://www.sinocracy.com/ - click at your leisure! |
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Mister_happy
Reacher
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 349
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 10:57 AM |
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MichaelT
Raver
Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 412
Location: Silicon Valley - > Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 10:58 AM |
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A 900rmb DSLR lens? You got to be kidding me right? Plastic lens elements?
Just checked the prices of the TAOBAO shop and the L lens I'm interested in is ~$150 more then BH Photo before the Canon rebates that comes once so often.
Best Buy probably don't have the greatest selection of DSL since its a pretty professional type of electronics and the Shanghai Rail mall would for sure be more well stocked with varieties. However I stand by Best Buy on their price/service ratio. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:06 AM |
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Although I've never used it, the lens is apparently very good. http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/Canon%20EOS%20Lens%20Tests/181-canon-e f-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-report--review
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There were a few moments when I considered not to publish the results due to "political correctness" because to date it was a quite absurd thought that such a cheap, or better "affordable", lens can perform this good and I'm sure that some will not believe the findings even though they're supported by the published field images. Anyway, the resolution capabilities of the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS is nothing short of amazing.
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The 50mm 1.8 is also around that price, and is very well regarded. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:07 AM |
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taobao prices are terrible as published. You know you can negotiate with many of the taobao vendors right? The prices in the market are much cheaper... |
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leidelaohu
Wonder Wit
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 3778
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:09 AM |
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| dfoo wrote: |
| I would never buy at best buy or the xu jia hui market. |
Agree on mei luo chen ... that place has become worse than xiang yang was. There are 2 or 3 reasonable stores there but otherwise, Leavenworth would be more pleasant. |
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Mister_happy
Reacher
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 349
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:29 AM |
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With Canon Lenes you need the L Series, the one with the RED Line around the barrel. Look at the F4 series and not the F2.8, the F4 is lighter to carry around, its half the wieght of the F2.8. The F4 series is also small so takes up less room in your bag!
If you want to print large size pictures past A4-A3 you need a GOOD lens.
With Digital cameras you can change the ISO speed from 100-200-400-800-1600 at the click of a button. Also with IS you can shoot at slower shutter speeds then before using film. The formula over 1/focal lenght no loger applies.
I am saving my pocket money for the Canon F4 70-200mm IS so if you see this lens at a cheap price let me know! |
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MichaelT
Raver
Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 412
Location: Silicon Valley - > Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 12:01 PM |
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Yeah I'm eyeing the 70-200mm L lens also.
There are 4 of them and I'm leaning towards the f/4 and the f/2.8 IS version. The f/2.8 is much heavier and more expensive, but maybe its better to go all the way in this sense.
Careful with playing the ISO too much. I've been told the effect on "graining" isn't as bad as film but at 1600 its gonna show. |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 14, 2008 - 12:08 PM |
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F4 IS is a waste IMO. You can't really use F4 inside, and IS isn't all that useful outside. 70-200mm F4 L is a great len, and relatively inexpensive. There are some used ones at the xie tu lu, lu ban lu market in great shape. |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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Apr 14, 2008 - 03:39 PM |
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thanks for the info particularly on mei luo chen. it was at the top of my list after best buy but i guess ill head to xietu lu and make a purchase.
been reading that the kit lens that comes with the canon xti is definitely not the way to go. any info? and can anyone justify the extra 1500rmb for the nikon d80 over the xti?
thx |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 12:03 AM |
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Forget a zoom lens unless you are willing to spend $$$.
I have fairly decent equipment, and I still find that I use the primes I have more than anything else.
If you want a decent camera and don't want to spend that much, I strongly recommend the Nikon D40 @ 3500 for the kit. Spend another few hundred for a 50mm 1.8 and its a good starter camera set. If you have more money get the D40x, but its not really that much more of a difference.
Remember, glass is always worth more than bodies. You'll keep a good lens forever, and the camera body... obsolete within a few years.
If you have your heart set on a D80, then get one, but I'd save the money and get better lenses myself.
What model is the XTi? the 450d?
I'd recommend the 40d over that any day of the week.
I've just spent 7000 on a hand held camera (not even an SLR), and am about to pimp it out with another few $$$ in kit..
What are your reasons for your choices?
@Dfoo - F4 is usable inside, just not with a piece of crap CCD. You'll need something that performs well at ISO400 up.
That said, money doesn't always mean goodness. The Canon 5D performs worse than the 30/40D in high ISO for example.
Xie Tu Lu or the Railway Station are the two main places to go to for Camera Equipment.
My current kit includes:
Sigma DP1, Canon 30D, 50mm 1.4, 20mm 2.8, 135 2.0L, 24-70 2.8L, 580EX II Flash
Lawrence -
Photo's -> www.jpgmag.com/people/sheedl |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 07:02 AM |
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I have very good equipment, and F4 is crap indoors  I also disagree that 5d is worse at high iso than 30d/40d. |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 10:42 AM |
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I deign to disagree on that. I have access to both, and @ ISO800, the 5D *is* noisier.
Its also more susceptible to dust on the CCD. More-so than the non full frame camera's.
The 5D *is* a good full frame camera though, and although I'm still waiting for a 5D Mark II or 7D for what seems like years now (heh, it IS years), I haven't regretted getting a 30d in the interim.
We are diverging from the topic slightly though.  |
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Mister_happy
Reacher
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 349
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 11:31 AM |
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Well I am going for the Canon 70-200 F4 with IS, its abount half the weight of the F2.8 version. If you are carrying your lenes around with you all day the F2.8 are big and heavy! Basically I want 2lenes and one body, plus a 1.4 or 1.6 converter, to fit in a small backpack. SO I cant carry around a big bag full of prime lenes, I wish I could!
The Canon 40D uses the same electonics as the latest model EOS 1D the professional Baby! So it does give a better image to noise ratio compared to the 5D, at the moment. But they will improve the 5D soon.
You can use F4 inside, but you may have to use a slower shutter speed, that is where the IS system comes into its own. It allows you to hand hold 2 stops lower then not using it.
Also I dont use full frame any more, which is an old format and film is dead anyway!
Buy good glass! |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 01:53 PM |
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F4 @ ISO800 indoors, no flash, at La Saleya yesterday with my new unused Sigma DP1
Perfectly acceptable image quality at F4. That said, its a foveon sensor, so the color reproduction is a little better than on the Canon or Nikon CCD's |
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mrpango
Low Seater
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 3274
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 02:09 PM |
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Well its not unused anymore! 
I get by fine with my Nikon d50. Got banned from buying any new lenses though - currently have the 50mm 1.8, a Sigma 18-50 (rubbish one), and 70-300 G Nikon. Wanted to get a single walkabout lens for the upcoming trip to Beijing and Xi'an, but will just take the 18-50 and 70-300... oh well. |
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Well, may as well start a blog http://www.sinocracy.com/ - click at your leisure! |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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Apr 16, 2008 - 04:20 PM |
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| Quote: |
| I strongly recommend the Nikon D40 @ 3500 for the kit |
ive actually read alot of negative things about the d40-d60....all basically saying if you have nikon lenses and want a dslr, go with another model, if you dont have nikon lenses and want a dslr, go with another nikon model OR another entry-level dslr (canon, sony, pentax) which will all have more features and 'better lens compatibility' at a lower price than the d40-d60 models. this is just my research on forums etc.- i honestly dont know dik about cameras. this is a gift for someone who is ready for a first dslr but probably wont be buying more than 1 more lens than the camera will come with anytime soon.
just got back from the xietu/lu ban lu joint.
basically im looking at a nikon d80 kit with uv filter, polarized filter and 2gb (rec from a friend) for @ 7500 or a canon xsi (450d) for @ 4800 body only and an yet to be determined lens (i hear the canon kit lens is junk)
some of these stores are quoting 2 prices: 'all of china warranty' or 'only in-store warranty' (@500rmb cheaper)
-any thoughts on this warranty scheme. the person who will be receiving this camera will not be leaving shanghai within one next year.
-any recs for a decent all purpose lens for that xsi...around 1500rmb.
-anyone ever check out the pentax k10? weather-resistant...seems solid.
i got to buy this thing by friday.
and id like to come in under 7000 if possible.
thanks for any help. |
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mrpango
Low Seater
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 3274
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 05:18 PM |
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'only in-store' will mean that its been smuggled in from Hong Kong, hence the lower price
1500 RMB won't really get you a decent lens, maybe around 2500 ish (could be less) should get something nice like a Sigma 17-70 or Tamron 17-50, both which are decent enough for snaps. |
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Well, may as well start a blog http://www.sinocracy.com/ - click at your leisure! |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 05:33 PM |
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With respect to full frame -- I guess you don't want to shoot wide then? Or ... you want to go back on your earlier advice and buy a non-L lens? And film is dead? Ahem, whatever you think my good man!
BC, I posted this link earlier http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/Canon%20EOS%20Lens%20Tests/181-canon-e f-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-report--review
In a nutshell the NEW kit lens is probably pretty decent. So, I'd go for the XTi and the NEW kit lens (not the old) and let the buyer buy whatever they like after. The old kit lens is also perfectly servicible! Personally, I've never owned it, but my friend has a very decent copy and the pictures that he has taken with it are beautiful. Keep in mind that there are many lens snobs... |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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Apr 16, 2008 - 05:35 PM |
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| computersolutions wrote: |
...
Perfectly acceptable image quality at F4. That said, its a foveon sensor, so the color reproduction is a little better than on the Canon or Nikon CCD's |
That is hardly 70mm, let alone 200mm! Nor is the venue very dark... |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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Apr 16, 2008 - 05:40 PM |
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| Quote: |
| 'only in-store' will mean that its been smuggled in from Hong Kong, hence the lower price |
i figured as much. same as nyc 'grey market' items.
in nyc, you definitely do not want to buy electronics in any of those grey market shops- as soon as you walk out the door you are dead to them, receipt or no receipt.
same thing here? |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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Apr 16, 2008 - 05:44 PM |
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| Quote: |
| I'd go for the XTi and the NEW kit lens (not the old) and let the buyer buy whatever they like after. |
mahalo for the precise input. the kind i like. |
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