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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
May 01, 2008 - 03:31 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Foreign children need to apply permit entering int'l school? |
I am a foreigner married to a Chinese citizen. We have 2 children and both are not born in China and holding a foreign passport. Recently, we was trying to enrol them in the international school. We face a problem that we need to apply a permit from the ministry of education as I don't have a working permit. The chances of approval is 50%, no promise. They say the international school is only for expat. working here. If I enrol them in the local school with international division, I don't have to apply for that "permit". Does anyone here have this difficulty?? |
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freedelia
Rocker
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 658
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May 01, 2008 - 04:10 PM |
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I think it is easier to pay a company to issue you a work permit. |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 04:28 PM |
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This rule also caught many of us school managers by surprise. Yes, the SEB's rules state that only a foreign passport holder with a work permit can apply for international schools here. In fact, I understand (though I did not confirm) that the work permit has to be issued in Shanghai. This is going to impact our enrolment.  |
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Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 04:54 PM |
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I get so upset after searching for the school we want now ...I don't want my children to study in the local school. He has no confident in his Chinese language. It's part of my fault cos' we have been giving him the English environment. When I was doing his homework, he would ask me : I thought you say the Math was in English???. |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 04:56 PM |
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The person who pick up the calls for enquiry about this matter is very very very rude and impatient. |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 05:00 PM |
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| freedelia wrote: |
| I think it is easier to pay a company to issue you a work permit. |
Do you have any recommendation???? |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 05:08 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Foreign children need to apply permit entering int'l sch |
| janice3022000 wrote: |
| They say the international school is only for expat. working here. If I enrol them in the local school with international division, I don't have to apply for that "permit". |
Wait a minute, if you can still enrol them in a local school with an international division, why not try SMIC at Pudong? They run the Californian curriculum. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 05:23 PM |
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I stay in Puxi. But I will still try to apply for the permit to enter the int'l school.
I know SMIC is good but it's too far away.. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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May 01, 2008 - 06:47 PM |
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| StMichael wrote: |
| This rule also caught many of us school managers by surprise. Yes, the SEB's rules state that only a foreign passport holder with a work permit can apply for international schools here. In fact, I understand (though I did not confirm) that the work permit has to be issued in Shanghai. This is going to impact our enrolment. |
Is this a new ruling? When we came to Shanghai, my husband's work permit was issued in Beijing and no one even bothered to asked to see our passports in the int schools. Just a couple months ago, the school sent out a form requesting for visa/passport details of the children but no one asked for a copy of the passports yet. Besides, we just got our visas renewed so the old info is no longer valid.
I have friends who has their work permit from Suzhou and their children are studying in int schools here. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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May 01, 2008 - 06:52 PM |
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| janice3022000 wrote: |
| freedelia wrote: |
| I think it is easier to pay a company to issue you a work permit. |
Do you have any recommendation???? |
A word of caution - China is tightenting up on these kind of visa/permit isssues and if caught, deportation is the only answer if not including fine/jail time!
I would strongly suggest that you try applying to the ministry of education, at least exhaust that 50% chance first. |
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freedelia
Rocker
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 658
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 06:57 PM |
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I didn't mean pay the visa companies. I meant just ask your husband's company or a friend's company to "employ" you -- that is you need to sign a contract with them and then reimburse them for everything they spend on you getting a work permit. No big deal and not really illegal. I am actually still on the work permit from my previous job, that I left over 6 months ago. |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 07:08 PM |
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| hautumncloud wrote: |
I have friends who has their work permit from Suzhou and their children are studying in int schools here. |
So that'd mean that as long as they've got a work permit, it'd work. Good. |
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Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5291
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 08:19 PM |
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You don't need a work permit ( though you do if you are working). There should be a way to apply for a resident permit for you and your children. Of course should and reality are two different things here. You should have a Z visa ( resident) as dependents. Your husbands company will need to help. It does not allow you to work, but it should allow you to get into any school, if that is what they say they need. So what kind of visa do you have now? |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 09:06 PM |
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Michael, her husband is Chinese...
And from what I understand from SEB's brief to the schools, the visa alone is no longer enough. You must have a work permit. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com
Last edited by StMichael on May 01, 2008 - 09:11 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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May 01, 2008 - 09:10 PM |
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^ But the wife is foreigner and both the children hold foreign passports, so the wife & children must have some kind of resident permit/visa, no? |
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underh20
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 9900
Location: EOA Seminar
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May 01, 2008 - 09:24 PM |
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| hautumncloud wrote: |
| ^ But the wife is foreigner and both the children hold foreign passports, so the wife & children must have some kind of resident permit/visa, no? |
They would have a visa -- likely L or F. A visa is a totally different and not a resident permit.
And even if they go to Chinese local schools, they'd have to pay unless the children have local hukou. Of course they wouldn't have to pay much, but still it is not free. |
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بارك الله ، بارك الله |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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May 01, 2008 - 11:44 PM |
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I DON'T PUT TOO MUCH HOPE ON THE 50%CHANCE. THE WORST CHOICE IS TO BRING MY CHILDREN BACK HOME WHILE MY HUSBAND STILL IN SHANGHAI. |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2008 - 12:13 AM |
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I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR ALL THESE COMPLICATED PERMIT TO STUDY IN THE INT'L SCHOOL? |
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janice3022000
Lurker
Joined: May 01, 2008
Posts: 22
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 02, 2008 - 12:19 AM |
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| hautumncloud wrote: |
| ^ But the wife is foreigner and both the children hold foreign passports, so the wife & children must have some kind of resident permit/visa, no? |
My children and me are holding L visa and as per the immigration official, we need to stay in Shanghai for 5 years continuously in order to get a permanant resident permit. Anyway, we don't intend to apply. We stay here cos' my husband is here. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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May 02, 2008 - 07:43 AM |
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| janice3022000 wrote: |
| I DON'T PUT TOO MUCH HOPE ON THE 50%CHANCE. THE WORST CHOICE IS TO BRING MY CHILDREN BACK HOME WHILE MY HUSBAND STILL IN SHANGHAI. |
| Quote: |
Posted: May 02, 2008 - 12:13 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR ALL THESE COMPLICATED PERMIT TO STUDY IN THE INT'L SCHOOL?
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janice, may be worth a try to obtain the permit, nothing to lose there, at least there is still a 50% chance. Do you know how one would go about applying for the permit or would the int school do it on your behalf?
| Quote: |
StMichael
Posted: May 01, 2008 - 09:06 PM
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Michael, her husband is Chinese...
And from what I understand from SEB's brief to the schools, the visa alone is no longer enough. You must have a work permit. |
St Mike, is this new ruling? - to have work permit in order for children to attend int school. What is the logic behind that - is the Chinese government trying to "help" with cutting down the wait lists in int schools? |
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happyhere
Seeker
Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 47
Status: Offline
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May 02, 2008 - 09:00 AM |
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This seems really odd. There are so many people who have work permits from companies outside of Shanghai-- especially Suzhou -- but who live in Shanghai and whose children attend international schools here who could theoretically be affected by this regulation. The problem will only get worse when more people use hgh-speed trains to commute within the Hangzhou-Suzhou-Shanghai region.
Janice I would apply for the permit. A 50% chance means you have a possibility of getting approval.
But first do some research. Find out what the process is and who is responsible for approving. Your husband may have contacts who can help get you this info.
I would go to the SEB (as a family and with a well connected Shanghai friend) and try to speak with the hghest level person you can who is in charge of this matter in order to get clarification and help. Explain your situation and why it is best for your children to go to an international school (eg. educationally an Intl school's approach is more suitable; socially and emotionally your children will have an easier time adjusting because cultural familiarity; linguistically they will be able to fit in; logistically your family does not plan to setlle permanently here but rather remain for just a few years so they need to have an international school experience so they might better fit in to a school once they leave China; etc. ).
In the very nicest way let them know that you never expected that your children's right to an (approprite) education WOULD BE DENIED when you came to China with your Chinese husband. Also if your children are English-speaking have them accompany you and have them speak lots of English and no Chinese when they are there and of course be on their best behavior. The person you speak with may pass on their impression that your children are really better suited for an internatonal school environment.
We sent our children to local and international schools and found them both appropriate and good at different stages. But that is a different issue, and every parents' decision about what is the most appropriate education is unique to their own situation.
But if your chuldren are foreign nationals, here legally, they should have the right to access international schooling if you are willing to pay the fees.
Don't be too scared away by the permit issue. You really don't know why such a regulation exists or is being enforced now. Perhaps it is to keep parents from dumping children in Shanghai at international schools (and livig with ayis or non-family members) when the parents are out of the country or in another area of China working. Once you find out what is behind it, you will have more ways of approaching this.
Do what you have to do and believe that you will encounter reasonable people along the way who will understand your situation. And when you don't, always look for another way.
The best of luck.
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 02, 2008 - 10:17 AM |
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| janice3022000 wrote: |
| I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR ALL THESE COMPLICATED PERMIT TO STUDY IN THE INT'L SCHOOL? |
Happyhere has indirectly pointed out the reason that we school managers have been suspecting - it is to ensure that foreigners working here either register their business, or work with a registered business (who'd hire them and give them the work permit).
And yes, we do have cases in the past of parents who fly in and out of Korea or Taiwan, and who placed their children with us, under the supervision of either an ayi (yikes) or in boarding schools (YCIS). |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 02, 2008 - 10:22 AM |
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| hautumncloud wrote: |
| St Mike, is this new ruling? - to have work permit in order for children to attend int school. What is the logic behind that - is the Chinese government trying to "help" with cutting down the wait lists in int schools? |
I am not too sure if it's a new rule, or if it was an rule that is only recently enforced (those of us who've been in China long enough will know what I mean). All I know is that SEB has informed us of this rule, to take effect from the next academic year.
I mentioned a possibility in the post above this. Another possibility, with the recent rules on allowing local public schools to take in foreign children (no longer restricted to just the international divisions or to private schools), is that the government is eyeing the "lucrative" foreign education market.
Everything are just guesses right now. All we know is that there is a rule, and we are expected to conform to it. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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StMichael
Ranter
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 02, 2008 - 10:24 AM |
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| janice3022000 wrote: |
| I DON'T PUT TOO MUCH HOPE ON THE 50%CHANCE. THE WORST CHOICE IS TO BRING MY CHILDREN BACK HOME WHILE MY HUSBAND STILL IN SHANGHAI. |
Janice, if it may comfort you - I do have pupils whose parents are green card holders (but with Chinese passports) successfully apply to the SEB to send their kid to an international school (mine!). I am not too sure what the chances will be like with the new rulings in place, but do give a try. The worst you can get is a rejection. |
_________________
Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 912
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May 02, 2008 - 11:46 AM |
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| StMichael wrote: |
And yes, we do have cases in the past of parents who fly in and out of Korea or Taiwan, and who placed their children with us, under the supervision of either an ayi (yikes) or in boarding schools (YCIS). |
Oh yes, I forgot about that part.
When we first visited int schools here in SH late 2006, a relatively new int school told us of their plans to open a boarding school division as the demand is there for some foreign school students. And their plan was to accept boarding school students from age of 6, yes...6!! 
And in my children's int school in Beijing, there were countless time I hear the sec principal who moan and groan about not being able to locate the parents of some troublesome students, the only person available was the ayi & driver.
So sad. |
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